Mic Drop

Comfortably Uncomfortable (ft. Sterling Hawkins)

Episode Summary

This week’s episode of Mic Drop features a unique format and a can’t-miss guest. We welcome star speaker Sterling Hawkins as he delivers the entire opening of his current keynote, word-for-word, then discusses how he crafted it and much more in this special Mic Drop.

Episode Notes

Comfortably Uncomfortable (ft. Sterling Hawkins)

From rock bottom to top of his game, discover Sterling Hawkins’ keys to ultimately excelling as a speaker and expert— including a sneak peek at his keynote

OPENING QUOTE:

“When the company crashed, so did I. No job, ran out of cash. I go from this gorgeous, big, beautiful penthouse in downtown San Francisco to my parents' house. And just to make sure I was firmly grounded in rock bottom, my girlfriend broke up with me. True story. It's like a depressing country song. I hit every single beat.”

-Sterling Hawkins

GUEST BIO:

Sterling Hawkins is the founder of the No Matter What Movement, a powerhouse speaker, and an all-around terrific human being who performs over 50 keynotes a year on some of the world’s biggest stages . From running a $500 million venture-backed startup in Silicon Valley to mastering the world of professional speaking, Sterling is absolutely overflowing with insights into everything from crafting a message to leading an organization.

Links

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[3:23] - Sterling’s Keynote Opening: Part 1

From top of the world to rock bottom

Sterling opens his keynote with his story, told with flair but also a frankness that’s captivating. He had it all. He lost it all. Here he’s both establishing an emotional thread to which we can all relate— success and failure— and establishing the setup to the key insight that will define his keynote. But that won’t come yet. First, he has to hit rock bottom, and he takes us right along with him for the ride.

[5:17] - Sterling’s Keynote Opening: Part 2

From despair to determination

This is the turning point. We join Sterling in his parents’ house, alone, his career gone, over a hundred thousand dollars in debt. He lets us sit in the darkness with him for a bit, and then comes the turn. He shares the declaration to himself that changed everything: No Matter What. Now we’re beginning to accelerate toward the inspiration and insight that will guide us forward in Sterling’s message.

[8:12] - Sterling’s Keynote Opening: Part 3

From big picture to five simple things

At this point in Sterling’s opening, notice how he moves from the big picture— the world’s greatest innovators, the world’s biggest challenges— to the close-up and concrete. Like pouring all of the big ideas he’s mentioned into a funnel, he focuses our attention on where we’re headed next: Five things that will lead you to breakthroughs No Matter What.

[16:12] - When All Else Fails: Community

The people around you are your lifeline

When you face something unprecedented to you, you have to rely on a network of people who have been there— or at least somewhere similar. Sterling speaks of how vital his network of relationships— including with Josh— helped him navigate the uncharted waters of the last two years. Never neglect your network. It’s more than a professional launchpad, it’s your community when everything else fades away.

[23:12] - Turning Cons Into Pros

The power of embracing discomfort

When COVID hit and all in-person keynotes were canceled, Sterling found himself in a familiar place. He may not have been in his parents basement, but he could have easily let himself slip into “basement thinking.” Instead, he embraced the advantages of virtual speaking— like the fact that you can deliver multiple virtual keynotes per day. What negatives could be hiding positives within them in your career?

[29:52] - Run Away or Push Through

Universal advice for emerging speakers

Sterling’s parting advice for rising speakers trying to reach the next level? No surprises here— embrace discomfort. See it as an obstacle to blast through rather than a monster to run from. This will open all kinds of possibilities, like when Sterling pushed past his discomfort and asked to speak at a conference with no experience after receiving a simple automated invitation to attend as a guest.

RESOURCES:

[1:04] 3 Ring Circus
[3:01] Hunting Discomfort (Pre-Order)

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Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by 3 Ring Circus.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

ABOUT eSPEAKERS:

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eSpeakers is where the speaking industry does business on the web. Speakers, speaker managers, associations, and bureaus use our tools to organize, promote and grow successful businesses. Event organizers think of eSpeakers first when they want to hire speakers for their meetings or events.

The eSpeakers Marketplace technology lets us and our partner directories help meeting professionals all over the world connect directly with speakers for great engagements.

Thousands of successful speakers, trainers, and coaches use eSpeakers to build their businesses and manage their calendars. Thousands of event organizers use our directories every day to find and hire speakers. Our tools are built for speakers, by speakers, to do things that only purpose-built systems can.

