Mic Drop

An Insider’s Look (ft. Ivy Gustafson & Jenny DeRosse)

Episode Summary

This week, it’s all about the bureaus. How do speakers connect with and optimize speaker bureau relationships? What are the trends that are pushing new speakers to the top while shifting those who are stuck in their ways off to the sidelines? What are buyers looking for and how are decisions made? Find out all that and more on this week’s Mic Drop.

Episode Notes

An Insider’s Look (ft. Ivy Gustafson & Jenny DeRosse)

Insights from two amazing experts right here at Impact Eleven

OPENING QUOTE:

“If you really open yourself up and show who you are and you're not afraid to show your weaknesses and your flaws, the audience really relates to you because we're all human.”

-Jenny DeRosse

GUEST BIO:

Ivy Gustafson spent over 20 years in the bureau world, first as an agent for the Washington Speakers Bureau, and then as an agent for Gotham Artists. When she realized she wanted to dive headfirst into coaching speakers, she joined the Impact Eleven team as director of client development and coaching. Today, she coaches some of the world's most prolific keynote speakers.

Links:

Jenny DeRosse first entered the speaking industry as an agent for Toronto-based Speakers Spotlight. After moving to the States, she joined BigSpeak managing exclusive speakers and co-brokering. After a decade on the bureau side, she joined the Impact Eleven team, where she now manages the team of founding partners, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Ryan Estis, and little old me, booking approximately $8 million of keynotes per year for the four of us. She also heads up our bureau relations, which gives her a unique perspective into the industry.

Links:

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[13:54] - It’s Not About Content or Quality

Successful speakers are simply great people

From highlighting what makes them fall in love with speakers to sharing their “speaker pet peeves,” the picture painted by Ivy and Jenny is that the speakers they love aren’t the most successful, or the most popular, or the ones that can captivate a crowd. They’re the ones who are kind, who answer emails on time, who show up to meetings with the bureau. They’re the speakers who understand that this is a human business, and treat everyone as human beings.

So if you want to impress a bureau — or anyone in this industry — it’s even more important to be a good person than a good speaker.

[39:25] - The Bureau is On Your Side

Believe it or not, bureaus want you to succeed

Throughout the conversation, Ivy and Jenny make it apparent that bureau professionals want one thing more than anything else — to help speakers succeed. New and emerging speakers often become frustrated with bureaus, either because they can’t get their attention or because they can’t keep it. “Why don’t they care about me?” they think. But the truth is that bureaus care deeply about their speakers — it’s why they do what they do. Sometimes they simply have to balance all the competing demands on their time to the best of their ability.

[36:35] - Advice for the Next Generation

What would our guests say to rising speakers?

Both Ivy and Jenny joined Impact Eleven because they believed in the power of learning from people who have been there before. Their advice to young speakers is to seek out opportunities to learn from other speakers, other bureau experts, and established voices within the industry. Whether this comes through Impact Eleven or elsewhere, the power of learning from mistakes, missteps, and masteries of other speakers is absolutely essential.

[34:49] - A Category of One

How to hone your message and speaker brand

Ivy shares one of Impact Eleven’s go-to mantras: what is your “category of one?” It applies to the idea that every speaker should try to pinpoint what they can talk about that no one else can with the same level of authority. It’s about taking a broad category and turning it into something where you’re the only authoritative voice.

What’s your category of one? The time to start looking is right now.

RESOURCES:

[2:10] About Gotham Artists
[2:33] About BigSpeak

Follow Ivy Gustafson:

Follow Jenny DeRosse:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

Episode Transcription

Jenny DeRosse:

If you really open yourself up and show who you are and you're not afraid to show your weaknesses and your flaws, the audience really relates to you because we're all human.

Josh Linkner:

Hey, Mic Drop enthusiast. Josh Linkner here. Delighted to be bringing you season two of Mic Drop. I love our conversations with speakers and industry leaders alike so we can unpack the industry and we can all perform better. Let's get after it and get better together.

