Mic Drop

Between the Lines (ft. Naren Aryal)

Episode Summary

Naren Aryal has made a career out of helping speakers and other thought leaders make their careers— all through the power of book publishing. Discover crucial insights into how books and speaking go hand-in-hand, plus a whole lot more on this week’s Mic Drop.

Episode Notes

Between the Lines (ft. Naren Aryal)

Exploring the fusion point where books & speaking meet

OPENING QUOTE:

“Hey look, here's 10 titles and here are the high level takeaways from each of the 10. Where does your book fit in? And if you can't tell me exactly how it's different, how it's unique in this space, then we've got some work to do on conceptualizing your book.”

-Naren Aryal

GUEST BIO:

Naren Aryal is founder and CEO of Amplify Publishing Group. Though not a speaker himself, Aryal has helped publish thousands of books— including many for leaders in the speaking industry.

Links:

Official Bio

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[4:38] - One Industry, Three Models

Options for speakers who want to get published

Want to get published? You have three paths— traditional publishers, self-publishers, and hybrid publishers. Self-publishing is a route that allows for maximum independence and allows you to keep nearly all your royalties. But it also means that everything falls to you to either do yourself or outsource— cover design, editorial, marketing, book distribution, etc.

Traditional publishing requires a higher barrier of entry, but the potential for success can be greater. Finally, hybrid publishing combines elements of both, offering a suite of practical services but letting authors keep more of their royalties.

[9:24] - Turning Royalties in Your Favor

Earn more for your work

Understanding royalties is essential for managing a publishing career— including how they influence whether to self-publish. Everything from publishing advances to royalty splits and out-of-pocket costs should be considered before moving forward on your path.

[14:32] - Planning Your Book— and Beyond

What to prepare for in advance

One of Naren’s best tips is that you should start acting like you have a book to sell, because if you wait until the end to market yourself and your ideas, it’s too late.

Successful authors have done the legwork to establish relationships, get people interested and invest in what they have to say. Once you make the ask to buy a book, it’s much more authentic and effective.

[16:06] - Common Mistakes to Avoid

What new authors do wrong— and how to make it right

One of the most common publishing mistakes for speakers? Not knowing who their audience is. And, for the record, “everybody” isn’t an acceptable answer. You have to define your target market early, often before you even begin writing.

RESOURCES:

[3:50] Amplify Publishing Group
[20:07] The Rise of Audiobooks

Follow Naren Aryal:

Official Bio

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by ImpactEleven.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

ABOUT eSPEAKERS:

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eSpeakers is where the speaking industry does business on the web. Speakers, speaker managers, associations, and bureaus use our tools to organize, promote and grow successful businesses. Event organizers think of eSpeakers first when they want to hire speakers for their meetings or events.

The eSpeakers Marketplace technology lets us and our partner directories help meeting professionals all over the world connect directly with speakers for great engagements.

Thousands of successful speakers, trainers, and coaches use eSpeakers to build their businesses and manage their calendars. Thousands of event organizers use our directories every day to find and hire speakers. Our tools are built for speakers, by speakers, to do things that only purpose-built systems can.

Learn more at: eSpeakers.com

Episode Transcription

Naren Aryal:

Hey look, here's 10 titles and here are the high level takeaways from each of the 10. Where does your book fit in? And if you can't tell me exactly how it's different, how it's unique in this space, then we've got some work to do on conceptualizing your book.

Josh Linkner:

Welcome to Mic Drop, the podcast for professional speakers. We cover the ins and outs of the business, helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages at higher fees. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by eSpeakers. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Get ready for some inspiring mic drop moments together.

Josh Linkner:

Today's show is sponsored by Impact Eleven formerly known as 3 Ring Circus, the best and most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers. They're not just elevating an industry we know and love, they work with hundreds of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses, earning tens of millions of speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. To learn more and schedule a free intro call, visit impacteleven.com, that's Impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. If you want more audiences and organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use eSpeakers to manage and grow their business. When you use eSpeakers, you'll feel confident about your business. Package yourself up for success and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30 day trial, visit espeakers.com/micdrop, that's espeakers.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

On today's episode of Mic Drop, I sit down with Naren Aryal, the founder and CEO of Amplify Publishing Group. He's actually not a keynote speaker, but he's published thousands of books, many for leaders in the speaking industry. In full disclosure, I invested in his company after seeing the remarkable impact he'd made on so many keynote speakers, but today's chat is no marketing plug. Instead, we discuss the ins and outs of book publishing and how a great book can fuel a speaking career. In today's conversation, we aim right at the fusion point of books and professional speaking, covering important topics for both aspiring and experienced authors, such as the three publishing models available to authors today, and how one shifts the royalty split dramatically in your favor, what speakers should be thinking about and planning for in advance of writing a book, the most common mistakes authors make and how to avoid those traps, and alternative formats, international distribution, and even derivative work rights. In our candid conversation, Naren shows us exactly what to do and not to do, to become a successful author. My good friend Naren, welcome to Mic Drop.

