In this episode of Mic Drop, Josh sits down with Carla Johnson, a globally recognized expert on innovation and creativity, to discuss how to break past limiting beliefs and drive greater impact in life and business. Carla shares her journey from studying architecture to becoming a leading innovation strategist and speaker. They explore her unique perspective as an “innovation architect” and how she has successfully blended creativity with structure. Throughout the conversation, Carla highlights the power of curiosity, how speakers can cultivate it, and why it's essential to question the status quo. She also reveals her approach to constantly re-evaluating and improving her own work, as well as offering practical strategies for speakers to stand out in a crowded market.
Carla Johnson is a world-renowned keynote speaker, author of ten books, and a master of connecting the dots between creative problem-solving, strategy, and customer experience. She is best known for helping leaders and organizations cultivate innovative thinking and apply it to everyday business challenges. Carla’s innovative approach earned her the title of the world’s leading innovation architect, working with Fortune 500 brands, startups, and associations to rethink how they innovate and achieve breakthrough results. Her latest book, Rethink Innovation, provides a roadmap for unlocking creativity and achieving bottom-line impact.
Defining and Conquering Your "Three-Story Limit": Carla’s concept of the "Three-Story Limit" is a powerful metaphor for the boundaries we often unknowingly impose on ourselves. Just as early architects believed buildings couldn’t exceed three stories, people often set limits on their potential. By identifying these hidden barriers and confronting them directly, leaders and innovators can break through constraints and reach new heights, just as William LeBaron Jenney did with the world’s first skyscraper.
Cultivating Curiosity as a Strategic Advantage: Curiosity, according to Carla, is the foundational skill that drives all forms of creative thinking and problem-solving. By intentionally pausing to understand a problem fully and resisting the urge to jump to quick solutions, professionals can uncover unconventional insights. Carla suggests applying curiosity in structured ways, such as reframing problems, examining them from multiple perspectives, and exploring ideas to their extreme possibilities.
Exposing the Hidden Costs of the Status Quo: Carla argues that maintaining the status quo often carries a hidden cost—stagnation and loss of relevance. She challenges organizations and individuals to evaluate whether their “safest” path is actually putting them at risk of obsolescence. By constantly questioning accepted norms and pushing for bold experimentation, people can unlock new growth opportunities and avoid the trap of complacency.
Applying the Concept of "Expiration Dates" to Drive Continuous Reinvention: To prevent content and strategies from becoming stale, Carla introduces the idea of assigning “expiration dates” to everything from keynotes and speaker reels to messaging and business strategies. This practice encourages regular re-evaluation, keeping ideas fresh and compelling. It’s not about change for the sake of change but rather about embracing a mindset of continuous renewal to remain relevant and impactful in a rapidly evolving world.
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ABOUT MIC DROP:
Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.
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ABOUT THE HOST:
Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.
On the business front, he’s been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he’s helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He’s twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.
While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world’s foremost experts on innovation. Josh
is the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he’s on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.
Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com
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As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown’s processes to launch today’s most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits.
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Carla Johnson:
If we aren't willing to invest five or $10,000 in our own growth or our own profession or our own skills, why would somebody else be willing to invest that much money in us as speakers? So I think when we go through the professional growth process, it can help us understand the value that we bring.
Josh Linkner:
Hey, friends, Josh Linkner here. Delighted to bring you season three of Mic Drop, the number one podcast for professional speakers and thought leaders on the show. We connect with experts at the top of the field unpacking their success to help each of us grow and thrive from elevating your artistry to booking more gigs. Mic Drop is designed to give you the tools and insights you need to reach the next level. Together we'll accelerate the path to growth, success, and most importantly, impact
ImpactEleven Sponsor:
The best keynotes, start movements and incite change. And when you couple an electrifying speech with a project that fuels audience engagement, the result is lightning in a bottle. What I'm talking about here is a book that's where our friends at Amplify Publishing Group come in With 20 plus years of experience and hounded by some of the industry's most renowned veterans, including bestselling author and global superstar, Mel Robbins, the team at Amplify knows not only how to produce a fantastic book, but how to leverage that book and make it work for you, your brand and your business. And Amplify not only knows books, they know the world of keynote speaking and thought leadership. Having published CEOs and executives, they take positioning into consideration at every step of the way. Whether you have a one line concept or a comprehensive outline, amplify is ready to work with you. Visit amplifypublishing.com/micdrop to schedule an exploratory call and receive an exclusive editorial one pager tailored to your concept. That's amplifypublishing.com/micdrop.