Learn more at: eSpeakers.com

Episode Transcription

Sterling Hawkins:

When the company crashed, so did I? No job, ran out of cash. I go from this gorgeous, big, beautiful penthouse in downtown San Francisco to my parents' house. And just to make sure I was firmly ground in rock bottom, my girlfriend broke up with me. True story. It's like a depressing country song. I hit every single beat.

Josh Linker:

Welcome to Mic Drop, podcast for professional speakers. We cover the ins and outs of the business. Helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages at higher fees. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by eSpeakers. I'm your host, Josh Linker. Get ready for some inspiring mic drop moments together.

Josh Linker:

Today's show is sponsored by Three-Ring Circus, the industry's top training and development program for professional speakers. They've helped hundreds of speakers launch or scale their speaking business, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals and rising to top of the field. If you are looking to take your speaking business to the next level, they'll simply help you get there faster. To learn more and schedule a free 30 minute consultation, visit threeringcircus.com/micdrop. That's three, the number three, ringcircus.com/micdrop. Mic drop is produced, and presented by eSpeakers. If you want more audiences and organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use eSpeakers to manage and grow their business. When you use eSpeakers, you'll feel confident about your business. Package yourself up for success and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30 day trial visit eSpeakers.com/micdrop, that's eSpeakers.com/micdrop.

Josh Linker:

On today's show, we have a real treat. Sterling Hawkins, the founder of the NoMatterWhat Movement, a powerhouse speaker and terrific human being, performs the opening of his keynote. After his breathtaking performance, we cover a range of inspiring topics that will help you launch or scale your speaking business no matter what. In our conversation today, Sterling and I discuss how he went from rock bottom to delivering 50 keynotes a year on some of the world's biggest stages. How the best leaders and speakers live in a world of no matter what, a place where conviction and grit meet purpose and impact. How Sterling uses discomfort to propel himself and others forward. And the differences between running a $500 million venture back startup in San Francisco and the world of professional speaking. So let's drop in on tech entrepreneur, badass speaker, and the NoMatterWhat visionary, Sterling Hawkins, as he begins his keynote.

Sterling Hawkins:

I sold my first company to a group in Silicon Valley that was the Apple Pay before Apple Pay. We raised $550 million and I just knew it was only a matter of time until we go public. I had a lot of proof points beyond the cash, 700 employees locations all over the old, models in the office, parties at the Four Seasons, more first class tickets that I can count. It was like a scene for the Wolf of Wall Street. It was a blast, but we grew too quickly. In retrospect, we raised too much money too fast. And when the housing market collapsed, our investment dried up. When that company went bankrupt, half a billion dollars was gone, half a billion. And just when I think I know everything about what successful business looks like, I realized, hey, maybe I don't. When the company crashed. So did I?

Sterling Hawkins:

No job, ran out of cash. I go from this gorgeous, big, beautiful penthouse in downtown San Francisco to my parents' house. And just to make sure I was firmly ground in rock bottom, my girlfriend broke up with me. True story. It's like a depressing country song. I hit every single beat. And that first night I'll never forget. I'm laying in bed, staring at the ceiling in over a hundred thousand dollars in debt. It was too much to bear. I didn't know if I wanted, or even if I could go on. You ever been to a dark place like that? All that uncertainty, all that discomfort. It's not a very good place to be. Well, sometimes, sometimes that uncertainty, that not can be the greatest superpower of them all. Not knowing can free you from being shackled to what you already know from the past that it can push you to realize your true potential. And that is where we're going today.

Sterling Hawkins:

Back at my parents' house, at the lowest point in my career, frankly, my life, I make this declaration to myself. I say my life will mean something. I will make a difference with three words you can probably guess, no matter what. It was a very personal mantra. It was just to get myself out of bed in the morning. I didn't share it. I didn't talk about it. I just wanted to dig myself out of this whole, but it was that dark moment that started to quest. If it sounds epic it's because it was, it was survival in the early days, a 10 year quest to discover how leaders make a difference in some of the hardest times. And I asked really big questions like how come Martin Luther King's dream mattered so much? Most of us have dreams, don't we? Or how come Elon Musk vision transformed industries? The world isn't short on visions. And why does Mother Theresa's compassion, why did that make a difference the world over? Compassion's a human emotion and we all have it.