Maria Cairo:

Mic Drop is brought to you by Impact Eleven, the most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers to get on bigger stages at higher fees with greater impact, faster. They're not just elevating an industry that we all know and love. They work with thousands of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses. Accelerating time success, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. To Learn more about the Impact Eleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

On today's episode of Mic Drop, we dive deep into the world of speaker bureaus and selling keynotes. How do speakers connect with and optimize bureau relationships? What are the trends that are pushing new speakers to the top while shifting those who are stuck in their ways off to the sidelines? What are buyers looking for and how are decisions made? Today I'm joined by two guests with over three decades of combined bureau agent experience, adding direct selling, co-brokering, managing exclusives, keynote coaching, and bureau relations, well, there couldn't be two more well-qualified people to join us on today's show.

Today I'm excited to share this insightful conversation with two close friends and colleagues. In our chat, we cover how the speaker of today is vastly different from the speaker of the past, things that every speaker should avoid if they want bureaus to like them and work with them, how to become a category of one, and much more advice for speakers at every stage of their development. I know you're going to love today's conversation with two seasoned pros.

Josh Linkner:

Ivy and Jenny, welcome to Mic Drop.

Ivy Gustafson:

Thanks so much for having us today.

Jenny DeRosse:

Thank you for having us.

Josh Linkner:

So this is going to be a really fun episode, not only because we're friends and business colleagues, but also because the rich experience that you bring from a lot of sides of this whole equation. So I thought it'd be helpful to start, actually, I'll ask each of you to tell us a little bit about your background in the industry, how you entered, what you've done when you're on the bureau side, and now what you're up to today. Ivy, why don't you kick us off, please?

Ivy Gustafson:

Well, I honestly have to say, Josh, I thank you again for having both of us on today. I can probably sum up my bureau in Impact Eleven catalysts with it's a quick tale of Diet Coke and Mel Robbins. And when I was looking for a job in my early 20s, I remembered taking a tour at Washington Speakers Bureau and I remembered that they had a Diet Coke machine in the kitchen. And when you're 24, 25, Diet Coke is a line item on a budget. I'm like, "Oh my God, if I worked here, I could have free Diet Coke all day." And that was a huge factor for me in whether or not it was going to take the job. Despite the fun, despite Harry and Bernie, despite all the wonderful people, I got Diet Coke on a regular, which was amazing.

And then when I was looking to make the transition out of the bureau world and into fully diving into this coaching, which I adore and love as my next sort of iteration in our industry, I was sort of hemming and hawing and saw an Instagram post from Mel Robbins saying, "If you don't change your life, nobody else will." So I have to give full credit to Mel because laying in bed at 6:00 AM scrolling in my phone, I texted to Jordan, I'm like, "Hey, can we chat?" And the rest is history. So it's a quick summary of a very, very long career, but thrilled to be here and just super excited for all that we're doing in our industry.

Josh Linkner:

Amazing. And just so for those that are less familiar with your background, so you spent how many years at Washington Speakers Bureau?

Ivy Gustafson:

I was 17 years at WSB and about five years at Gotham Artists, and now over a year here at Impact Eleven.

Josh Linkner:

And what is your current role at Impact Eleven, just so people can get a sense of what you're up to?

Ivy Gustafson:

Of course. Currently, I am the director of client development and coaching, which means that I work with all of our clients, community members, and the founding partners in terms of making sure that their content and business are as up-level as they can be. Are they hitting the right notes in the marketplace? Are they hitting the right notes for the times that we're in? And how are they communicating? And really helping them make sure that their messages are on point and as impactful as they can be.

Josh Linkner:

Amazing. So a couple decades of selling the most notable speakers in the world and now helping the next generation of speakers level up and be the best that they can be. So amazing experience on both sides. Jenny, give us the rundown from your perspective, please.

Jenny DeRosse:

Oh, fun. I've had a bit of a rollercoaster ride and been all over in this fun industry. I got started in Toronto at Speakers Spotlight, and I came to it by way of comedy. I had a castmate in my class at Second City who was working with Martin and Farah and a position came up and I thought, "Wow, that's a business?" And luckily they thought I could do something with them and they brought me on board as an agent, so I was started in Toronto.

When my family moved to California, I moved on to work at BigSpeak where I helped manage all of their exclusive speakers for co-brokering only, which was a great way to get to know all of my near and dear bureau friends. I was also at APB out of Boston for a short time before making my way to you and our fabulous friends at Impact Eleven where I now manage the founding partners. So you, Josh, along with Pete, Ryan, and Seth, and working with this whole team and the beautiful community we're building.