Naren Aryal:

Hey, Josh, happy to be here.

Josh Linkner:

So I've been really looking forward to our conversation. Many professional keynote speakers, the bedrock really of their speaking business has been a successful book. At the same time, the world of publishing is changing dramatically. It's becoming more and more difficult to get a book published. Advances are coming down, all the obstacles out there. So I'm really looking forward to the wisdom that you can share with our audience about publishing their own book, but maybe take us back a little bit and introduce us to your company, Amplify Publishing Group.

Naren Aryal:

Sure. Amplify Publishing Group is a hybrid publishing company, and what that means for those that don't know is we operate in the space between traditional publishing on one hand, and self-publishing on the other. The hallmark of high quality hybrid publishing is the ability to produce a book that is editorially as good as anything that the New York houses are producing. And we offer distribution and marketing along the lines of what you'd get if you published at, say Simon & Schuster, but the business model is a little bit different in that our authors contribute to the production related costs and in exchange for that, they get the line share on sales. And in our case, it's 85%.

Josh Linkner:

That was a very quick summary and you covered so much, I want to unpack some of that. So first of all, for those that are writing or considering writing a book, it sounds like there's three models. There's a traditional big publisher model on one end, there's a self-publisher model on the other end, and then there's you and other hybrid publishers in the middle. Can you walk us through what are the pros and cons of each of those models, if any?

Naren Aryal:

Yeah, absolutely. So I'll start with self-publishing first. I'll say this upfront, I'm a big fan of self-publishing, more and more authors are finding success self-publishing than ever before. The stigma that was associated with self-publishing is no longer there. So that is on the positive side for self-publishing. One of the drawbacks is unless you've got experience with things like cover design, editorial, book marketing, and book distribution, it can be difficult to get traction. There's a lot of content out there. So to get your content to stand out can be a challenge, particularly if you don't either have the experience or align yourself with experts. That's self-publishing.

Naren Aryal:

Traditional publishing on the other hand involves, it's what one thinks of when you think of one of the big New York houses, it involves getting your content to an agent who then pitches it to a large publishing house. The pros in terms of traditional publishing are they produce high quality books, they assume all the costs associated with publishing, but it also comes with a lot of competition in that it's really hard to get your book, first to an agent, and secondly, sold to a large publishing house. So, that leaves a lot of fantastic content that will never see the light of day. And so that's really opened up the middle ground, which is hybrid publishing, where we operate. For those that value editorial quality and beautiful book packaging, and access to marketing and distribution that is second to none, and again, as I mentioned, the business model is different than traditional publishing, and also the author experience is much different than self-publishing.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, very well said. The problem on the self-publishing part, as I see it, again, it's right for many people, not bashing that, but it's a DIY project. And if you are not a professional publisher I wouldn't shingle my house either because I'd probably do a lousy job of it. You do run the risk of a lower quality book that doesn't have the distribution and scale and gravitas that one might want. Being a commercially published author myself I'll tell you that it's a pain, I had a literary agent and then you have to do a book proposal, which is 50 pages. And then you shop at all these publishers who poke holes in it.

Josh Linkner:

And then eventually you get an advance, which is much lower than it used to be. And then you have a deadline. And then it's a pain, it takes forever. And by the time your book comes out, you've lost a lot of control, editorial control. And they can tell you what the cover's going to look like without your full buy-in. And then you've given up all these further rights too, if you ever want to do an audio derivative or a video game or a movie or something, it's very restrictive.

Josh Linkner:

So I'm actually looking forward to publishing my next book in the hybrid model. And so to me, it's not that I don't have access to a commercial publisher. It's just that I think the model is better for most authors in this hybrid model where you've got easier access, faster timelines, more control, and as you point out, much better royalties. Can you just dig in on the economics a little bit more? So, let's just do a side by side. Let's say I did a commercial publishing deal. And they gave me a $10,000 advance. And then it takes me two years to get my book out and I sell 10,000 copies of my book. Now let's say, instead of that commercial publishing deal, I worked with your firm. What would the economics look like after I sold that same 10,000 books?

