Mic Drop

A New Model (ft. Tiffani Bova)

Episode Summary

In this week’s conversation, we explore a completely different economic model for professional speaking, one that involves a full-time paycheck, benefits and stock options. Plus, we take a look at three hacks that helped Tiffani Bova scale her speaking business, the core responsibility of a keynote speaker, and the innovative approach that Tiffani used to write her two bestselling books.

Episode Notes

A New Model (ft. Tiffani Bova)

Where innovation and self-awareness meet, you’ll find Tiffani Bova

OPENING QUOTE:

“I stood up in my home office, I hit record, I gave the keynote about what I wanted to say about customer experience. I transcribed the keynote, and that was the beginning of my chapter. That's how I started writing the book.”

—Tiffani Bova

GUEST BIO:

Tiffani Bova is the Global Growth Evangelist at Salesforce and the author of two Wall Street Journal bestselling books, The Experience Mindset and Growth IQ. She's also the host of the top-ranked podcast What's Next with Tiffani Bova. She's ranked on the current Thinkers50 list of the world's top management thinkers, has been named one of the top 100 women in tech, and is considered one of the top 10 influencers on the future of work.

Links:

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[8:21] - Developing Your Skills

How Tiffani and other speakers go from “first draft” to full-fledged speaking masters

Want to improve as a speaker? Tiffani offers a clear three-step approach. Start by watching recordings of yourself, both with the audio on and the audio off. You’ll notice things about your mannerisms, engagement, and message that you don’t catch while you’re delivering in the moment.

Next, study the great — not to copy, but to observe and pick up ideas to improve your artistic choices.

Finally, trade the sessions summary for detailed audience feedback. This is a great way to get outside perspective to fuel progress.

[13:33] - A New Model for Speaking

How Tiffani is breaking the mold for what a career speaker looks like

Instead of working as a freelancer selling speeches for cash, Tiffani has a full-time job with Salesforce — yet still is every bit the thought leader and speaker of others at the top of this field. She’s managed to leverage her passions and skills into a new way of being a speaker, all while doing the things she loves most.

[26:43] - Writing for Non-Writers

How Tiffani wrote a book by crafting keynotes

While Tiffani had a desire to write a book filled with her ideas, writing in that form doesn’t come naturally to her. So instead of trying to fit herself into that mold, she stuck to what she knew — keynotes. She wrote ten keynotes about topics that were important to her, and those scripts became the basis for her first book. The rest is best-selling history.

[33:30] - For New Speakers

Tiffani’s advice for speakers on the rise

In addition to Tiffani’s three-step process for improving keynotes, she offers more advice for aspiring and building speakers. Seek out feedback from trusted voices, even those whom you think may not have time for you or even know who you are. You may be surprised.

However, seeking feedback comes with a part two — you have to actually be willing to accept and consider that feedback. It doesn’t mean you have to take every bit of criticism to heart, but it does mean being open to growing from the feedback you receive.

RESOURCES:

[0:45] Tiffani’s Books
[38:42] Nancy Duarte on Storytelling

Follow Tiffani Bova:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

Episode Transcription

Tiffani Bova:

I stood up in my home office, I hit record, I gave the keynote about what I wanted to say about customer experience. I transcribed the keynote, and that was the beginning of my chapter. That's how I started writing the book.

Josh Linkner:

Hey Mic Drop enthusiasts, Josh Linkner here. Delighted to be bringing you season two of Mic Drop. I love our conversations with speakers and industry leaders alike, so we can unpack the industry and we can all perform better. Let's get after it and get better together.

Maria Cairo:

Mic Drop is brought to you by ImpactEleven, the most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers to get on bigger stages at higher fees with greater impact, faster. They're not just elevating an industry that we all know and love, they work with thousands of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses. Accelerating time success, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field.

To learn more about the ImpactEleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impacteleven.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

On today's episode of Mic Drop, we explore an entirely new economic model for professional speakers, and no one better to help illuminate the path than the legendary Tiffani Bova. Tiffani is the Global Growth Evangelist at Salesforce and the author of two Wall Street Journal bestselling books, The Experience Mindset and Growth IQ. She's also the host of the top-ranked podcast What's Next with Tiffani Bova. She's ranked on the current Thinkers50 list of the world's top management thinkers, has been named one of the top 100 women in tech, and is considered one of the top 10 influencers on the future of work.