Josh Linkner:

So thank you, Jenny. And again, this is an inside job discussion here because we're all friends and colleagues, but putting that aside, both of you had remarkable experience. I mean, as I can count, that's five bureaus between the two of you. If you added up over 30 years in the bureau world of selling speakers at the highest levels, and now on the front lines today currently of helping people optimize themselves and optimize their performance in the market. So no better guests than we could have with the two of you.

Ivy, a question for you. I know a lot has changed since you started back in this industry. If you just zoom back 10 years ago, what would you say are the primary differences that you're experiencing, that our industry's experiencing? What was different 10 years ago versus what we're experiencing today?

Ivy Gustafson:

I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, this is an industry that has been around for hundreds of years. I mean, when you think about it, Mark Twain was out on the stump giving keynote speeches back in the 1800s. And so much about what we do in this industry is as it is because giving keynote speeches is a craft and we hone it. But I would say honestly, the biggest thing that I have noticed is the shift of how personal development impacts professional development. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, we weren't talking about how to make ourselves better people, better humans. We were talking about how to lead teams more effectively, have a more efficient supply chain.

I mean, we looked for motivational speakers to help us drive our sales. We weren't really looking so inward. And I think it is actually a really remarkable shift, frankly. I mean, not to sound grandiose, but for humanity. The amount of work that we see people doing on themselves in terms of making themselves better for their families, for their communities, but also for their teams, for their industries, for their organizations, is really, really quite something. And I love how so many speakers are really working to make that connection between the value of growing internally and what that outward effect can have on the world at large. And I think that's a really amazing shift that again, 10 years ago we weren't talking about that. Not really at all.

Josh Linkner:

I love that. And Jenny, I'd love for you to build on that. If you think about the speaker of yesterday versus the speaker of today, the successful speaker, we've chatted about this, the caricature of the Zig Ziglars of the past, pinstripe suit and this sort of over-exaggerated, over performance and it's all business and how do you close deals and such, and now it's a much more warm and authentic and human-centered approach. How would you describe that, Jenny, when you think about the future of yesterday versus the future of the speaker of today?

Jenny DeRosse:

I think you nailed it with the word authenticity. So building on what Ivy said, it really is about showing up as exactly who you are and giving an audience insight into your inner world true vulnerability. I think showing up with too much confidence and over-prepared and feeling like you are performing and not sharing, that's over. People don't want that. I don't want, and not just me, no one wants to see a speaker who's kind of speaking at them. The audience is more a part of the equation now. So if you really open yourself up and show who you are and you're not afraid to show your weaknesses and your flaws, the audience really relates to you because we're all human. No one's perfect. So as great as you are on the stage, the more you show your true humanity, the better off you'll be in the industry moving forward.

Josh Linkner:

And so building on that, that's kind of the difference in what speakers are doing. What's the difference with buyers? I mean, you both obviously have been on all sides of this, but how are people buying speeches differently today than they were a decade ago? Jenny, we'll stay with you please.

Jenny DeRosse:

Sure. I think the expectations are higher. I think buyers want everything they can possibly get from a speaker. They want the time before the event, they want the time on site, they're not interested in a speaker who shows up for their 60-minute slot and takes off immediately. Meet and greets are great, time with an executive team, will you stick around for a book signing? And making them feel like you're a partner from the beginning to the end is really important. There are so many options out there. There are a lot of speakers these days, so if you want to stand out and be one of the best out there, give of yourself from start to finish.

Josh Linkner:

That's great advice. Ivy, what about you? What difference are you seeing on how speeches are being bought and sold, not just delivered?

Ivy Gustafson:

I'd have to sort of build on what Jenny said with the time on site, but it's sort of this attitude of being in service and the attitude of being in service honestly with every single part of your business. The buying process has gotten infinitely more complicated. I feel like the stakes for picking the right speaker are higher than they've ever been. And that means that all of your materials have to be absolutely top-notch.

We talk all the time, Josh, about taking things to eleven. You need to make sure that your speech topics, your website, all of those materials that buyers need to feel confident in their choice are absolutely on point. And I think that that is more important today than it ever has been. I mean, I remember the days where you would send over a quick short bio, a couple video links on YouTube, they'd make a decision and you'd move on. The buying process, which I have seen from 20-plus years of helping clients through this to myself now having buyers as friends, and they come to me with their challenges of the committees and the inevitable board of directors or whoever is involved in making these decisions.