Josh Linkner:
Welcome to Mic Drop. Today I'm joined by Carla Johnson, the world's leading innovation architect and a powerhouse speaker who's all about breaking limits, literally and figuratively. Carla's path is rooted in her insatiable curiosity and a fascinating career path that spans architecture, marketing, and storytelling. From studying the structure of world famous buildings to crafting memorable stories, Carla has developed a unique ability to connect seemingly unrelated dots and unlock creativity and impact. In today's episode, Carla shares her insights on avoiding perceived limits In our thinking and our practices. We dive into what it means to be an innovation architect and how blending disciplines can make you not just a solid speaker, but a standout speaker. We also explore how curiosity serves as a powerful tool for crafting memorable experiences. The concept of putting dates on your work to stay fresh and relevant, and why embracing discomfort is a key to growth. One of the highlights of our conversation is Carla's story about how a chance observation led to the invention of the skyscraper and how we can identify our own three story limits to break through the status quo. Carla Johnson, welcome to Mic Drop.
Carla Johnson:
Thank you, Josh. It's really fun to be here. I've, uh, I'm a long time listener.
Josh Linkner:
Well, I'm grateful for your time today. I know you're super busy and we're excited to learn about you and, and the impact you're making. Before we get into your speaking practice, which I know is very robust, um, you've had a really interesting background. You studied architecture, you've written like 6,000 books. Can you just give us a quick backstory before we get into your current practice of, of what led you to the point where you are now in in your speaking career?
Carla Johnson:
I think the, the one thread that has come throughout my, um, career and the work that I've done is really curiosity. And I think that curiosity has led me, that's what led me into to architecture where I worked in, in marketing and business development and learning from design architects. Like how do they go through the process of coming up with the ideas that result in some of the most amazing and gorgeous and stunning and, and buildings like that. And then learning from them. And, and I really took what I learned from them as designers and applied it to how I approach marketing, which was a majority of my background. And I always had kind of that, that different perspective. And I was curious about the companies that represented in the products that they develop and how they came up with the ideas. And I was always the marketer hanging out with the engineers and, and wanting to know the, all the backstory and, and how they got their ideas.
And then I remember, um, I, uh, was speaking at an event after one of my books came out about how to create story driven experiences. And a woman came up to me afterwards and, and I remember it was, it was one of those things that really sticks with you, Josh. She wouldn't look me in the eye and she said, I, I love your ideas, but I am just not an idea person. And I really truly believe in my heart that everybody is an idea person. I think we've just lost touch with what that looks like for each of us. And that really sent me down the rabbit hole of is there a way that we can look at innovative thinking and creative problem solving that really connects with the everyday person, whether you are an employee at a company, whether you work for an association, whether you're a volunteer at the PTA, that really makes you feel empowered and, and equipped and, and that you can make an impact with your ideas.
Josh Linkner:
One of the things I love about your background is that you, you did a few different things and then they all fused together into what really, what I believe is you're calling what you're doing now. You know, you studied architecture, you studied marketing, you studied storytelling, and then all of those things combine together in in, in such a beautiful way. And, and one thing I think is interesting for listeners is that you may have a, a weird set of backgrounds that don't feel like they connect. Like I, I have a jazz background, but it somehow plays into my body of work speaking wise. So tho those, those unusual experiences are, are an asset, not a liability. And then the other thing I think is cool is that you use it to really stand out. You're not an innovation speaker, you're the world's leading innovation architect. So can you unpack that for us? What is an innovation architect? How did, how did, how did that whole concept come to life?
Carla Johnson:
You know, I, I talk about working at that intersection between like structure and creativity. So I say if Frank Lloyd Wright and Lady Gaga had a love child, what would you get? You know, me the world's leading innovation archite. Because when I look at the world of architecture, there's so much about structure and design and balance and how things that don't really seem to make sense can come together and have balance and, and structure and really form the way that we think and we move through the world every day. And I think about Frank Lloyd Wright, he was incredibly prolific throughout his career. I mean, he was 89 years old when he designed the Guggenheim Museum. And so when we think about how we can show up in the world as innovative thinkers, it's not something that we do just for part of our, our career or when we're look looking at working on a certain type of project or anything like this.