Naren Aryal:

Yeah. So, let's use some round numbers. So let's say the retail price of your book is $30, which is pretty average for a thought leadership book. You're going to get 85% of sales. So the wholesale price, just to keep the numbers simple, are going to be $15. And so it is going to be $15. And we would take 15% of that $15 and you'd get 85% of that $15. So doing a little quick math here, you got your calculator out, Josh?

Josh Linkner:

Always.

Naren Aryal:

Okay. So $15 times 0.85 is $12 and 75 cents. And let's say that you sold 10,000 copies. That is a nifty $127,500. Now, of course, that doesn't... There's other factors like returns and the cost associated with producing the book, but that's just on the revenue side, what you'd be looking at.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. So, just doing the same math for a second, if I sold the same 10,000 books, but even if I got a good deal and I got 20% of the royalties, which is rare, but let's just say I did, that same $15 times 20% is three bucks a book, times 10,000 books. So now I have $30,000 to me versus a $127,000 to me.

Naren Aryal:

Yeah, that's right. But we should point out, I'm sorry to interrupt, but we should point out that you're going to be also contributing to the production related, so that's the gross number, a 127,5, but there are production related costs, of course.

Josh Linkner:

Exactly where I was going next. So the difference is that in the first model, I didn't have any out-of-pocket costs. Although I got an advance, in my $10,000 advance, but I still to burn that off, it wasn't a bonus of $10,000, it was simply in advance on future royalties. So in the model number one, I've netted out $30,000, let's say, that's the old model. Your model, as I understand it, is I might have $127,000 of revenue, but now I have to back out some costs because I had to have you and your company, I invested in the book. I had to do the cover design, the editing, the marketing, et cetera. But let's just say, I spent, I'm just going to make up a number, Naren, $60,000 with you. So, and still in one model, I have $67,000 versus the other model I have 30, I have more than double the profits. And furthermore, each time I sell the next book, the numbers work in my favor. Am I looking at that correctly?

Naren Aryal:

You are, you are. Generally speaking, those numbers are right.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. So for the author that sells 20,000 copies, or a hundred thousand copies, it really, the difference becomes even more exaggerated.

Naren Aryal:

That's right. And it's only right, because the author is risky, is taking on more risk. It's a risk reward equation.

Josh Linkner:

Which makes sense, it's a risk reward, like any business, if you invest in the business, you enjoy the rewards of it. And so besides having to invest in my own book, and I'm saying you Amplify, but also I'm referring to the whole hybrid category, what am I giving up? So, if I go with a hybrid publisher versus Simon & Schuster, the economics seem better, the timing seems better, the control's better. What am I giving up?

Naren Aryal:

Some folks are really tied to having their book come out with a particular label. And so I guess for some folks there's some value in that. I think that's the biggest, because I will tell you in terms of marketing, and let's handle each one of these one by one here, in terms of marketing, you know this having been an author, the author must be engaged. It's not like you can turn over the marketing to Simon & Schuster, unless, of course, you're an a lister. So you're going to be doing just as much marketing, whether you work with us or you work with Simon & Schuster. So you really don't give up anything there. Let's talk about distribution. Same is true. They're using the same distributors that we're using, it's Ingram and Amazon, and the airport markets, we have access to those same distributors. So you're not really giving up anything in terms of distribution.

Naren Aryal:

So, every case is different, but for the vast majority, you're not giving up anything. And frankly, a lot of the authors just aren't going to have the access to that channel, even if they wanted, whereas you obviously do, but some people won't have that access. So it becomes a moot point.

Josh Linkner:

And so as of, maybe five, 10 years ago, the notion of going with a "not a brand name publisher," was a little scary, but just thinking about some of the breakaway hits in the hybrid field, you've got David Goggins' book, which I know it sold millions of copies. My good friend, Mel Robbins went with a hybrid model, millions of copies sold, my friend, Phil M Jones sold, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of copies, if not a million copies with his book, Exactly What to Say. So are you seeing more and more of these, not just smaller numbers, but true breakaway, New York Times best sellers in the hybrid category?