And they come to me with their challenges and how to navigate this world. And I think that's where really having, making sure that your materials are in service to that process is going to really set you apart in the marketplace.

Jenny DeRosse:

And if I was to add one thing right onto that, Ivy, is let your assets do the selling for you. So recognize that even if you offer your time and say, "I'd love to get on a Zoom with you," they might not give you that opportunity. So you want to be sure that the moment that committee sits down and they read your topics or watch your reel, there's no question that you're the one.

Josh Linkner:

We can learn a lot what to do by good advice, but we can also learn a lot what to do by learning what not to do. So I thought we'd play a fun little game called Speaker Pet Peeves here on Mic Drop, and we'll just do a little jam session. We'll go back and forth. I'm happy to kick us off. And the reason we're obviously doing this in a playful way and it's in the spirit of love and lifting people up, not criticizing, but I think it's important that people know what are the things that agents and buyers alike find unattractive so that we can avoid them?

So I'll kick us off. One of my pet peeves is when people essentially get up and spout platitudes and cliches, they tell us what we already know. They say, "Hey, my tips to leadership, work hard, teamwork, collaboration, be supportive of each other." And by the way, all those things are true, but we already know all those things. And so a thought leader is not someone who confirms existing views and biases, it's someone who helps people think new thoughts, not existing thoughts. So that's pet peeve of mine number one.

Number two, and then I'll toss it over to you, Ivy, by pet peeve number two is when people communicate a huge amount of self-importance from the stage, "Look at me, look what I did. Me, me, me, me." And I think speakers are more effective, Jenny, you mentioned this earlier, when they're a bit vulnerable and revealing and authentic and humble as opposed to being boastful and arrogant and condescending. So those are my two. Ivy, over to you. What are some of your speaker pet peeves?

Ivy Gustafson:

Oh, Josh, you kind of stole my thunder on one of them. The pet peeve is remembering that this is 100% not about you. And it's very hard when you are a speaker and you are out there promoting yourself and you are trying to get business around the product that happens to be yourself, to do this in a way that is not overbearing and this, that, and the other. But again, at the end of the day, it's not about you, it's about the buyer, it's about the audience, it's about their goals, not your goals. So really sort of keeping that in mind.

And also too is please be easy to work with. Don't come at me with a writer that's 47 pages long. And I mean, we all joke about the Greenman M&Ms, but you would be really surprised about some of the things that we have seen. And I think there's certainly, we want to make sure that you're comfortable and you're healthy and you're ready to go. And if you have a horrible shellfish allergy, we don't serve you shrimp salad covered in lobster, but at the same time, don't send over a list of brand-specific tea that can only be found in the wilds of India for requirements before you take the stage.

So again, please be easy to work with, communicate what's needed, and we'll take things from there. We want to take good care of you, but at the same time, remember who you serve.

Josh Linkner:

So good. Jenny, what about you? What are some of your pet peeves?

Jenny DeRosse:

Oh, well, I mean, again, you've taken some of the good stuff, but a lot of this for me comes back to remember that even though you see yourself as a product, as a speaker, you are also a person, and the buyers you're working with and the agents you're working with are people too. So when you're connecting with them, don't just push. Don't just push to remind them how great you are on stage and that they need to book you, talk to them like people. Remember that everyone in this business, this is a people business. Everyone wants to get to know you as a human, so focus on that and not productizing yourself in every moment.

And then the other thing again is doubling down on be a good person, be kind, be easy to work with at all times. Pushing this doesn't work in this business. No one has to book you. They'll book you if you're the one and if they have a good experience leading up to signing a contract, but be good, be kind as you're working with them along the way. Otherwise, no matter how great your content is, it won't be you.

Josh Linkner:

It's great feedback. I'd love to double-click if we could please on the easy to work with side of things. Again, people sometimes they get a lot of applause and they believe, "Hey, I'm so important and my book is a bestseller," and they feel very entitled and they can be difficult to work with. But putting your previous bureau hat on for a second, imagine that you're giving a pitch, your client asks for some ideas for an opening keynote, and Speaker A and Speaker B are really both very good on stage. Their content's good, they're smart, the know the audience is going to love them, but Speaker A responds instantly and provides everything they need with a smile, and is very responsive, and is kind, and supportive, and professional.