Sterling Hawkins:

These people, they're leading these huge positive shifts in the massive headwinds of uncertainty, huge failures, like my own and unimaginable discomfort. And after years of research and many more struggles than we have time for, I land on something that's incredibly powerful. You see, 99% of people wake up in the familiar world of, I want, a world of I wish, a world of I hope, could, try, might or even I simply can't. I want more money. I wish I would start that company. I'll try to be a keynote speaker. Now I get it. There's nothing wrong with any of that. But the people that make a difference, they live in another world, a world that everybody knows, but only 1% of people step into. And don't worry, it's got nothing to do with what you've accomplished so far, how long you've been in the industry, whether you're a founder, a manager, an aspiring keynote speaker or anything else, those that make the biggest difference are brave, brave enough to gaze into the unknown of tomorrow. They're courageous enough to stare into the uncertainty of next week.

Sterling Hawkins:

And heroic, and I really mean heroic enough to confront the uncharted waters of next month or next year, and utter this incredibly simple, but profound phrase, I will. These leaders, they live in a world of no matter what. They take the chaos of potentially unknown, and they will it into breakthrough results. They commit not to circumstances, but to the creativity, the ingenuity that determination within themselves, they cultivate a belief in their ability to figure it out. I just had a sense of that living in my parents' house, reflect on what I'd lost. Now, no matter what has worked for me, maybe obviously. I transformed being crushed by the discomfort of uncertainty to using that same uncertainty, to create breakthroughs for myself and with executives from some of the biggest companies in the world. And I'm going to share with you five things that'll take you from that conditional world. The world of, I want, wish, hope, could, try, might or can, to the promised land of I will, or rather a belief that you will no matter what.

Josh Linker:

So Sterling Hawkins, my friend and incredible keynote speaker, thanks for sharing that amazing content and welcome to Mic Drop.

Sterling Hawkins:

Thanks for having me. It's great to see you Josh.

Josh Linker:

So jumping right into it. Man, I was so moved by your remarks and this notion of clarifying the world of, I wants to the world of I will. How did you get to the point where you were able to share that both with confidence, but also with clarity?

Sterling Hawkins:

Well, it was an ugly journey to be honest about it. Living at my parents' house was a low point for me, in my life I can't point to a time that was darker. And it was first discovering what no matter what was for me. It was putting myself up on stages. It was putting myself into uncomfortable situations. And I had to discover some of these things on my own before I could ever share it on a stage or anywhere else.

Josh Linker:

Back to those early days when you had a desire to speak. I know you had some startup success, you had some startup struggles, and then you're starting to think about this new idea of public speaking. At first you weren't so comfortable with it. Is that right? And maybe share with how you first felt about speaking and then how you were able to overcome some of those fears.

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah. So I never set out to become a keynote speaker. That's not where it started. At that low point, I'm sitting at my parents' house one day and my mom said this thing to me when I was a kid and it came back to me at this dark point, she said, the way out is through. Maybe you've heard it, it's Robert Frost, but to me it'll always be my mom. And as I'm sitting at the computer, I'm like, you know what? If the way out is through, that means I have to go through the uncomfortable things that I don't like, that I don't want to be part of to come out the other side to transform my situation. What I'm looking for is on the other side. And at that moment, I get an email from a conference in Singapore and it wasn't inviting me to speak, it was just one of those general conference blast that says, hey, pay $50, join our conferences and attendee and save the world, or whatever it said.

Sterling Hawkins:

And I'll never forget in that moment, I hit reply and I wrote, why don't you have me speak? Best, Sterling. Now, I don't know Josh, if the stars aligned or the heavens opened up or what it was, but long story short, I end up getting on the phone with the conference director and he invites me in to be the keynote speaker. And I practiced incessantly for that thing. Hundreds, if not thousands of times, I wrote the speech, rewrote the speech. I wish I knew you then, because you would've been hugely helpful in getting this whole thing together. And when the day finally came and I deliver the speech, the conference director comes up to me right afterwards. And I'm doing one of these, I'm covering myself, because I don't know how it went. And he looks me in the eyes and he says, Sterling, that's the greatest talk I've seen in my 17 years of doing this.

Sterling Hawkins:

To this day, I'm not sure he actually saw my keynote. It's unbelievable to me. But he went on to put me in touch with all of his conference director friends. And it was almost like the world of keynote speaking opened up to me. I was like maybe the very thing that I feared most is the path of my new career. And that's how it started.