Naren Aryal:

Yeah, we are. And we've actually worked on a few of those ourselves. And you also have the flexibility to distribute in a way that makes sense for you. We worked on this one book with a guy that's got 35 million Instagram followers, and he really wanted to maximize his price profit per book. And so we initially went out selling direct to consumer. He's got a captive audience and he's wildly popular and influential. And so we were able to customize a distribution that met his goals. And so I am seeing more and more, not only with the thought leader, but those that have the opportunity to publish to the big house, but for whatever reason, whether it's they want to hold on their IP, or they want to sell direct to consumer, there's a host of reasons that somebody might choose an alternative publishing pathway.

Josh Linkner:

Okay. So we've talked a lot about the various options in the publishing space. Let's now shift gears a little bit and talk about what an author, a speaker, should be thinking about as they look to publish a book. So, first question for you is what are a few pieces of wisdom and insight that a new author should be considering as they begin their book project?

Naren Aryal:

So I like to tell people that when they're writing their book is when they should start acting like they have a book to sell, because if you wait till the very end to market yourself and your ideas, it's too late, so you've got to start cultivating your audience, cultivating fans, cultivating people that care about what you say well in advance of the book's launch. And so that's the biggest piece of advice that I'd give authors, particularly those that haven't published before, because when you get that book and it's time to market it, it's not enough to say, hey everybody, I'm so and so, here's my new book, go buy it. It's amazing. No, the successful authors have done the legwork to establish relationships, to get people interested and invested in what they have to say. And then when you make that ask, it's just so much more authentic and effective.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. Just as an author myself, I couldn't agree more. I've worked with the largest publishing houses and you have this vision like, your book is published, you pen the great American book hardcover, you get out of the shower and you're whisked off in a limousine to fame and fortune and the publishers, good news, we just sold a million books. And that's about the equivalent of writing a unicorn on a rainbow to work every day, just ain't happening. And so, well, that's one thing I learned very early that I have to be the biggest advocate, the biggest ambassador for my book, or else it's just not going to happen. So I think that's a great piece of advice. So other than not doing that, I want to switch gears. Flip side of the question is, what are some of the most common mistakes that you see authors make? And so then we and the listeners can avoid those traps.

Naren Aryal:

Yeah. Sometimes we'll hear from folks that really truly don't understand who their target market is. And so, there's been many times where somebody has submitted a book proposal to me and asked a simple question, who's the target market? And I hear somebody say, everybody's going to love this book. And that's when I immediately start rolling my eyes, because what they've not done is truly understand who's going to care. So, that's one thing that I see quite a bit.

Josh Linkner:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions in annual income while driving massive impact on audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow route with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you are serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at Impact Eleven can help. From optimizing your marketing and business efforts, to crafting your ideal positioning, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills. Impact Eleven is the only speaker training and development program run by current high level speakers at the top of their field. That's why the major bureaus like Washington Speakers Bureau, Premier Speakers, SpeakInc, Executive Speakers, Harry Walker Agency, Keppler, Gotham Artists, and GDA all endorse and participate in Impact Eleven. From interactive boot camps to one-on-one coaching, if you are looking to take your speaking career to the next level, they'll help you make a bigger impact faster. For a free 30 minute consultation, visit impacteleven.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

You and I have talked about this in the past too, but it could be one target per market, or it could be a number of different personas. So for me, for example, I read on innovation and one persona could be an innovation practitioner, a leader in a big company. Another one could be an entrepreneur that's looking to take an innovative approach to their business. Another one could be a professor, for example. So, in my case, I don't have unlimited, like everyone's going to love my book, but there's a finite number of use cases. And then, of course, I can market the book accordingly. Is that good advice for an author? And how would you build upon that advice?

Naren Aryal:

That's sound advice. Very good advice. And then the other thing that I would say is really understand what success looks like for your particular project. And so, success can be anything from selling 50,000 books, but you can also have a successful book if you sell 2,500, but those 2,500 end up in the hands of booking agents or companies that might hire you to provide a seminar, really understand what success looks like and make sure you make every decision along the way, all the way from editorial to book marketing that helps you achieve that particular aim or those aims.

Josh Linkner:

Such a good point, because really what we're talking about is monetizing thought leadership, monetizing a point of view, and there are many ways to monetize it. And they all interconnect. So someone writes a book, they sell 50,000 copies, they make some royalties, but they might make 80 times more than that by being a brand ambassador, or maybe the book allows them to get on more stages. And as a professional keynote speaker, they make many times more than that in speaking fees. So I think, at least the way I look at it and advise people to look at it is you have a body of work, and you want to use interconnected pieces of distribution to create overall monetization for your thought leadership. Is there anything you'd add to that?