It's a way that we look at the world. And then I look at Lady Gaga, and one of the things that people I work with, or audience I've spoken with have said is like, you're just so different and a breath of fresh air and, and so relatable. And I think of that with Lady Gaga. Now granted, I don't wear a meat dress or anything like that, but I do look at how can we, um, surprise and delight people in ways that make them feel good and bring them into the process. And I think Lady Gaga does an amazing job of all of that. And so as I look at how I put all of these different things together, I used to get a lot of grief about being somebody who's a, um, a jack of all trades and a master of none. I just say my runway was a little bit longer. And, and, you know, creativity is about co connecting all the dots. And I just took a long time to collect a whole lot of dots that now really have come together and make a lot of sense.
Josh Linkner:
And, and it's so good because, you know, again, many speakers are trying to, they're sort of stand out. They may be in a big category like innovation, like customer service, like, like high performance, but how do you, how do you stand out as something that's really compelling and unique cut through the noise? And you are not just an innovation speaker. You are the world's leading innovation architect. And the positioning around if Frank Lloyd Wright and Lady Gaga had a love child that you, that, that would be you. That's brilliant. I just love, because you're using these external reference points and now someone can instantly get a picture in their mind what it is. They get a feeling and a vibe, and it just, it's such brilliant positioning, uh, and there's no wonder that you're continuing to to, to thrive and delight audiences. Um, I'd love to Drake dig into your, your fascinating fascination with curiosity. Um, to me curiosity is very much the building block of innovation, the building block of progress. How do people cultivate curiosity? And specifically for keynote speakers that might be listening, what are some ways that we can cultivate curiosity in, in the craft, in the industry and the business to move our practices forward?
Carla Johnson:
There's a couple ways that I really look at curiosity, and I think one of the most important things is whatever our work is that we do, and I know I get guilty of this, especially when I'm under a deadline, is that we look to find the immediate right answer right away. And I think when we're always looking for the one right answer, we're missing a whole lot of opportunities for other potential answers and other things that we can try and discover. And so when we think about curiosity, one of the things that I think is really a great tactic to do, which to be honest, Josh, I learned from you, was to really sit back and really look at the problem and just sit with the problem and look at it from all degrees and, and all angles. Because a lot of times we rush to the answer and we don't take time to fully understand the problem.
So I think just sitting with the problem, sitting with our challenge and really, truly understanding what it means, it does a lot of things. One, it it helps bring about conversations on teams that we don't normally have. And that's one of the beautiful things about collaborating as a team or if you work across teams or with a group of people, is that everybody has that different perspective. And when we try to jump to the answer, we miss the opportunity of seeing all of these different perspectives of people who are involved with the situation. And when we can sit there and just ask questions rather than adamantly look for answers, we oftentimes see that the problem isn't exactly the problem that we thought it was. And that gives us a huge opportunity to learn more about our customers, more about our team, more about whatever our situation is before us.
And I think the next thing that we do is that once we understand that problem, again, we try to find the one right exact answer. And so I talk about how can we take something that is interesting to us, something that feels different, delightful, enticing, and really go down the rabbit hole with this, with it, you know, really look at what are all the things we could do? How could we meld different things? Like I've done, you know, architecture and travel and marketing and all of these different things. What does it look like when we start to smash them together and almost take it beyond what we would normally do? You know, many times if we do a strategy session or a brainstorm, we come out with eight or 10 ideas and think, you know, that's pretty good, but what if you took each of those ideas and just ran to the point of absurdity with them?
One is that you see, your mind opens up and you have a lot more opportunities for creativity that you didn't see before. But two, there's always those undiscovered potentials that come about when we don't stop too soon. And then I like to talk about, you know, curiosity. What what would it be like to be a NASCAR driver in a surgical suite? You know, that's something that actually happened at a children's hospital in, in London. They were having some, uh, quality issues that they were looking at how they could reduce error rates. And they said, the people who work in a Formula one pit stop have just as much life and death critical nature to the work that they do. So this children's hospital invited the pit stop crew from Ferrari to come in and work with them. So, you know, swapping hats, how do you think like somebody different?