Josh Linker:

Wow. Key points. First of all, you pursued something that you were afraid of. You took a risk that seemed out of reach, you prepared. So you practiced and diligently did the work. You didn't just show up. And then you got some early wins on the board, which propelled you forward. Such a great model for anyone pursuing anything, certainly in terms of public speaking. So what year was that Sterling?

Sterling Hawkins:

That's a good question. I think that was five years ago probably.

Josh Linker:

Okay. So 2016 [crosstalk 00:12:35].

Sterling Hawkins:

Something like that.

Josh Linker:

... 2017.

Sterling Hawkins:

And it's interesting, you call out those steps because those actually became the steps of NoMatterWhat. Seek discomfort, or I say hunt discomfort, declare a big vision, or a stretch goal, something you want to see for yourself, surround yourself with a street gang, the people that can help you get there. And accept any results.

Josh Linker:

So there you go.

Sterling Hawkins:

It works.

Josh Linker:

You practice what you preach. So that was 2016, 2017, something like that. Here we are in early 2022. Tell us a little bit about your speaking business today, whatever you're comfortable sharing in terms of number of events you're expecting, or just give us a flavor of what it's like to be Sterling Hawkins keynote speaker today.

Sterling Hawkins:

So I'll speak, we're shooting for 50 times this year here in 2022, which is, it's still unbelievable to me, to look back and say, it all started in Singapore four or five years ago, something like that. And I'll speak 50 times this year to companies from all across the globe. I speak in Australia and Europe all across the US, South America, these days the international speaking is more virtual than anything else. And I don't know, it's anybody's guess in terms of virtual versus in person coming up, but my money's on 50/50, 50 will be in person, 50% will be virtual. My fees still astound me. We charge 12,500 for a virtual keynote and 22,5 for in-person. And I couldn't be more grateful for the position that we're in.

Josh Linker:

That's awesome. And by the way you are, I suppose some luck maybe played into it somewhere, but really to me knowing you, it was your hard work, your discipline, your courage, all the things that you preach, that's what manifests this beautiful career that you have. And you're just getting started, that 50 is going to be 70 and probably is going to be 90 and you're going to be speaking as much as you possibly want. So, it's so fun sitting on the sidelines, watching your magical ascent. I want to ask you though about NoMatterWhat, as you are fighting through COVID. So I remember I was in Chicago on March 10th, 2020, and I'm given a keynote and then I get after off the stage somewhere, I saw a text, some cancellation for something called COVID. I'm like, oh, come on, they're overreacting. That's a bunch of... And, of course, our world in the speaking industry, of course, the whole globe changed dramatically.

Josh Linker:

So as you were in some of the dark days that we were all in, in the speaking industry with events being canceled and revenue dropping and things that, often things we say are outside of our control aren't, this actually was. No one raised their hand and said, how about some COVID please? How did NoMatterWhat inform your behaviors navigating the difficult waters of COVID?

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah. More COVID please. That's funny. I think the actually, the last conference I spoke at in person was with you in Orlando, Florida, and I will never forget. They suggested you not shake each other's hand. And I thought it was a joke. I really, it could not compute how serious this thing was. And when I got home, I sit on my couch, catch up on emails, which is really just an excuse to look at social media. And I see that the NBA has canceled their season. And that was the moment for me, where I realized, hey, if the NBA's canceling, I don't have a hope. And sure enough, this flurry of calls came in that afternoon over the following week canceling every single thing we had on our docket for the next, I think, six or nine months. And it was devastating. I think I watched Netflix and ate so much pizza, the pizza place had to call me saying, hey, are you okay, man? You're not supposed to order three pizzas a day.

Sterling Hawkins:

But what got me through it was really the community that I had built. Our growing relationship was a huge piece of that, helping me reorient, understand what other speakers were doing, the street gang, my sister, who still does all our PR and marketing, talking with her, working it through and calling clients to say, hey, where are you at? What are you thinking about? What are you worried about? Can we move to virtual? And then, within a couple of weeks of the COVID shutdown we had at least at the beginnings of a full virtual studio in place.

Josh Linker:

So, you took your own advice. You said I'm getting through this no matter what. The best way out is through.

Sterling Hawkins:

That's right. Yeah. I thought about that, and after feeling bad for myself for a week, couple of weeks, I said, you know what? I need more discomfort. And I went on a 50 mile run. Oh, it was over the course of two days, but 50 miles. And it was enough to shake me out of that malaise I was in, that worry about myself to say, okay, what do I need to do? What do I need to change? What actions can I can take to make some difference here. After all, I do talk about NoMatterWhat.