In today's conversation, we explore a completely different economic model for professional speaking, one that involves a full-time paycheck, benefits and stock options. We take a look at three hacks that helped Tiffani scale quickly from a decent amateur speaker to one of the best in the business. We discuss the core responsibility of a keynote speaker, and quick hint, it's not just the transfer of knowledge. We also cover the innovative approach that Tiffani used to write her two bestselling books. I know you'll love today's conversation, learning how Tiffani created her own path to speaking mastery and success.

Tiffani Bova, welcome to Mic Drop.

Tiffani Bova:

Josh, I'm so thrilled to be here. It's so great to see you.

Josh Linkner:
You and I met easily a decade ago, I think behind the stage at some event, and I felt very connected to you. I felt like we became fast friends, and I've been admiring you and your career and your body of work ever since. Take us back. How long have you actually been speaking at a professional level? How many years have you been in this game?

Tiffani Bova:

We met, it was Vegas, it was an IBM event. You brought up the band. I remember it well. I sat backstage with you for an hour picking your brain about maybe I wanted to write my first book. I always remember that conversation. It's been 17 years now, a little more than 17 years. It was definitely a crawl, accidental speaking career, if you will, because it's not my day job, it's part of my day job. But it's been 17 years.

Josh Linkner:
Can you help us understand, one of the things we talk about a lot on this podcast is the notion that there's not a way to be a professional speaker, there's multiple ways. If you think about earning a living sharing ideas from the stage, you are absolutely in that category, even though you're structured a little different. But before we get to that, how did you accidentally land on stages making such an important impact in people's businesses and lives?

Tiffani Bova:

I've been in and around technology for almost 30 years. I was a practitioner, individual quota-carrying sales rep, and then moved up the ranks. My last corporate job in that way, I was running a division of a Fortune 500 company, and then I was burnt out, so I needed a break. I always say I needed to get off the Ferris wheel, I needed to stop spinning. So I got a job at a company called Gartner, which is the world's largest analyst and consulting firm for tech companies and for the tech industry.

As part of that role, I would write research, and then I'd get asked by clients to present internally in their organization to a handful of people, and it might be a consulting day, if you will. Then it became like, "Would you speak at one of our customer events," or a partner event similar to what I met Josh at, at an IBM event. That started out slow, because I wasn't a speaker in that way.

I remember it vividly. It was a Microsoft conference, it was in Houston, Texas. It was one of my first larger keynotes, and there was maybe 250 people in the room. I was petrified. I prepared, I had a three ring binder. I put it on the table, I didn't move from the podium. I flipped the pages. I was super stiff. There was no personality, I have to say. And that was the very first time... It was recorded, and they asked me if I wanted a copy of the recording, and I watched it and I went, "Yikes, that was terrible." So, it began my journey. That presentation began my journey of, "Hold on a second. If I'm going to have to start to do this more...," I enjoyed it, but I just felt ill-prepared, I guess.

Each year I did five or 10, and then it became a year, and then it became 15, 20, and then it become 25, 30. I was there for a decade, and the stages got bigger, and then it became international, and then it became more broad topics, and it wasn't 10 minutes, it was 45 minutes. It was executive fireside chats. All of a sudden it got big, if you will. I think my last year I'd probably topped out around 75 that I had done through the course of a year. Then that was a decade. I left, and now I'm with Salesforce.

Then it was kind of the same thing. I started out doing a few, now all of a sudden I wasn't an analyst anymore. How was it going to work inside Salesforce? Now during COVID I think was the height of doing them. I was doing, I'm sure you were as well, Josh, virtually three or four a day, almost three or four days a week. It was hundreds. I think it was 250 in 2020, and I think it was-

Josh Linkner:

Wow.

Tiffani Bova:

... well over 300 in 2021, so it's now been well over a thousand. But it was this accidental, and then I really enjoyed it, and then I said, "I have to get better at it." Then as I get better at it, I really wanted to challenge myself to do new and different things. So I'd say this: it's been 17 years, and it's one of my favorite parts of my job for sure.