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, I love that. And to me as speakers, you know, thought leaders, people that have a message on their heart that they wanna share with the world, you know, just following a a an existing pathway is not necessarily the best route. And to be curious about, you know, the needs of our, of our clients, the needs of, of, of planners and, and bureau of folk alike, and, um, you know, that curiosity leads to breakthroughs. There's no question about it. You know, speaking of, of doing things differently, I love, on your site, you really are prompting people. It's very provocative. Like what's the status quo costing you? It's the first thing you see on your website, which I think is such a great prompt. You know, what if your safest bet is actually a riskiest move? And, and that the status quo, which we think is safe and comfy and cozy is actually there's a cost to that. Can you expand on that concept and, and again, how, how that might apply to a speaker that is, you know, doing okay, but, but, but what, what staying still could really cost?
Carla Johnson:
You know, I think back, like early in my career, one of the things that people would talk about is, um, nobody got fired for hiring IBM, you know, true. But to me now in the world that we live in and, and with all the change that we have, just doing something so you don't get fired is probably the worst path and worst decision that you can take. So no, nobody got fired, but who knows if they ever got promoted. So I think when, when we look at even our message as speakers and we think, well, what can I say that isn't necessarily going to rile up an audience or, or won't have, uh, I won't say something that makes somebody mad at me or something like that. I think it's our duty in a way as speakers to make sure that we are provocative in what we say and what we think.
Because I think how we serve our audiences is to provoke them to think differently, to, to look at the world that they live in and the work that they do from a completely different perspective. Because that's the only way that we start to think about what's the impact that I could make. Because if I just keep doing what I've always, I've always done, there's a huge, huge, uh, reality that'll probably become irrelevant. And so as speakers, how can we help people in our audiences along that path to push 'em a little bit, make them slightly uncomfortable, or even sometimes really, really uncomfortable. But I think it's in that un uncomfortable space that we do start to see, well, maybe there's something else out there. Maybe there's an idea waiting for me that if I would just take the time to sit with my problem, you know, sit with my challenge, that I can discover something different. So I think when we, when we stick with the status quo, one is it doesn't help us grow as people and speakers. And I think being able to push what we want our audiences to really think about a wonderful opportunity for what we do as a profession.
Josh Linkner:
And you've done that quite a bit. I mean, you know, I've known you now for, for several years and I've seen you continue to, to, um, reinvent yourself and, and step into, you know, this better version of yourself and your practice is doing well. What are some of the things that you've done to disrupt your own status quo over these last couple years in your speaking practice?
Carla Johnson:
I think the biggest thing that I've done is to become a part of a community like impact 11 of people who are so far above where I'm at in my career. I think for me, if I were just to stay, you know, in a community where I didn't really feel that uncomfortable where I always thought I was doing pretty good, I think that's me choosing to stick with the status quo. But when you surround yourself with people who constantly push you and, and challenge you in the best of ways and uplift you along the way and show you what's possible, I think that's the biggest opportunity that I've had, is to discover people who can help me and, and show me a different way that I can make an impact and have that opportunity and then really roll up my sleeves and, and get down to work and do the really, really hard uncomfortable gritty day-to-day work that it takes to make the outcome as good as it can possibly be.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, that's awesome. And I think about our industry a lot, and I think that, um, my belief, I'd love to, to kind of stress test this with you, is that we are on the precipice of massive change in the speaking industry, um, in the same way that like the travel agency world became, you know, completely disrupted. And I think many speakers and bureaus and planners are alike, are really not, um, as, as aware that, that there's gonna be a sea change. And, and to me, you know, all the signs are, are there, you know, in other industries when, when, uh, information starts to flow, there's no barriers of of access or information, when friction in the buying process starts to change, but inventory becomes more accessible and transparent, you start to have a more fluid and open marketplace. And I think that's what's gonna happen in the speaking industry.
And so when I see people that are really provocative and pushing the boundaries, I feel good for them because it's not that they're gonna be a hundred percent right, but at least they're, they're adapting to the change. But I hear people say, well, you know, we know what we're good at. We're gonna stick to our knitting. You know, we, you know, don't, don't chase anything new. You know, I, I really worry about those folks, whether it's a speaker or a bureau or a planner. What are your thoughts? I mean, do you feel like the industry is at, is at the precipice of change? And if so, how whatcha doing to prepare for that change?