Josh Linker:

Well, you're living it. And chasing that discomfort obviously is pushing you to become a better version of yourself. And it's something that we can all really learn from. So I had a question, shifting gears, you were an executive at a startup, it raised all kinds of capital. You mentioned in your opening remarks, you just did phenomenally well. And some of those concluded in a good way, yours did not, but you were in it, you were in the middle of that world. What are the similarities and differences of the world of venture back startups in San Francisco to the world of professional speaking?

Sterling Hawkins:

It's a good question. There's far less outside financial pressure. I tell startups all the time. If you don't have to raise money, I don't recommend it, because then you're beholden to somebody else. And especially when you're raising hundreds of millions of dollars, they've got a big piece of whatever it is you're doing. So the freedom from that, I think has been a big part of what I enjoy about keynote speaking. And don't get me wrong. There's time and a place to raise money. There's certainly a lot of companies that should do it, but not having the outside watchdogs was a transition for me. Let me think what else?

Sterling Hawkins:

The community inside professional speaking is much closer than I ever imagined. When I first started out it was just me on my own, or me with my sister supporting some of these things, compared to the venture world where there were people in and around what we were doing all the time, we had 700 employees as part of that one startup, most of the things I've done have been including lots of other people. And it wasn't until I really started meeting other speakers that I realized how close this community is and how everybody that I've met wants to help everybody else out. You might beat me out for this one, but for the next one, I'll get it. And to support each other in that, I think's been beautiful.

Josh Linker:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions in annual income while driving massive impact on audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow route with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you are serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at Three-Ring Circus, they can help, from optimizing your marketing and business efforts to crafting your ideal positioning, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills. Three-Ring Circus is the only speaker training and development program run by current high level speakers at the top of their field. That's why the major bureaus like Washington Speakers Bureau, Premiere Speakers, Speak Inc, Executive Speakers, Harry Walker Agency, Keppler, Gotham Artists, and GDA all endorse and participate in Three-Ring Circus. From interactive boot camps to one-on-one coaching, Three-Ring Circus will help you reach your full potential in the speaking biz, and they'll get there faster. For a free 30 minute consultation, visit threeringcircus.com/micdrop. That's threeringcircus.com/micdrop.

Josh Linker:

Yeah, that's awesome. And you and I share that. I was obviously a tech entrepreneur before joining the world of speaking. And I've thought about this. I'd be curious to get your thoughts. So from a business model standpoint, for those that aren't unfamiliar, at tech business, you invest a bunch of money, usually other people's money. You make no money or very little, if that, because you're not trying to optimize for profits, you're generally trying to optimize for growth. You make no money, no money, no money. And then you have some event, you sell the company, you go public and you make gobs of money. So, you have enterprise value, but very little cash flow. Speaking is exactly the opposite generally. So you make great cash flow because you have low expenses and you're closing all these gigs. And if you do 50 dates at 50 grand a year, you have a pretty nice lifestyle, but you don't happen to have a lot of enterprise value.

Josh Linker:

So, if you are the cash flow of your speaking business, and that was a software business, it'd be worth a hundred million, but in our case, our individual speaking businesses anyway, don't have enterprise value, which means that we have to optimize value in stream as opposed to waiting till the end of the rainbow. The other thing that's weird about the speaking industry to me, unlike tech, is that you're inventory constrained. So if you're writing software code and someone, you get five new users, it costs you no extra money or effort to sell to the next user. And you can have unlimited users. There's no constraint other than maybe having to buy a new server. But if you are a keynote speaker like you, that is very in demand and built this incredible following and you get 17 offers for October 3rd, ain't no way you're doing 17 offers, you have to say no. And so that's another thing that's wonky.

Josh Linker:

The other thing that's a little weird about it is that you can deliver outstanding performance in tech and your customers are really loyal. They keep coming back for more. You can deliver the best keynote to someone, a client as a keynote speaker, and they say, Sterling, that was awesome, but they're not going to hire you next year because they want variety, just like they're not going to see the same movie 80 times in a row. And so to me, those are the downsides of the business. But on the other hand, besides the great cash flow, to me, the real upsides, and that's what I really want to ask you. I look at it as the ability to impact others, the ability to learn and grow. Every time you're giving a keynote, you have to prepare for it, you're learning the inner ability to interact with amazing, interesting people and the ability to challenge yourself as an artist and a performer as a thought leader.