Josh Linkner:

So cool. One of the things I love about it, and I appreciate your being a bit vulnerable in that, that a lot of times people see an artist, and I consider both of us performing artists to a degree, at the height of their field. They see Tiffani and they're like, "Wow, I could never do that. She has done a thousand keynotes. She's this total badass." Taking us back to Houston and saying you were scared, you watched the tape, you didn't like what you saw, I think that's really true, and that's how artistry evolves really. There's one great quote that I've always loved that the one thing all terrific authors have in common is lousy first drafts. It's not that people are just divinely inspired and you showed up to be this brilliant orator, it's a skill. It's a toolkit that you developed over time and got to be very, very good at. So, thank you for sharing that.

What did you do maybe along the way to continue to boost your skills? You mentioned you didn't like what you saw in that first recording. Well, none of us, by the way, like what we see anytime we record. Even today, I'm sure you and I see that. But you've gotten infinitely better, I'm sure. You're terrific on stage now. What did you do from a stagecraft standpoint to get from that point in Houston to where you are today?

Tiffani Bova:

Great question, and this was my secret sauce. Once I saw that first one, I consistently asked for a copy of the recording. Not to use it publicly, but just for my own viewing pleasure, if you will, and I did two things. One, I would watch it and not listen; I would turn off the volume and I would watch. Was I always touching my hair? Were my hands in my pocket? Was I fixing my shirt? Was I fidgety? Was I pacing? Was I staring at the clicker? Was I not looking at the audience? Just visually, what was I doing? Was I buttoned up, or was I expansive in what I was communicating visually? Then I would listen and not watch. Was I talking at a monotone at a really fast pace, and I wasn't putting any personality in what I was saying? Was I pulling people into how I was describing something? Was I yelling when it was really... Was I talking softly? So, now I was paying attention to the listen and not the watch.

Then I said, "Who do I enjoy watching, listening to?" A Josh; it could be an Oprah Winfrey, or it could be whomever. You have orators like an Oprah or a Barack Obama. That is a very specific speaking style that is not mine, so I didn't want to mimic what they were doing, but I wanted to hear the cadence, the tone, the volume, the lean in, that kind of stuff. Then I would watch people interview people. Who was a great interviewer? Because I was now interviewing people. I'm not a journalist. I had to learn how to interview, and then I had to learn how to be interviewed. Josh asks a question, don't answer for seven minutes, answer for 20 seconds. Right now is a little longer of a response because we're telling this story, but get media trained, really hone your craft. I am a student of my profession. I would continue to do this. I would do it consistently, especially in those first 5, 6, 7, 8 years, and I started to notice I was getting better.

The third thing I did was I would ask for feedback about my presentation to the audience, which I did that day when I met Josh. Because I would always get asked, "Can I have your slides?" I bartered and I'd say, "You can have a PDF of my slides if you give me feedback on the presentation. And I don't mean, 'Hey, the suit was great, the shoes were great.' I don't mean that. I mean feedback on content or the style in which I gave the presentation." So, after each keynote, maybe 15 or 20% of the audience would ask for the deck. Regardless of the size of the audience, you can do the math. If it's a thousand people, I'd get a hundred emails.

It was pretty good. I got real-time feedback on, "The slide was too busy, couldn't read this," or, "You said something I didn't understand," or, "You were talking really fast," or, "You used acronyms that I didn't know," or whatever. Or, "You used only US-based examples," and it might have been an international audience, or I used an American ism which doesn't translate. Little things like that, now I'm hyperaware. Don't use isms, don't use only US-based companies. If you say a term that maybe the audience doesn't all know, define it. So, now I'm getting this real-time, and I was also getting examples. "This is what we do at our company." I was getting real-time stories I could now weave in, and I would get feedback. "It was like you were sitting in our last meeting. It was like you heard everything we were talking about. How do you do that?"

That's how I did it. I would do those three things consistently. And by the way, I don't do the watch and listen as much as I used to, but I still do it, especially when I maybe want to try something out, or it's new content or it's a new stage setup or anything like that, then I'm really keen to do one of those three things.

Josh Linkner:

Tiffani, you blew my mind with that. It's so, so strong, and the mark of a real professional. You see people up on stage, they look natural and we think, "They're just talented or whatever." But it's those like you that are doing the work; that's the real professional. And I love the way you broke it down. You watched the video, both audio only and visual only, to isolate aspects of the performance and refine them. I love the way that you study other masters, not to plagiarize or copy them, but to learn and to absorb their work and help you develop your own voice.