Carla Johnson:
You know, I, I totally agree with you, Josh. I think it is right on that tipping point. Something big's going to happen. I'm not sure what that will be or what it looks like, but I think there's always signs that changes in the works. And whether we choose to see it and acknowledge it and prepare for whatever that uncertainty is, is whether or not we're going to, you know, hold on and just white knuckle it through and who knows if we'll make it or we're really going to step into it and, and thrive. And I think about things like, um, how long AI has truly been coming along our way. I was talking to a gentleman the other day and he said, I've been talking to my industry since 2010, 2012 about ai, and it's coming, it's coming. And people didn't wanna really pay any attention to him because they said, you know, it's not here now.
It's not a concern that we need to have. And then you look, holy smokes here came chat GBT and everybody's, you know, all, all topsy-turvy and how do, what do we do with it? And there's, there's some people who've stepped into it. There's other people who are waiting to see and others who are just, I'm fearful, I don't wanna deal with it. And I think for us as speakers in, in the entire event planning and and event industry, we have to be willing to look at what am I doing now and how long have I been doing it? And then, and then again step into what are some of the other industries that have been totally upended like, like travel, and what can I learn from their experience that can help me prepare for whatever's coming in this industry?
Josh Linkner:
It's so good. It's so good. One of the things I've been kicking around in my own mind is the notion of expiration dates. So, you know, like on a carrot car of milk, there's an expiration date, obviously, and you don't wanna go past the expiration date. Well, why wouldn't we put expiration dates on just about everything? So, you know, you launch a new speaker rail, put an expiration date on it, but launch, launch a new website or a speaking topic or, or you know, you are opening sequence to a, you know, if you have an expiration date on it is just a prompt to ask you to reevaluate it. So for example, let's say you put an expiration date on your speaker reel, 12 months out and 12 months out, you, you re-look at the speaker reel, how's your practice going? What's going on in the world?
And you might determine, it's awesome, keep it, don't change this for the sake of it, keep it for another year, but put a new expiration date on it as opposed to when you launch something. We have a sense in our in business that it's like there's a permanence to it. Oh, my website is done, my speaking reel is done, my keynote is done. And, and man, you know, back to your point about what's the status quo costing you, I think that's really scary. And I, I just like this notion of, hey, let's just stick an expiration date on, so on and just about everything simply as a prompt, as a reminder to, to reexamine, reevaluate, and then determine does it need to be, uh, reinvented?
Carla Johnson:
And I also think like whatever our subjects are that we, that we cover as speakers, like you and I talk about innovation and creativity, you know, as, as we work along on our, on our keynotes and we do the research, like, I remember when I launched my new website earlier this year already, I had a list of things that I will do differently for the next version, you know, that I figured would be 12 to 18 months. And I think as we continue to do research and look at our stories and make sure that everything that we share is relevant, it's kind of like, if you think about always going on a road trip and there's constant stops for, for fuel, for snacks, you know, you, you have to fuel that process all the way along. And sometimes the, the path that you take to get from one place to another is different. But I think without your point of an expiration date and, and taking time to reevaluate, is what I'm talking about actually still relevant or have I been give, giving the same keynote for the last five 10, sometimes even 20 years? And, and does it have that relevancy? And I think that's one of our responsibilities as speakers is to make sure that we're constantly looking at are we as relevant as we can be to our audiences and the people who we work with?
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Josh Linkner:
One time when you and I were, were hanging out together and, and brainstorming ideas, and I just love the way your mind works. You were telling me a story about an, an architect and a in a building in New York City and an elevator and that, that that person had to see things really differently to take that leap forward, to bust outta the status quo and ultimately to make history. Can you maybe give us a sense of that or, or a shortened version of that story? 'cause I think it's, first of all, it's a beautiful story and you know, it showcase of your amazing storytelling. But, but, but even more, more important probably to listeners is the underlying principle of what happened there.
Carla Johnson:
Yeah, absolutely. So I don't, I don't know why, but for some reason I've been fascinated by the little signs in elevators that talk about the inspectors. So I pay a lot of attention to elevators in, in places that I go. And I happen to come across this story of an architect and he had this challenge, it was in the, the late 18 hundreds, and his name was William. And so William was an architect during a time of the industrial revolution where essentially buildings were built out of two materials. It was either stone or wood, and neither of those were very conducive to buildings that had very many stories. And as cities grew and as, um, the demand for more businesses and businesses grew and housing, he saw that in urban areas like New York and Chicago and San Francisco, that there was a need to go up versus out because the cities were expanding, you know, in ways that they could only go in in two or three stories.