Josh Linker:

And so to me, those supersede all the negatives, including late night travel delays. But I'm curious for you, what do you see as the real, both business model differences, and maybe what's fueling you? Because you could go back and do another tech startup, probably make more money, but you're continuing to pursue this route.

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah. Well, one thing I'd add to what you said is the move to virtual, and I think that's something that's here to stay, although it might shrink as COVID concerns start to diminish. It's that you can do a lot of virtual keynotes on the same day. I think the most we ever had was four or five on the same day. And I've heard from others, they're doing like 10 in one day, which is mind blowing to me. But it changes the game a little bit, because there's no longer travel involved. The preparation's a little bit different, and so on. The other thing I'd say is that keynote speaking seems like a lot of money per hour and it is, but there's a lot of time and effort that goes into preparing for each one of those. So it's not just, hey, you're going to make 20 grand an hour. You're going to spend 20, 30, maybe 40 hours preparing if you're anything like me. And so it really takes some work.

Sterling Hawkins:

I think in terms of the impact that I make, that's really why I do it. I can't get over the messages from people on Instagram or through email or through my website saying what they're doing with the NoMatterWhat message. They're transforming their families, they're changing their businesses. They're starting businesses. They're raising all sorts of capital. They're starting to do simple things like meditate and they're doing incredible things like recovering from cancer. And that's a payment to me, or that's an energy exchange to me that I wouldn't give up for the world. It's my favorite thing in the world to do, to speak to people. And it becomes that much more meaningful when I get to hear what it meant to them.

Josh Linker:

So beautifully said Starling. And to me, two of the biggest misconceptions about our line of work is, number one that speaking is about you as the speaker. And as you know, more than anyone, it's not about you, it's about your audience and those that you affect. And when you get some email from someone saying, I beat cancer because I follow the NoMatterWhat principles, that's how you know you're doing it right, because it's not about look what I did. It's look what you can do. The second misconception you brought up is interesting was this notion of getting paid a lot of money per hour. And not that you aren't by the way, but it's also often misconstrued. So I've got a speech coming up next month. I'm going to Dubai to give a 15 minute speech. All in, the client is paying with travel a hundred thousand dollars.

Josh Linker:

It's a hundred thousand dollars for 15 minutes someone will say, well, yeah, that's a lot of money per minute or whatever, but yes, and I'm very grateful for that just to be clear. But first of all, it's the 25 hours of travel back and forth. It's the, of course, you mentioned the hours of preparation to make every second of that 15 minutes count, but more importantly, it's the last 30 years of my body of work. And so yeah, you are compensated for things that you've done, but it's not quite the same ratio that it appears. And it's funny, there was an old story, I don't know if you've ever heard this. Picasso is sitting at a cafe and a woman walks up and is rather pushy and says, would you please sketch me a drawing? He says, no, ma'am I prefer not to. She said, no, I'll pay you whatever you think it's worth.

Josh Linker:

So he takes out his table mat and takes 10 minutes and sketches something and hands it to her and says, that will be $1 million. She said $1 million, that only took you five minutes. He said, no, ma'am, that's taken me my whole life.

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah. Yeah. There's really something to that. And that's what it takes. And once you get up to speed, I think as a keynote speaker and you discover your format and you get comfortable with it and you give tens of, if not hundreds of speeches, it does free up some time. At some point I do a little bit of investing these days, but at some point I wouldn't rule out starting another company.

Josh Linker:

And the cool thing about it is that, that might be complimentary. If you were speaking and selling life insurance on the side, there's no real synergy between those two. But if you started a company and there was some tie into your body of work or the relationship that you had in the speaking world, that actually makes a lot of sense, and I've seen some people enjoy a lot of success as a result of it, which actually is a good segue, Sterling. I was going to ask you as the, NoMatterWhat expert. I know you're always pushing yourself to new levels of growth and success and getting outside your comfort zone. What are your next NoMatterWhat objectives? What does the next three, five years look like for you, both personally and professionally?

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah. Well, professionally, what I shared earlier is our goal, our NoMatterWhat goal is 50 keynotes this year. Virtual, in-person doesn't matter, 50 is the number. I think people should have health goals as well, health NoMatterWhat. And I've got two of them. One is a fitness goal I'm working on with my trainer, a body weight composition thing. And the other, whenever this COVID stuff winds down, I've been dying to climb Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa. If you or any of our listeners want to join here, we should go.