Speaker B, you have to call them six times and they ask you to fill out a seven-page matrix why should they even do this speech, and then the office will tell you in 10 days and there's that 47-page writer. So again, what I'm asking you to describe from a bureau standpoint is two speakers who are very similar in terms of performance and content, but very different in terms of user-friendliness. How do you process that when you're recommending or not recommending a speaker? Jenny?

Jenny DeRosse:

I've always been really honest with clients. You're never throwing Speaker B under the bus, but I'm going to lift up Speaker A every time because the reality is if as a speaker you make the agent look good, you're making their job easier, your relationship with them, your ability to get back to them quickly, offer customized thoughts on how you would approach an engagement, all of that helps them sell you as a speaker, and it's an experience they want. They want to be working with you and putting the best foot forward for Speaker A every time.

Maria Cairo:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions while driving massive impact for audiences around the world, but the quest to speaking glory can be a slow rot with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you're serious about growing your speaking business, the season pros at Impact Eleven can help from crafting your ideal positioning to optimizing your marketing effectiveness, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills.

As the only speaker training and development community run by current high level speakers at the top of the field, they'll boost your probability of success and help you get there faster. That's why nearly every major speaker bureau endorses and actively participates in Impact Eleven. The Impact Eleven community provides you unparalleled access to the people, relationships, coaching, and accountability that compresses your time to success. To learn more about the Impact Eleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

Totally agree. And in fact, I had one person tell me one time that scenario, and they came to a gig of mine, a keynote, and they said, "The reason you're here is I didn't even recommend the other speaker because I know it's such a pain to work with and I don't have the time to jump through so many hoops." And he was very clear by the way. That this agent said to me, "The other speaker is just as good as you. Just so we're clear, you're not a better speaker, better content, but you're easier to work with, which is why you have this engagement." So I think it's a really important message for us all.

I think again, back in your days at WSB, you dealt with a lot of divas, I'm sure, these very famous people and ex-royalty and all that, but help us understand what that feels like in a busy, chaotic world of an agent trying to not only make a living but serve their clients.

Ivy Gustafson:

I think it, honestly, Josh, it's a really, really good question because at Washington Speakers Bureau, I mean I did have the joy of working with people who were at, I mean the absolute highest levels and former world leaders, and you're dealing with security and you're dealing with cars and lots of times it's Secret Service, it's Scotland Yard, and everyone has all of their needs, but you're also dealing with some of those unknown speakers who were just starting out in their career. And for both of them that I found the number one thing that helped the agents get through the events cleanly, smoothly, and with absolute nothing but glowing reviews from both the speakers and the clients on the other end was communication. You have got to communicate in such a succinct way and you need to do it.

And I think it goes back to Jenny's thoughts on authenticity. Know yourself, know what you need as a speaker that is going to make you shine. And also then be willing to present that in a way that is humble and helpful because again, meeting planners and agents, these are some of the busiest people, the hardest working people in the events. You have to remember that that meeting planner has upwards of, some of these events have 10,000 attendees. Their experiences on her, right? So if you as a speaker can come in and communicate quickly and brilliantly, even asking the question, "How best do you like to communicate once I get on site? Is it an email? Is it a phone call? Is it a text message? What is going to be most helpful to you?"

Again, always going back to that attitude of service. And I have seen even these people who we worked with at these high, high levels, they came at it with an attitude of service. Some people don't. They're never going to be. Whatever level you're at, there's always going to be that person that's going to come at this with, "Me, me, me." But I have seen those people who have been at the absolute pinnacle come to meeting planners with an attitude of humility and service and it just makes the experience so much better for everybody.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, couldn't agree more and great creative jobs. I love that, practical advice too. I'd be saying with you, you've been obviously WSB at the time was a very, very large bureau, a lot of exclusives, but also Gotham, which was more scrappy and smaller. And Jenny, you were several different places of varying sizes. I wanted to switch the conversation to speaker discovery. And so in other words, when you're a bureau agent, you're going to pitch the people that you know, many times you have a roster of exclusive speakers, but then you're also sort of on the hunt for new speakers, but you also are a bit overwhelmed because everyone wants to be your friend and you're getting besieged with all these people that want you to watch their reel.