Naren Aryal:

So the book is an important piece of your content platform. You should never think about it as the only piece, because you're destined to fail at that point.

Josh Linkner:

What's going on, on alternative formats? Again, 40 years ago there was a hardcover book and that was it. Now we have audio, we have eBooks, we have book summaries. What trends are you seeing? I've heard that audio books are way up, but maybe you could elaborate on some of the trends that we're seeing in terms of books and format.

Naren Aryal:

Sure. First of all, physical books, they are here to stay despite what you may have heard. Physical book sales increased by 10% from 19 to 20, and then roughly 10% again this past year. So some of that is pandemic driven, but physical books are up. eBooks have flattened and actually taken a slight downward dip. And a lot of that has to do with the surge in audiobooks. So physical books up, eBooks flat, audiobooks up.

Josh Linkner:

And when you say audiobooks up, give us a sense of how up.

Naren Aryal:

The last numbers I saw are about 15% since the start of the pandemic. So significant.

Josh Linkner:

And the cool thing is, for a speaker, by the way, especially someone who's looking to get booked as a speaker, is that when they can hear you delivering your own content, they can hear your inflections and your voice, it's almost a better format for a potential buyer to hear you not just read you. So, yeah, that's fascinating. What about international? Are many of your authors hitting pay dirt on foreign soil?

Naren Aryal:

Yeah. We're seeing a lot of activity in the translation and foreign rights deals, and those are really interesting deals in that, they're structured where you get some lump sum initially, and we're not talking about huge numbers for most authors, and you know this having been through this, but there's also a royalty component that once you earn out the initial payment, just like the deals that we talked about earlier. And so the challenge there is to get as much as you possibly can up front, because you don't necessarily want to count on the reporting from, fill in the blank country, but we're doing a good number of those deals as well.

Josh Linkner:

Obviously when you write a book, you're doing it as an act of service and generosity, sharing your ideas with the world. One little selfish thing I'll just share as an author. It is the coolest thing ever when you open up a package and like, here's my book in Thai language, or here's my book in Mandarin. And it's really cool because foreign rights deals, they will redesign your book cover. And the only thing you could recognize is your own name and your own photo. And they do make a very cool display pieces on your bookshelf. It's a lot of fun.

Naren Aryal:

I'm holding up a book, a German edition of a book that we did and same thing. Just it's cool you recognize the name, but that's about it.

Josh Linkner:

Then there really is a lot of joy. I've had the great honor of getting people, calling me up, "Hey, my team and I just read your book in India, we took three months off and worked on your content and now we want to share our findings." It is neat as an author, you share in a blind way, you're sharing all these ideas out into the world and you never know how they're going to land, or how they're going to come back to you other than the fact that it certainly is going to be a life changing event. So back to... I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about content. So one of the complaints that I have with many thought leadership authors is that they write a book that's already been written basically. They say things like what's the topic of my book, leadership. Well, what do you say? Be a good communicator, go for it, work hard. And those things aren't wrong. Those are not bad pieces of advice, they're just overused pieces of advice. In other words, that's content that we already know.

Josh Linkner:

So for me, I always, I love when an author takes an oppositional approach. They confront conventional wisdom rather than comply with it. And to me, that's really what a thought leader is, is they help reshape the way you think about something rather than confirming existing beliefs. So what do you do, Naren, when an author shows up and says, I want to write a book called, Go for it. And you say, the book has already been written. How do you handle that? How do you coach that author who I'm sure is well intentioned and willing to do the work into something that's able to cut through rather than just blend in?

Naren Aryal:

Yeah, that's a great question. And so what I like to do is go right onto Amazon and do some analysis of all the books that are out there in this vein. And I'll turn it right back to the author and say, hey, look, here's 10 titles and here are the high level takeaways from each of the 10. Where does your book fit in? And if you can't tell me exactly how it's different, how it's unique in this space, then we've got some work to do on conceptualizing your book.