Josh Linker:

Love that. Love that.

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah.

Josh Linker:

And so just building on it. So you mentioned that this year's speaking NoMatterWhat is 50, and I have all the reason to believe you'll nail that, I'm sure you'll pass it. What do you want to be doing five years from now? In speaking, is it 50 at higher fees? Is it 90 at higher? What does the NoMatterWhat a few years out look like for you in speaking?

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about that lately. And this year and the next couple of years, it's speaking as much as I can, impacting as many people and as places as humanly possible. So maybe that's a hundred keynotes a year at some point, but five, six, seven years out, it's less than that. I'll look at raising my fees and speaking maybe 25, 30, 40 times a year, but really picking the audiences, making sure that they're groups of people where, I've got buy-in from the conference organizers or the company directly to make sure that these principles live on beyond the keynote.

Sterling Hawkins:

I can make a pretty good impact in 45 minutes. It's entertaining, there's inspiration, there's takeaways that people can really grab onto and implement as they walk out the door. And at the same time, there are somethings we've been working on with some companies especially recently to say, hey, how can we remind your team members, your audience members of what living a NoMatterWhat life looks like for them? Is it a series of emails? Is it me coming back at some point, is it a deeper workshop? And it's those tools and the longevity of the impact that I'm looking for.

Josh Linker:

So good. So we have thousands of people listening today. Most of which really are keynote speakers at different levels. Some are newer to the opportunity and they're launching their speaking practice for the first time, others are relaunching or looking to take their game to the next level, or folks that are just students of the craft and love our business and always are trying to learn and grow. What advice do you have to your fellow speakers in our community on how they can apply NoMatterWhat to building and scaling their own speaking practice?

Sterling Hawkins:

Yeah. Well, in some of the research that I've done, I came across some work from this Chilean engineer and politician, really innovative guy, his name's Fernando Flores. And one of the things that he's discovered is that when we feel discomfort, sound familiar? When we feel discomfort it's a warning sign that our view of the future might not be a hundred percent true. And that view, true or not, becomes a declaration about what possibilities are open or closed for us in the coming days, coming months, coming years. When we confuse our view of the truth with the truth, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm a great example of going from literally rock bottom to speaking, this year 50 times a year. Any of those things, I don't want to do the cliche, anything's possible, but when you look at discomfort as not as something to run from, but to move through, it really does open up some new possibilities. And I have no doubt that you'll at least make progress towards your goal, if not, outright achieve it no matter what's standing in your way.

Josh Linker:

Oh, so good, and a perfect place to leave our conversation. So much love and respect for your work and you as a human being and a dear friend. Where can people learn more? I know you have a new book that's coming out soon and people want to learn about your speaking practice, where should they go?

Sterling Hawkins:

Sterlinghawkins.com. We've got it all there. And I'm pretty searchable on social media too, Instagram, LinkedIn, I'm on all of them. And the book will be out in June of 2022. I can't wait. It's my first book.

Josh Linker:

Well, I know it's going to be a smashing success. And I know that you're going to continue to light up the speaking world and light up the world in general, with your insights and wisdom, NoMatterWhat. Sterling Hawkins, thanks again, brother.

Sterling Hawkins:

Thank you, Josh.

Josh Linker:

After hanging out with Sterling, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that's considering a NoMatterWhat tattoo. Between his keynote opening and our conversation here are just a few key takeaways. Number one, we're all going to get smacked down at some point, adversity is just part of life. Sterling shows us how those low points can become rocket fuel for bouncing back. Number two, I just love how Sterling shares his experiences being fully open and vulnerable. This makes him real, relatable and authentic compared to many blow hard speakers that arrogantly boast from the stage. We fall in love with a speaker by learning how they overcame their struggles, not by how many trophies they've won. And finally, number three, I'm impressed how Sterling created the NoMatterWhat brand. He isn't just another generic overcoming adversity speaker, instead he built a memorable and compelling brand and a proprietary system around his body of work. And fully stepping into and owning that positioning has separated Sterling from the competitive pack and helped him soar.

Josh Linker:

Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. And a big thanks to our sponsor, Three-Ring Circus. I'm your host, Josh Linker. Thanks for listening. And here's to your mic drop moment.