And I absolutely love how you get feedback. That's one of the things we don't get often as keynote speakers. You hear one of two things. You either hear, "Oh my God, that was the best speech I've ever heard in 30 years," or you hear nothing. You don't hear, "Your second story fell a little flat, and that slide there, it was a little crowded." You hacked a way to get to that. That's brilliant, and I really appreciate you sharing that. It's so fricking cool.

I want to shift gears here. We talked about performance, and again, you've done a magical job and you're one of the best of the best, but you have a really interesting business model for those of us that are professional speakers. We often think, and in a way my speaking business has grown, is that we go out there, we sell speeches for money. It could be through a bureau, it could be direct, but someone pays you X dollars and you show up and deliver a speech.

You are earning your living as a thought leader and an evangelist, but in a really different way. I'd love for you to, whatever you're comfortable sharing, how that works. You are the chief, am I getting this right, global growth officer for Salesforce.com, and you spend a lot of time speaking, but you're not getting paid directly from an audience to speak. Yet to a degree you are employed, you earn a very nice living, and one of the core things that you do is speak. Can you help us unpack that? Because that's a really compelling and different model that others may want to embrace as well.

Tiffani Bova:

I'm the Global Growth Evangelist at Salesforce. It's a full-time job. What Salesforce did was they created a position for me in many ways to replicate what I was doing at Gartner for Salesforce and our clients: advising, writing, thought leadership, blogs, content, podcasts, keynoting at Salesforce events or doing customer roundtables or intimate executive dinners, and then doing the same for our customers and our partners. And it may be in the topic; I may be speaking at a sales conference, and it's just a sales conference for let's say strategic account managers. There's an organization that focuses on them. So, it's in my lane. Obviously I was a salesperson, and I work at Salesforce. I've advised companies on how to be better at selling.

So, it might be an industry event. The slide deck is in Salesforce branded content, and I'm out talking about trends in the market, impact to the way digital may change the way companies grow, the power of customer experience, either one of my books that has a lot that will lend itself to a lot of what we do. It's a halo effect of I am not talking about our products, I am not talking about the speeds and feeds of Sales Cloud or Marketing Cloud or Service cloud. I'm talking about why technology is important to small, medium and enterprise businesses. Why should they be thinking differently?

So, I'm consuming all kinds of data points from the McKinseys and Accentures and Bains of the world to the Gartners and Forresters and IDCs to our own research, to my research, to conversations, and I'm pulling that together in a story arc that would inspire people to think differently and evangelize the art of what's possible with "technology" today. I use technology in air quotes, because it isn't just about tech: it's about culture, it's about process, it's about organization, it's about products. I can go wide or narrow and deep.

So, it allows me... There's a handful of us. There was 12, there's I think six or seven now, and the majority of us are ex-analysts as well. One is a former CIO and CMO. Our role is really to be those storytellers of what is possible. We get this wonderful opportunity and platform by which we can share this kind of information with a huge brand behind us, and it's just part of what we do for our job. It's not the only thing we do, but I am an individual contributor, nobody reports to me. So it's a good portion of what I do is really that thought leadership, and then helping sales and customers be successful using our technology.

So, it's really a balance between the two. But speaking is a part of, not the only thing I do. Sometimes I'm not speaking at all for a couple of weeks or a month or two. Sometimes I'm speaking every week once or twice a week. It's an ebb and a flow of what the company needs me to do.

Josh Linkner:

I just want to spend a couple of minutes unpacking that because it's a really interesting model, and it's not as common, but I think it will continue to evolve and I think there'll be more opportunities in this arena. Let's say you compared to a, quote-unquote, "ordinary" speaker who is a freelancer and goes out there and gets booked and gets paid for their work, their economic model is different, because you're a full-time employee of Salesforce. Yet at the same time, you're doing both really similar things. You're not just a shill for Salesforce, as you pointed out, you're a thought leader. You've written books, you're creating original content, you're delivering with majesty from stages and podcasts and other things. You are challenging people to think about the world differently. You are every bit the thought leader that someone who's a freelance speaker is, no question about it. No question about it.

But the interesting thing is that the economic model is different. You are employed by Salesforce and obviously driving tremendous benefit from them. They're lucky to have you. And for you, it's a little different economic model because it's more steady. It's not as up and down as those of us that are freelancers. Do you see that trend evolving? Do you think there's going to be more and more opportunities where someone can be gainfully employed by a larger company and still really for the most part be a full-time thought leader?