Josh Linkner:

I'll share two little tricks that I like, one I call it the competitive swap test. And so if my book is about teamwork, and I can pull my name off and stick another author's name on there, and the book still holds, there is no differentiator. It only works as if you pull your name off and stick someone else there no longer works, then you've got something. So that's number one, competitive swap test. Number two is, I love the following phrase. And I just want to share this with our listeners. It goes like this, most people think blank, but the truth is blank. If you can complete that phrase, you are onto something. And I'll just give you a couple examples from breakaway successful books, Simon Sinek, Start with Why. Most people think people buy your products because of what it is, but the truth is they buy it for why you do it. Start with Why.

Josh Linkner:

Brene Brown, most people think that vulnerability is something to hide, but truly vulnerability is a core asset for our success. Most recently, Daniel Pink, who lives right there, your neck of the woods, Naren, in DC, regret. Most people think regret should be avoided at all costs, but the truth is regret is what makes us human. So when you are able to reveal a surprising truth, instead of confirm an existing belief, to me then you're onto something. How do you reconcile that perhaps with some of the authors that you've worked with?

Naren Aryal:

Yeah. Great points there, Josh. One of the things that I like to challenge our authors to do is, and well, this does answer your question is, is come up with a framework, come up with a model, come up with something that's unique to you and come up with a catch phrase. Everyone knows the five second rule. If you can come up with something like that, you're 80% of the way there.

Josh Linkner:

Speak of catch phrases, the old adage, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. It was born because what do people do? They judge a book by its cover. So maybe any insights or tips on cover design on what we should be thinking about as authors as we know that we're going to be judged based on the cover.

Naren Aryal:

Yeah. Listen to experts, please, listen to experts. One of the things we talked about in terms of the hybrid model is the author gets final say, editorial approval, cover design at various points of the way the author can decide and approve. Most of the time our authors will listen to our advice because at the end of the day, they're hiring us for this expertise. But every once in a while, we'll get an author that is stubborn and they insist that this is the cover and this is the way it should look, especially with a business book or a thought leadership book, you've got a little rectangle. You can be creative within that little rectangle, but there's some rules that you should not violate.

Naren Aryal:

And so having done many of these, we know what sells in the marketplace and we know what's a good thought leadership cover. Sometimes our clients have a different idea, and there is some give and take, but it is critical. And I'll give you a quick story. We had one author who insisted he wanted cover A, we asked this person to go with cover B. We took cover A, his cover, to Hudson News and said, hey, we want place this in the airport market. And Hudson flat out denied it because of the cover. So there's some real ramifications, business ramifications for making the wrong decision relative to the cover.

Josh Linkner:

Well, it just gets back to your earlier point about trusting the experts. And obviously in this case you guys are certainly the experts. One other quick question I wanted to ask you, Naren, would you maybe walk us through an author journey? You could either pick an author, a favorite author of yours by name, or just leave it nameless, but how does it start? They come to you with what, how does it evolve? Maybe just walk us through the process from that first phone call to the point where they've got that book in Hudson or Barnes & Noble or any of the other retailers.

Naren Aryal:

Sure. There's an author that I'm working closely with right now, I'll share her name and plug her book, Kristen Ziman. She was the chief of police in Aurora, Illinois. She was unfortunately, or fortunately there when there was a mass shooting in her community, she's no longer the chief of police in Aurora. She came to us through an introduction. She had this beautiful memoir written and it was really good, interesting backstory she's a wonderful, amazing woman. And we challenged her in the editorial phase to include some policing issues of the day and her take on some of these issues that would move this project from memoir to current affairs. And we went back and forth and we finally developed a manuscript that everyone was very happy with. And the book is coming out August 2nd. And the pre-publicity has been fantastic, it's called Reimagining Blue.

Naren Aryal:

And because of the publicity and the media hits that she's gotten, the department of justice took notice and they invited her to be an expert, the contributor to the Uvalde school shooting analysis in terms of the police response. And so, not only is it a great book, not only does it tell her story, but because of this book, she's really making a difference and impacting lives. And so that's a great example. And I think of this and there are others, but I think of this one because it's something that I was working on this morning.

Josh Linkner:

It's funny, the name of your company is Amplify, and really you helped her amplify her message, and in turn amplify her impact. Now she's making a contribution in obviously a very difficult situation, but one where someone with her expertise can really make a positive impact and hopefully prevent a future tragedy like this from occurring.

Naren Aryal:

Yeah. I'm sorry, one last point about that is she's no longer policing, and she's doing keynote speaking and she's being invited for interviews all the time. And so she's really made a nice transition from her past profession into this space of thought leadership and keynote speaking. And so we're really proud of her.