What are some dos and don'ts, best practices for a speaker that wants to form to initiate, not just form, but to initiate a new relationship with a new agent? Jenny, what are some best practices in terms of speaker discovery?

Jenny DeRosse:

I think it's always best if you can get a referral. If you don't want to end up in someone's spam or trash, it's really great if someone who already knows the agent is able to stand up for you and say, "Hey, you really should check this person out." You don't want to inundate speaker bureaus and agents with your materials because there are so many people looking to get in front of them. So be really thoughtful with what you're sharing, make sure you're ready. That is another thing.

If you are just getting started as a speaker, it isn't time to meet a bureau. So be really self-aware when it comes to where you're at in your speaker journey. You should already be a professional speaker and speaking semi-regularly and have some momentum going before you connect with the bureau, so I think that's a really important piece of it as well.

Josh Linkner:

So good. I think there's the old adage you can only make a first impression once, and I've seen that mistake where people come and say, "Oh, I don't have my reel yet. I'm still working on my website." But then your first impression is an amateur, someone who's not ready, as opposed to someone who's really prepared for the big leagues. I've also heard one of the bureau friends say to me that bureaus are very good at accelerating momentum but not initiating it. In other words, if there's already some momentum in the business, a bureau can help accelerate that, but they're not good necessarily getting someone from a dead stop into motion.

Ivy, what would you add to that? How can speakers best think about that discovery process of initiating new bureau relationships?

Ivy Gustafson:

So I think that the one thing that we talk about internally a lot, and I don't know how much it gets talked out about in the marketplace, is that we say you want to get in with a bureau and what you really are trying to do is get in with an agent. A bureau is made up of agents and we're all people and we are all individual in terms of how we want to absorb, receive, consume information. So I think that as a speaker who's already got some momentum like you said and is starting to initiate some of those bureau conversations is remember that each agent you interact with is going to want to interact with you in their own personal way.

For me, I love a quick conversation, let's have a virtual cup of coffee, and then let me go do my thing and I'll follow up with you. It may be completely different for somebody else, so it's just networking in any other situation that you would be in is that you have to take different approaches with people. But I also think that it's a great moment to sort of reemphasize what Jenny said about being ready and making sure your materials are 100% there and can stand on their own and speak for themselves, because an agent may be on a call with someone or may be talking with a client and say, "Oh, remember that guy I talked to? Remember that person I connected with? Let me go drop their website in the chat. Just go check their website out, buyer friend."

That I want you to just say, "Take a look at Josh Linkner and let me see what you think. Let's connect with him next week." If I'm going to be proposing you, that website has to look amazing and everything that buyer needs to know about you has got to be there. So in terms of, again, find out how they like to be communicated with, find out how they like to consume information, and then make sure that the information you share is rock solid, and beautiful, and ready to go.

Jenny DeRosse:

Can I tag in with one more piece on that? All of those assets that are beautiful need to be super clear in helping an agent understand how to sell you, because that's the big thing an agent really needs to understand. In a sea of so many speakers and options, how do you stand out? What makes you different? If you are similar to people who are, we call them your avatars, the people you hope to be in the future or you'd like to emulate over time, if you are the poor man's someone, you can tell that to an agent. It's really great to share that so they have some context around who you are and it will help them contemplate pitching you pretty quickly.

Josh Linkner:

Excellent advice. That's a very practical approach. So the neat thing, I was thinking about this before our chat today, both of you have is you've been on kind of both sides of the equation. You've spent over a decade in the bureau world selling. Ivy, two decades selling speeches, speakers, and now you've spent a lot of time helping speakers. You really have a unique perspective that I think very few other people on this planet really have. So with that in mind, I'd love to ask you both the same question is where are the misunderstandings? What do speakers misunderstand about bureaus and what do bureaus often misunderstand about speakers? Jenny, I'll stay with you.

Jenny DeRosse:

Yeah, this is a big one. I think it's really complex because one of the things we talked about before is as a speaker, you are the product. I think it's really hard to not take things personally. You lose deals, you win deals, they're not all for you. Some bureaus take a lot of holds, some bureaus make sure they check people's availability on everything. And I think some speakers think that a hold is a deal that's about to close and it simply isn't. Sometimes it is, and that's amazing, but it's recognizing that all of those holds are a good thing. It means you're being pitched and people want to get you in front of their clients. Pay attention to your close rate, I think that's important, and ask the questions about what you don't book, but don't make the assumption that everything is going to close.