Tiffani Bova:

I'm going to exaggerate a little bit, but once a week I will get an email, a direct message, a LinkedIn DM, a Twitter message or whatever message, "I want to do what you're doing. How did you do that?" "I want to pitch my own company." "I'm working somewhere, but I want to be this evangelist role." I was not the first; I think Guy Kawasaki was the first evangelist at Apple. He claims that that's what it is. And full circle, he hired Mark Benioff, who's our CEO, for his first job. So, Guy has a lot of feathers in his cap, and obviously a huge speaker.

But I would say, how do I create that evangelist role in my own organization? How do I pitch this from an ROI perspective? Because I am an individual contributor. I'm not a salesperson, I don't carry a quota. I'm not even in the sales organization. I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm in a group that has competitive intelligence, analyst relations, and a group of us evangelists. What's common there is it's all externally-focused.

The one benefit that I have is I have access to executives and companies I might not have if I was on my own with my own shingle, Tiffani Bova's Consulting Shop or whatever it might be, I might not get access, because I'd call in and they'd be like, "Who are you? What are you?" And when they're a customer, I can go to the account executive and be like, "Hey, I'd love to talk to this executive. Can you get a meeting?" Then lo and behold, it doesn't always work, it doesn't always work, but sometimes, a lot of the times, it does. I can have a conversation, and not to sell anything, not to pitch a keynote; it's just, "Hey, I'm thinking this. Are you hearing this? I read this about you guys. Is this what you're doing?" It's a very NDA conversation, so they trust the fact I'm not going to then go out and say on stage, "This is what's happening."

So, it will give you or can give you a unique perspective, because you have the I'm inside an engine, so I have a front row seat to what's happening, and also now I may have access or I may have the ability to do something I might not otherwise because I was an individual contributor. I had my own company, I was out looking for speaking gigs, or I'm within multiple speaking bureaus and they're pitching me. And if they're not pitching me, I'm not getting work, and if they pitch me and I don't get work, I've got to find a way to make a living.

So, it is really freeing. When I usually explain this to people, they're like, "How do I get that?" Because I know I'm blessed. I know it's an amazing opportunity. I see it popping up. Definitely in tech, I definitely see it popping up. I haven't seen it pop up as much outside of tech unless the organization is now saying, "We're now pivoting to being a tech company," and you could argue almost everybody is, but evangelizing not what that company is doing, but why what their company is doing is important to the rest of the market, I think it has a lot of value.

Maria Cairo:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions while driving massive impact for audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow route with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you're serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at ImpactEleven can help, from crafting your ideal positioning to optimizing your marketing effectiveness to perfecting your expertise and stage skills.

As the only speaker training and development community run by current high-level speakers at the top of the field, they'll boost your probability of success and help you get there faster. That's why nearly every major speaker bureau endorses and actively participates in ImpactEleven. The ImpactEleven community provides you unparalleled access to the people, relationships, coaching and accountability that compresses your time to success. To learn more about the ImpactEleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impacteleven.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

I have no crystal ball, of course, but if I were to plot out on a time horizon the number of corporate evangelists that there are today and fast forward five, 10 years, I have to imagine that's going to be an exponential growth area, because whether you're General Motors or Salesforce.com or anywhere in between, to represent thought leadership and the identity of the company and be on the cutting edge providing value to customers and partners, it just makes sense. And I think it's a really cool opportunity for those of us that maybe are uncomfortable in the freelance world selling speeches, it could be a really nice balance economically where you're employed, making General Motors as an example, by General Motors, and you have health insurance and stock options and such, and you still get to be out there sharing messages and elevating people's thinking. It's a really cool model.

Tiffani Bova:

I tell you that there are a few companies, and they will go unnamed, where there is only a set of people who can, quote-unquote, "talk on stage," that there aren't the evangelists. They may have two or three, but it has to be a certain level. They can't talk about something. So, it becomes a very narrow pool by which that company could get their thoughts out on, unless it was at the C-suite or a handful of very specific people. I think that's a miss. I think that's a miss.