But this, this big barrier was there. And buildings at the time could really only be built at about three stories. So the profession coined it, the three story limit. So you can build anything that you want as long as it's not taller than three stories. And so when he was thinking about this three story limit, he said there out there has to be a way that we can figure this out. And of all places, he came home from work one night and he happened to see his wife sitting on a chair in the living room and she was reading a book. And when he came in, she put the book down next to her and came across the room. And like all of us, when we come home from the end of a long, stressful day or significant other is there to greet us. And so he gives her a hug, and then when he hugs her, he happens to look like over her shoulder and he sees the answer to this problem, and he goes over and he picks up her book.
And it turns out that when she put the book down, she put it on top of the bird cage and it made the perfect shape of a roof on top of a metal structure. And so in that instant, by just being attentive and aware and mindful and present during his day, he found the answer to a problem that had stopped in not even just an entire industry of architecture, but a business and the growth potential. And so he was able to break through that three story limit. And that was what led to the first skyscraper that we've ever known, the home insurance building in Chicago, Illinois. So you think about a skyscraper now and the bial kif and you know how high they are, the first building that broke the three story limit was only 14 stories tall, but it was because of, you know, elevators. And it was because of being able to understand a structure that could support what could happen. And, and these are all little elements that we can think of as we look at what's our own three story limit that we're putting on what we believe is possible.
Josh Linkner:
I love that. And it's so, so tangible, this notion of a three story limit. And I think it's a great question for all of us to ask me, me included, and you and, and anyone listening, you know, what's our three story limit? What is that limiting belief that may be getting in the way of us? I mean, it couldn't be a better metaphor of rising higher, you know, getting, getting to another level. And, um, it's not, not, not to beat ourselves up or, or feel ashamed of that, but it's to identify what's that three story limit and, and confront it and, and, and kind of reprogram it, reset those, uh, assumptions and, and, and think about a new pattern or a new new framework that will allow us to rise physically and literally to, to the next level. So thank you for sharing that. That's a, that's a, uh, it's a beautiful story as, as you're, um, out there talking to other speakers. Are there any common three story limits that you think speakers have? I mean, sometimes I know that price is an issue. Like, oh, you know, it's a lot of money for someone to pay me. And so they're, they're hesitant to ask for, uh, the fee. Sometimes people say, well, I could never do that many keynotes in a year. You know, maybe that's a limiting belief. But what are some of the other three story limits that you've seen from your speaker colleagues?
Carla Johnson:
I think, um, I think that one about price is a common one. And I, I read some, uh, something in a personal development book that I found pretty powerful. When we aren't willing to invest in ourselves, how can we believe that others would be willing to invest in us? So I've always thought about, you know, if if we aren't willing to invest five or $10,000 in our own growth or our own profession or our own skills, why would somebody else be willing to invest in, you know, that much money in us as speakers? So I think when we go through the professional growth process, it can help us understand the value that we bring, which, you know, value equates to, to fee. But I think some of the other three story limits that people have are what size of audience can I speak to? You know, am I, am I comfortable just in conference rooms? What would happen if you got a call and said, we have an audience of a thousand or or 10,000 people. There's a lot of speakers who I know would say, oh, no, no, I, I can't, I can't do that. Or My, my message isn't the right message or my speech isn't good enough. And I think those are all opportunities whenever we catch ourself in a three story limit, that that's the place that we can look at for where growth can happen.
Josh Linkner:
Hmm. Beautifully said. Love that. So you've written I think 10 books, am I right that
Carla Johnson:
That's right. 10 books.
Josh Linkner:
I've got four books and four kids. I can't imagine
Carla Johnson:
You know, I, I really see it diving deep into research around curiosity and how it impacts business performance. So when we look at, um, what, what fuels innovation and what fuels creativity, I always wanna go back to, okay, if, if this is what's helpful, then what causes that? Like what fuels that? What fuels that? And I really look at, at curiosity as being almost like ground zero for how we fuel creative thinking and, and innovative thinking. And, and some of these things that I think are so important during a time of AI and people assuming that technology is going to provide all of our answers, how can we really blend that opportunity between curiosity and creative thinking and all of the work of, um, all of the changes that are coming along with, with tech and, and ai. Like how do you balance, you know, the robots and then the humans and what we can really deliver as our true full human potential. And I think it's not just business performance, which of course is always, always really important, but how do we tap into these things that are innate human behavior so we can bring more joy and more happiness and, and really truly more of our true selves into work when it feels like technology rules the day.