And also, go easy on those agents because as we discussed, they're super busy and if they haven't come back to you on a hold, odds are it isn't because they've forgotten about you, they haven't closed the deal, they don't have further information from a client. So give them some space and patience because they are trying. And I think on the flip side, if you're an agent, it's important to give a little thought to what the speakers' experience is and how you communicate with them. So don't put things in front of them that seem like they're sure things, give them added context. Speakers would like to know what you're pitching them for, so if you have a little bit of information about the event, there's a brief, give a speaker an opportunity to share more details to help you close the deal.

So I think it goes both ways. Everyone needs to be more open and find the communication that works best because you're really trying to do the same thing. You're all trying to help each other. You want to get on those stages, agents want to make their clients happy, so it's finding the best way to do that collaboratively.

Josh Linkner:

Beautifully said. Ivy, what do you think? What are some of the misunderstandings that occur on both sides of the equation?

Ivy Gustafson:

So I'm not sure it's so much of a misunderstanding. I think a lot of times this is more on the agent side is that agents tend to gravitate towards those few speakers. You may have 500 speakers on a bureau website, but if you go and actually look at the data, those bureaus really only book 45 of them. And so I think that that's actually an opportunity, it's an opportunity for agents to get to know new speakers and to really have a growth mindset. I think that in all industries with all people, it can be you just sort of get in your groove and you just start rocking and you're just like, "Okay, yeah, I'm going to pitch the same things." But you always have to have that mindset of, "Who's coming up next? Who can I be thinking of? What's the next person around the corner?"

And I think the misconception is that for those bureaus that have these big rosters, that they're not interested in the new speakers where then they absolutely should be. But I also think that that goes both ways from the speaker perspective is that they often think that, "Oh my gosh, if I get on a bureau website, all of a sudden money will rain down from the skies. I'm going to share a stage with Beyonce and Taylor Swift's going to put me up on stage in Edinburgh next year," which I know because that's the only place my daughter wants to go ever.

So I think that there needs to be a partnership attitude like Jenny was talking about, and I think there needs to be a level set is that all of the agents need to be looking for new, but all of the speakers need to realize that the bureau avenue is just one spoke in the wheel. They need to be looking for business in lots of places. So to just sort of keep some really strong perspective around all of that.

Josh Linkner:

So good, Ivy. I'm just going to build on that and answer the question too. I think you're so right that speakers have the misconception that if I'm listed with the bureau, that I'm going to be whisked off to fame and fortune, and you still are responsible for demand generation. You still have to create excitement or enthusiasm around your brand. And yes, bureaus can accelerate that, but just merely being listed is not an instant lotto ticket. And you need to nurture the relationships and nurture the marketplace and create demand, all the things you do in any other profession, it's not a one size, the minute you're signed, you're done.

I think going the other way, sometimes, not always, and this is a generalization of course, but maybe they think that we speakers are a little windup dolls, we say our lines and we got to rehearse stuff, and lack the sophistication of flexibility to really nurture, and mold, and accommodate, and partner in both the speech itself but also the selling process. I've seen many bureau agents say like, "Yeah, I'll just sign the contract when it's done." And of course there are excellent professionals at closing deals for sure, but there are times that a collaboration can be really helpful. Maybe that speaker or the bureau agent doesn't know that a particular speaker has a real interesting background that's directly applicable to the client opportunity.

And so I just think that if they think of it as just selling widgets, and what you see is what you get, it lacks the depth that some speakers certainly can provide in both delivering and selling speeches.

Ivy Gustafson:

Definitely, definitely. Yeah, 100%.

Josh Linkner:

So as we round out our conversation, I'd love for you to give a bit of advice. I want you to imagine that my nephew, my nephew is 26 years old, just wrote a book, very passionate, wants to be in speaking for the long-term, isn't looking for the quick buck, wants to do it right, is new to the business, but has a lot to offer, interesting background, etc. And we'll call my nephew in this case, Jared. So what advice do you give to Jared, someone who's young and wants to do it right, their heart's in the right place and willing to invest? What advice do you give to the Jareds of the world on how to launch and scale a successful speaking practice from your years of experience on all sides of the equation? Ivy, why don't we start with you?