I think also what is a miss is that if you don't believe there is an ability for you, if you're thinking of pitching this to the company you work for or you want to go pitch a company that you want to do it internally, they will look for that ROI. So, it really has to be that leap of faith of the influence of the evangelizing, of the halo effect of the putting out thought leadership that doesn't potentially have anything to do with what it is you do. But if you're really paying attention to a keynote I give, you'd see, well, almost everything I described can be solved by something Salesforce does. I just don't stand up there and say, "The answer to this is buy Salesforce." Then it would blow that. I'm agnostic as I can be with Salesforce on my business card.

Josh Linkner:

So good, I love it. I wanted to switch gears, Tiffani. You've written two books. I've read the first one, I need to read the second one. I'd love to get a quick overview of each of them and have you apply the core messages in each book to what speakers might be facing. Maybe we'll start with your first book, if it's okay, Growth IQ, which I love and read and devoured at least a couple times. Maybe could you just give us a quick overview of the main thrust of the book, and then apply those lessons to those of us in the world of professional speaking?

Tiffani Bova:
Yeah. I'd say Growth IQ, if I applied it to professional speaking, would be after 4,000 customer calls during the decade I was at Gartner, and it literally was about 4,000, and the 13 or 14 years where I was an actual practitioning individual contributor leader, people leader, that timeframe gave me this unique perspective. I call everything I learned stars in the sky. Growth IQ was my way of creating the Big Dipper of all these signals I was getting from all over the place, and that was the way I almost story arced keynotes. I have all this data and all this information. How do I tell this in a story that's inspirational and compelling and interesting, and takes people on a journey?

For me, I would say Growth IQ is a way for me to digest all I wanted to say. How I wrote that book was 10 unique growth paths. Customer experience, which I think we all can understand how customer experience plays a role in speaking. The next is customer-based penetration, meaning as a speaker, would you go sell another speech to someone you've already spoken at, but now you've got a new topic? Or it's a different division, or it's a different region for some reason, and then it's expand your product. Now maybe you do something different, like Josh would bring up his guitar, and that's a different way to engage; whatever it might be.

Those 10 paths to growth, how I wrote it was this isn't my communication medium, this is my communication medium. So, I actually created 10 keynotes, one at a time. A wire frame keynote, no images; just text. And I said, "It's going to be a 40-minute keynote, and I'm going to talk about customer experience." I stood up in my home office, I hit record, I gave the keynote about what I wanted to say about customer experience. I transcribed the keynote, and that was the beginning of my chapter. That's how I started writing the book. That was the way I could get 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 words on a piece of paper, because I could do that in a 40-minute keynote. How could I then take that as the foundation for me to move on?

Maybe that's an idea for you. Transcribe a keynote, write a blog, write a book. Come up with things that you're hearing along the way, and how do you introduce those into what your keynote is going to be? Then the second book was-

Josh Linkner:

I'm sorry, just real quick, I just want to pause and acknowledge that's cool, because you said, "This isn't my medium, this isn't." For those that are just listening audio-wise, what Tiffani was saying is that writing isn't her natural communication style, speaking is. And what a cool way to do that. Another, again, brilliant hack, that rather than forcing yourself into a medium that doesn't feel as comfortable, you essentially looked at it as a keynote, gave this keynote, because you were comfortable doing that, transcribed it, and that became the basis of the next medium. I thought that was a really smart approach. I wanted to acknowledge it.

That was Growth IQ. Your next book, The Experience Mindset: Changing the Way You Think About Growth, maybe tell us what's the 30-second overview of the book, and what can we as keynote speakers learn from it?

Tiffani Bova:

The 30-second overview would be that of the 10 paths to growth I did in Growth IQ, I completely missed employee. So, Experience Mindset is kind of a "whoops!" It's my 11th path to the 10 paths to growth that I missed in Growth IQ. Really that just highlights having a beginner's mind. I came to Salesforce, it's a great place to work. It's one of the most innovative companies in the world, and it's the fastest-growing enterprise software company. I thought that wasn't a coincidence, so I went out on a two-year research project and proved that in fact, that isn't a coincidence: that if you have happier employees, you'll have happier customers. And if you get those things right, you'll have greater growth.