Josh Linkner:

It's funny that you say that, I've seen that many times where someone really achieved some remarkable level of success in one area of life. Maybe they were a business leader, maybe they were politician or a civil servant and, or athlete, Hall of Fame athlete, et cetera, and now they want to transition to a new chapter in their professional life. And often I've seen that a book can be the perfect segue. It helps cement their opinions and their views, and opens up the door to this next new chapter. Have you seen that play out in many cases with your authors?

Naren Aryal:

Yeah. Quite a bit. And so, if you're a CEO and you're leaving your company, but you happen to be an expert because the company does X, Y, Z, and then you decide you want to go to a different direction, it all, many times it starts with the book and I see that on a daily basis here.

Josh Linkner:

So as we wrap things up, Naren, I want to get personal with a couple questions. One is we talked about Simon Sinek's, Why, Start with Why. What's your why? Why are you doing this? Why are you passionate about helping authors get their message out there in the world?

Naren Aryal:

That's a great question. So some people know this, but I started this company because we self-published a children's book for my daughter who was three years old. And I had no intentions of being in the world of books, but this cute little story came out. And obviously my daughter was thrilled, but readers enjoyed it, families enjoyed it. And it started me on this publishing journey. And that was 19 years ago, but today what I read the most and what I enjoy is business and thought leadership, and that's a bulk of what we do, the big part of what we do at Amplify. And so I get to work on projects that I read on a daily basis when I'm not working. So it doesn't feel like work and just the opportunity to interact and meet so many amazing people with really smart people that have a lot to share and have a real desire to impact lives, it's just gratifying.

Josh Linkner:

So good. Well, I'm going to give you two last questions. One is very tactical and one is much more deep. So, I'll start with the tactical one. What are a couple book recommendations that you have? They could be Amplify, they don't have to be, but have you read any books that you really liked in the last, I don't know, six, 12 months that you want to recommend to our listeners?

Naren Aryal:

Sure, sure. Well, I'm going to stick to Amplify because I'm going to stick to Amplify. A good friend of mine, Greg Scheinman. I've known him for 20 years and he's written a book called, The Midlife Male. That's his entire platform. He's a social media influencer. And he helps men of middle age maximize middle age. And so, me being a middle age man, me knowing Greg Scheinman, it's really a book that's hit home for me. And I found myself improved because of it. And so isn't that what we want as readers at the end of the day?

Josh Linkner:

Well, then I'll just end with one last question, you've been in this business a long time, 19 years, and I know you're committed to being into it for many years to come. What is your wish for the world of publishing? What is your wish for the world of authors looking to get their message out there? In a perfect world, you've got your magic wand, you can create the future of this game, what does it look like five or 10 years from now?

Naren Aryal:

So, one of the things that has happened is publishing has really opened up. And so that's been fantastic, whereas 10, 15 years ago, a lot of people just couldn't get their ideas out there. And so it's really heartening to see that happen. And so what I'd like to see moving forward is just more access, and it doesn't have to be necessarily in the hybrid space or the traditional space or the self-publishing space, more access. And I think what will happen as a result is we're going to see content that speaks to different people who are interested in different things. So that's my hope in the next five, 10 years.

Josh Linkner:

I love it. What a great place to leave our conversation. Naren, thanks for your effort to lead the industry forward. Thanks for helping to bring so many voices and so many perspectives to the world. And thanks for being a guest here on Mic Drop.

Naren Aryal:

Excellent. Thank you, Josh. Appreciate it.

Josh Linkner:

I really like Naren's no BS insights on publishing. A few reflections. Number one, writing a book is a work of art, but it's also a business proposition. Just like any successful business, it needs planning, investment and a relentless focus on the target customer. Number two, books and keynote speaking go hand in hand, with one driving the other's success. Well, not for everyone, a successful book can be one of the most effective ways to launch and scale your speaking practice. And number three, say something unique. Don't write someone else's book. The world craves and will pay handsomely for originality. Steer clear of the platitudes and cliches, favoring fresh and original. There's no doubt that the world of publishing will continue to evolve, and there's no doubt that Naren's Amplify Publishing Group will continue to pave the way for authors and keynote speakers. Books have moved the world since the beginning of civilization. And while there's plenty of competition, putting your ideas in print can help you maximize both impact and success.

Josh Linkner:

Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. And a big thanks to our sponsor at Impact Eleven. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks for listening and here's to your mic drop moment.