Josh Linkner:
One observation that I just wanna celebrate in what you said is that I feel like many thought leaders or speakers, they wanna get to the next level or expand or whatever, and they, they go wider. So it's like, oh, I speak on customer service, so now I'm also gonna speak on leadership and I'm also gonna speak on fill in the blank. You're not going wide. Are you going deeper? So you're saying I'm an expert in innovation, and if you double click on that, you know, curiosity is a, is a building block a core foundational building block, I'm gonna focus on that. And so you're actually going deeper and narrower, not wider and broader, and I actually think that's the right strategy for you and others like that. That's what people crave is depth and substantive, you know, like really under unpacking a core issue rather than, than being like the, the Costco sampler sides and you're getting a little tastes of everything, but not, not in enough depth in the satisfying way.
So I really celebrate that and I think it's an instructive lesson for us all. Um, one other question I wanna ask you, I dunno if it's more tactical or not, but, um, I noticed on your site that you have this assessment, which is really why I'm gonna take it. I haven't taken it. What type of innovator are you? Can you tell us what that assessment is, but also like, how is that, is that, is that a lead gen source for you? Do you capture information? How do you use the assessment with, with, with prospects and clients? Because I think an assessment is a, is a, an underused tool that that other thought leaders can embrace.
Carla Johnson:
So when I was doing research for my last book, which is called Rethink Innovation, about how do people become prolific innovators and come up with ideas that consistently have an impact, bottom line impact, one of the things that I came across is, is that we kind of have this stereotype of what does an innovator look like? And oftentimes it's, it's two ends of the spectrum. It's either that really, um, left strategic thinker, you know, like maybe at McKenzie you're an Accenture kind of person if you think about it, you know, lots of flow charts, lots of structure. And then on the other side is they're really crazy wacky, you know, any, anything is possible and, and make some people kind of nervous about, I have no idea where this is going and is it really an idea that's executable kind of thing. But as I looked at that and I looked at the people who I'd met, the people I'd worked with through my consulting over the years, I saw that there were more than just those two types of people involved in, in contributing and making innovation successful.
So through research and um, through my own experience, I developed this assessment to help people understand what kind of an innovative thinker are they? And there's six different archetypes, and what we find is the most successful innovation teams who innovate, it doesn't necessarily have to be as, uh, traditional innovation teams. They're a combination of different types of thinkers. So yes, we have the strategist, yes, we have that provocative thinker like the, you know, the, the p the person who's always pushing the status quo, but we also have to have people who are collaborators and who work can work across companies and departments and to make sure that the idea can move forward. We have the psychologist who understand, you know, and have empathy for what's the impact of the ideas that we have. You know, who are some of the, um, the leaders, the orchestrators who really look at how do we remove roadblocks before it happens.
And so it was something that I created to include in my book and then got the idea to, to make the assessment. And, and it's really been surprising, Josh, I've had thousands and thousands of people take this assessment over the last five years, actually released it five years ago this month in August. And the response has just been incredible. And what I find is that when teams start to understand how each archetype thinks differently, it helps pull the curtain back about how do I share my idea in a way that makes sense to them so that they can also help contribute and make the idea stronger instead of just saying, this is what I need as a strategist, or we're not pushing the status quo enough as a provocateur of those two traditional ways and really embrace what everybody brings to the table and how it shows up.
So it has been a lead gen opportunity that I didn't actually expect. And one of the things that I find is that when I do a keynote and there's something that I can share afterwards, that's a value, I have people share that link because people find it absolutely fascinating. And then through that email funnel that goes along with that, oftentimes I'll get leads for additional speaking opportunities. And I have worksheets that I share with teams who want to take their assessment and use it with their team and, and work, you know, work beyond that. I tend to do more workshops on the innovation archetypes. I call it the six Faces of innovation, then I do keynotes, but I do definitely have requests for that as a keynote. So it's been a wonderful opportunity to bring people into my community of, of thinking. And then it's also a part of my email newsletter that I send out every other week. And so it's a, it's a way to bring them in if they haven't seen me speak or heard me on a podcast or something like that.