Let's go back to what I said at the beginning. The employee in this case, let's just say, may even be the audience for me. My entire goal... I'm going to pull something from Guy Kawasaki. I've mentioned him twice today. He must be on my mind. I was getting onstage, we were doing an event many, many moons ago, and three weeks prior we were doing an event in San Diego and he had a really bad migraine. He was the keynote and I was at 10:30 in the morning. He was 8:30 and I was 10:30. They called me in crack of dawn and said, "Guy has a migraine. You've got to pinch-hit for him." I said, "No problem," so we flipped. I went in the morning and he went in my slot.

Three weeks later we were onstage again together at another event. He was up, I was following him. He was getting offstage, I was getting onstage. And literally, this is what he said to me: "Bova, don't suck." That's what he said. That's what he said. And every time before I get onstage, that's what I hear. "Bova, don't suck." So, Experience Mindset for me is I want the audience to have an amazing experience. I want them to not regret the 40 minutes they spent and say, "That was a waste of my time." That would be crushing to me. I don't want them to say, "I saw her three years ago and it was exactly the same content," or whatever it might be.

Now, not everyone's going to love it, but the goal is that they felt like, "I might not have agreed with what she said, but it was entertaining, it was inspiring. I had fun. It challenged me to think. I took some notes, we were talking about it later." In that case, I want them to have a great experience. So, I always approach everything with that in mind, that will it land right, will it not land right? How do I make this better for them? In service of that audience, that's what I'm there for.

In many ways The Experience Mindset is really not only thinking about what you are talking about, but about that audience that's in front of you. Are you up there for what you want to say and have to say, and so you can check the box and get the paycheck? Or are you there in service of the ride, the experience that you hope you take your audience on? That is a very different approach. You may be all listening like, "Of course that's what I do." You may think that's what you're doing, but that may not be the way the audience perceives it. That's really the foundation of the book in a very different industry.

Josh Linkner:
It's so true, and you're right. If our responsibility as a keynote, as a thought leader, is simply the transfer of knowledge, a written book is a more efficient transfer of knowledge than a keynote every single day. But our job is not just that. It is some of that, but it's also creating this experience, curating an experience, managing the emotional tensions, the ups and downs, the humor, all the things that you studied and watched both audio and visually in building your craft. Because it is; it's a craft that is not only meant to communicate information, but also to inspire action and have an emotional connection. Couldn't agree more.

Tiffani, as we round out our conversation, I would love for you to provide any advice. Imagine that someone is newer to the craft, they're passionate about it, they're doing the right things, they're investing for the long term, they don't want to just mail it in. Quite the opposite, they really care about making an impact on stage. They're building their body of work, they want to be among the legends and those that can sustain themselves in this industry. What advice do you give to that person, knowing what you know now and knowing where the industry is headed?

Tiffani Bova:

I'd say maybe implement some of those ideas, hacks that I had. Get copy of video, go through that. Look at those speakers that you may really enjoy. Again, to what both Josh and I said, not to copy, because look, you can't be somebody else. If you try to be somebody else, they'll know it in a hot second. I'll give a story. It was probably eight and a half, nine, 10 years ago maybe, and it was my largest keynote ever. It was 15,000 people in the round at the Verizon Center, and I had never spoken in the round, so I was a little uncomfortable. I'd never spoken where you can't walk in a circle. It's just very different.

Also, because the crowd was so large, you see nobody, which also was really difficult, because you feed off someone's laugh or giggle, or they're taking notes. You want something back. That's why doing Zoom webinars during COVID was so difficult, because you'd get nothing back; it's just very flat, it's a very flat medium. And it was 19 minutes. For the first six minutes, I had to be very on-script. I had to say a handful of things. I was introducing at the time the new CEO of Microsoft, Satya Nadella; not him personally, but the concepts he was going to then talk about. Then on the tail end, I was talking about my stuff.

It was the end of the presentation. I had the recording, and I took a shot in the dark and I sent a direct message to Nancy Duarte, whom if you don't know who she is, you should watch her TED Talk, because it will tell you everything about storytelling on the story arc of it, et cetera. She is a master. I sent her an unsolicited direct message and said I wanted her to review my keynote. If you're going to ask someone to review your keynote, go to the best of the best kind of a thing. Why shoot low? I shot high.

Josh Linkner:

Then by the way, that's like asking Steven Spielberg to review your screenplay. That's a big ask. But keep going, that's awesome. I love [inaudible 00:35:31].