Ivy Gustafson:

It's a really big question, it's a really good question. I think that it's a combination of both looking inward and looking outward constantly. We always joke and tease, and we don't want to use the platitudes, but know thyself. As you get in, make sure you're constantly checking in and that the message on your heart is unique. You've got to do the work to make yourself unique. We talk about it at Impact Eleven is what is your category of one? You may have this incredible message on your heart, but you always have to be honing that category of one.

And when you start out, you may be a category of five, and that's okay, but you really need to be constantly working towards also the outward side of the business, but also developing the content and the core business. And what are those surprising truths? Those are the things that are going to keep you, yes, everyone has their social media platform and their content that they share there, but what is it going to take? What do you bring to the table that's going to make a buyer say, "I'm going to drop $15,000 to have you come into my meeting, or I can just share your Instagram link and your what have you with my attendees, and they can go learn everything that they need to know about you from there." And I think it's really making sure that you've got that depth of content, which is, as you mentioned, a lifetime of work. You are building a body of work, you are not just delivering a keynote.

Josh Linkner:

Beautifully said. Jenny, what are your thoughts?

Jenny DeRosse:

I mean, I'm absolutely not here simply to pitch Impact Eleven, but the fact that we now exist and there's an opportunity to learn from people who've been doing it and who are currently doing it, I can't recommend it highly enough that people reach out to others who are in the business because the speaking industry, it seems, is one that no one has ever heard of until they fall into it. You'll hear that story over and over again, whether you're a speaker, a meeting planner, or an agent, you didn't know this was a thing.

And so to have a community of people who really understand it and can answer all of your questions and point you in the right direction in terms of the type of research you should be doing, working out exactly what your point of view is on the world and why you should be sharing it and how it is in service of others, I think it takes a lot of work. And as Ivy mentioned, it's ongoing. So if you write a speech when you're 26, I hope Jared has the depth at that point in life that he can do that and move forward with it, but it will continue to evolve, and that will happen by focusing on all of what's happening in the industry and in the world to make sure that what you're sharing continues to be relevant.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, it's so good. There's that need to sort of reinvent and roll with things as your body of work evolves. Totally true. One I'd add, we talked about the importance of treating it like a business and being serious, investing in yourself and the practice, learning from others, for sure. And I would just add the things that are near and dear on my heart is ingenuity and resolve. I think it takes the willingness to be agile and adapt to changing conditions, and also the real result. If you're going to do it, you're being all in, burn the bridges. And then once you're there, you have to figure out what's necessary in order to bring your vision to life.

And speaking of bringing your vision to life, I just want to say thank you, Ivy and Jenny, for your leadership in the industry for decades. It's been an honor to work with you over the years. And of course today our collaboration at Impact Eleven, there's nobody better for us to learn from than these deeply experienced professionals that I've had the joy of spending this last half hour with. Thank you and thank you for making such an impact on all lives of our listeners here today.

Ivy Gustafson:

My pleasure. Thanks for having us, Josh.

Jenny DeRosse:

Thanks so much for having us, Josh.

Josh Linkner:

Pretty sure you can see why I love working with Jenny and Ivy so much, and today's conversation was priceless. A few things that really landed for me. Number one, I love that Jenny and Ivy's speaker pet peeves had absolutely nothing to do with the content or quality of the keynotes themselves. Instead, they were all about the behavior of the speakers and their interactions. It shows what a competitive advantage, or if you get it wrong, a competitive hindrance, good bedside manner can be. Let's make sure that we're all user-friendly to boost our speaking practices.

Number two, I was also struck by how much Ivy and Jenny genuinely want to help everyone succeed, which is something that many speakers don't realize about agents and bureaus, just how badly they want things to work for you as a speaker and how they will do everything they can within reason to make that happen. Let's kill that us versus them bureau speaker mindset once and for all so we can all go on and thrive together.

And number three, we had the chance to discuss one of the most important messages for speakers, becoming a category of one, honing your branding and message until you're talking about something that nobody else has cornered. Well, this takes time, but it can make all the difference in your speaking business. It's an honor to work with Ivy and Jenny on a daily basis, and I hope that you enjoyed their enthusiasm and insights as much as I did. Together, let's continue to elevate the industry and create a massive impact in the world, one Mic Drop moment at a time.

Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five-star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit Mic Droppodcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next Mic Drop moment.