Josh Linkner:
Well, as we, as we wrap our conversation today, and I, I wish we had more time, but it's been been fascinating. I'd love to just, you know, you, you've, you've had such great success in, in, in, in all facets of, of the practice in life and you continue to thrive. What is maybe just one or two pieces of advice that you would give to, to someone who's a little bit earlier in their speaking career, um, maybe a lesson that you've learned or a piece of advice that you'd have for, for someone who's, you know, their heart's in the right place, they're doing the work and, and they they wanna be the next Carlo Johnson. What, what advice might you give
Carla Johnson:
I think the first piece of advice that really made a huge difference on my speaking career, Josh, was to look at how many referrals are you getting from your speech? And it, you know, it could be a main stage, it could be a breakout speech. It doesn't matter what the environment is, but unless people are coming up to you afterwards and saying, this was amazing, this made an impact, can you come and talk to my team or my organization about it? Then there's something about your message that isn't quite hitting the pain point of what, uh, of the pain of what your audience is feeling. And I think un until we're able to truly hit that pain point and show people that you need to make a change back to that provocative thinking, and you start to get those referrals, then the main thing that you need to work on is the content of your speech to start with.
I mean, that's, that's your core product is, is your message in your speech. So I think that's, that's the main one. I think the, the second one that I really learned and, and I practiced it a lot when I focused purely on marketing consulting, and I do it a lot now as speakers is, is circle back after an event and ask somebody, you know, how did it go? Could I get a testimonial if you were really happy with the experience that your audience have? And then also that next question is, do you have a speaker for next year's event? It's not unusual for an event planner to bring a speaker back again the, the next year if they were really happy with them. And sometimes the answer is no, we, we don't repeat speakers. So a next offer is, how can I help you? Are there speakers I can, I can introduce you to? So that opportunity to always be helpful, whether that means you getting the next speaking gig or you just being a helpful resource to people, I think is an amazing way to start out to build your speaking career.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, that's awesome. And just one clarifying thing, you know, like, uh, you know, I've done a lot of keynotes as of you, you know, 1300 and something now, and, and not like every single time there's a line of people saying, will you please come back to my organization? So if you're not getting that, it's not a bad sign, but Carlos's point is exactly right, that if you're, if you're not getting, you know, somewhat consistent basis that that's awesome, we need to bring you back. I need to tell a friend, you know, because because we're in a business where as we're delivering our, our services, it should, it's also a marketing opportunity. It should be self-replicating. And if you're not seeing at least a little bit of that, you're right that there's some, there's some tweaking needed. Um, and I just love, you know, this is such a perfect example of, of a three story limit where, um, oh, well I spoke at their event this year, they're not gonna have me next year. Why not? What a great thing to suggest, Hey, what if we built on this year's content, carried it forward, continued the conversation. Yeah. Are you gonna get a hundred percent of those? No. Are you gonna get 0%? For sure not, you're gonna get more outta it. So I love the way your mind works. It's so smart, and I really appreciate your time with us today. So Carla, I wish you continued success, continued curiosity as you continue to pave the way for so many, uh, and driving deep creativity and innovation across the world. Thank you.
Carla Johnson:
Oh, thank you my friend. It's a pleasure to be here. Always great to see you.
Josh Linkner:
What a powerful conversation with Carla from architecture to innovation and everything in between. Carla is a true example of how blending disciplines can lead to breakthrough thinking. One of my favorite takeaways from today's conversation was our emphasis on identifying the three story limits that might be holding us back. Whether it's setting boundaries on our speaking fees, limiting our perception of audience sizes, we can address or believing that our keynote topics are set in stone. These self-imposed restrictions can keep us from reaching new heights, and it's our duty, it's our responsibility to challenge them. For those who are thinking about how to stay ahead of the curve, let's take Carla's advice. Don't just follow the trends, set expiration dates on your own work, review your reels, your content, even the structure of your keynotes regularly to see where you can push the boundaries. Thanks again, Carla, for your insights and for showing us that it's possible to blend the rigor of architecture with the flare of Lady Gaga to make a lasting impact. Until next time, here's to your next mic drop moment. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit mic drop podcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening. And here's to your next mic drop moment.