Tiffani Bova:

It was a big ask. It was a big ask, and now we are very, very good friends. But I would say that it took a couple of weeks. Anyway, she answered me, and it was so spot on. She said, "I feel like you were a little uncomfortable in the beginning of the presentation, but I felt like you hit your stride around minute six." And I was like, "I was scripted in the first six minutes pretty much." I wasn't reading a teleprompter, but I was so fixated on what I had to say that I wasn't in my cadence. I wasn't playful and cheerful and funny, and my personality was flat. As soon as I got that behind me, I was like, "Phew," and then I was just off to the races. And she's like, "You nailed it in that back half of that presentation."

So, the answer to the question on the backside of this story is, you have to be willing to ask somebody to really critique what you're doing. Not somebody like your mom or your aunt or your best friend. Maybe another speaker, or maybe even the person who booked you to speak, like, "You've booked a lot of speakers," or even the speaker bureau you work with. You're going to have to get thick skin and really take to heart what they said. And I knew exactly what... She knew nothing of what I just told you all. She didn't know any of that backstory. But she nailed it, nailed it.

So, anytime now someone says, "You have to speak off the teleprompter and you need to say these things," I'm always like, "I might not be your gal. I might not be your gal, because it's just so out of my personality that it really flattens me, and then I feel like I'm not doing my best work." Now, the audience may not see that. They may think it was great. It's how I feel. I've gotten better, because obviously I've had to teleprompt a number of times over the last decade, but it's not my favorite thing to do.

I say that to you because I think asking for feedback, not only the way I said the hack, but personally, I think ask your speakers bureau or another speaker whom you admire. This isn't about I got a job and Josh didn't, and we're competitors. At the end of the day, we're all very different in how we present, who we are, what excites us. You have to find your superpower, and once you find that superpower, that's where you double down. That becomes your signature, that becomes what you're known for, and it might mean that other people have to help point out your superpower, because being self-aware, especially around something like this, is much more difficult.

That was a very long answer to a very short question, but the story really helped frame that up. If you haven't watched Nancy's TED Talk, she basically mapped the best speeches ever, from Aristotle to Martin Luther King to Steve Jobs, and lo and behold, found a pattern. There's a pattern in all the very good speeches, and broke it down so that you can learn how to do it better.

Josh Linkner:

Well, we will definitely put a link to the TED Talk in the show notes along with, of course, a link to you. But Tiffani, as we say goodbye, I just want to thank you. You've written about growth and experience, and I think you've poured so much of both of those into this conversation. I think you've given us some real tactics on how we can grow our speaking practices, and you've certainly given us some insight on how to create magical experiences for those that we serve.

My friend, it's always great spending time with you. Congratulations on your remarkable success, and keep making such an impact that you are in the world. Grateful for you.

Tiffani Bova:

Hey, listen, Josh, I wouldn't be here without you. I feel like our conversation and all the conversations we've had since have shaped so much of what I've done around the book. I was scared to do it. You were like, "Go for it, do it." I didn't want to become a full-time speaker, and while I'm not doing it quite yet, I always feel like I have you in my corner. So, I appreciate you as well. I'm grateful.

Josh Linkner:

Thank you.

As someone who studies innovation, I absolutely loved learning how Tiffani continues to break the mold. A few highlights: Number one, her three-step approach to getting better was a three-stage wisdom bomb. She encouraged us to, A, watch the recordings of ourselves, first with the video on and the volume off, and then listen with the video off and the volume on. This helps us isolate and improve individual aspects of our game. B, from Oprah to Obama, study others, not to copy, but to observe and pick up ideas to improve our own artistic choices. And C, trade the session summary for detailed audience feedback, a great way to get outside perspective to fuel progress.

Number two, Tiffani is first to admit that she's not a natural writer. I love how she stayed in her own medium speaking to write her books, writing each chapter as a keynote, and then using the transcripts as the basis of the book. Brilliant. And number three, Tiffani's business model is really compelling. Instead of a freelancer selling speeches for cash, it's so cool how she has a full-time job with Salesforce, yet still is every bit the thought leader and speaker of others at the top of our field. Shows us that there are many ways to earn a great living in this profession.

Tiffani shows us a fresh way to grow our skills and grow our business, and I have no doubt she'll continue to do the same for herself, audiences and clients around the world. Thanks to my good friend and consummate professional, the one and only Tiffani Bova.

Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends, and don't forget to give us a five-star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next mic drop moment.