Dive into a riveting episode of Mic Drop as Josh Linkner engages with the visionary John Winsor, who has significantly shaped the landscapes of advertising, innovation, and the gig economy. This episode isn't just about John's journey from being one of the early adopters of the digital nomad lifestyle to his influential role in redefining creative industries; it's a treasure trove of actionable insights for speakers, leaders, and anyone eager to make an impact in their field. Discover how John's philosophy of "exploring something new" can invigorate your own strategies, enhance your leadership style, and broaden your professional horizons. By blending tales of personal adventures with professional breakthroughs, John offers a masterclass on thriving amidst change and seizing opportunities in the flux of the modern workforce.
John Winsor is a highly regarded entrepreneur, author, and speaker with a deep focus on innovation and the future of work. His extensive career includes founding Radar Communications, which was sold to CP+B in 2007, where he embraced co-creation and strategy to enhance market intelligence. Winsor's early entrepreneurial ventures also involved building a magazine publishing company that centered on sports like mountain biking and extreme skiing. This venture was notably successful, leading to the turnaround of Women's Sports & Fitness and the launch of The Gravity Games, later sold to Condé Nast.
Winsor is not only recognized for his thought leadership in advertising and business strategy but also as a significant voice in discussions about talent management and the changing workforce landscape. His insights have been published in prestigious outlets like The Harvard Business Review and The Guardian. At the heart of his professional journey is a profound commitment to exploring and leveraging the potential of crowdsourcing and open talent, themes that are prevalent in his talks and writings, including his book co-authored with Jin H. Paik on open talent solutions.
Early Digital Nomad Experience: Winsor discusses his early adoption of the digital nomad lifestyle, setting up a satellite connection in a remote Mexican village, which allowed him the flexibility to balance life and work remotely long before it became mainstream.
Cultural Impact on Business Philosophy: Reflecting on his experiences abroad, particularly in Mexico and Paris, Winsor explains how exposure to different cultures has deepened his approach to business and innovation, advocating for a slower, more observant engagement with new environments.
Open Talent and Innovation: John dives into the concept of 'open talent,' contrasting it with traditional employment and explaining how this model has influenced industries by decentralizing how work is performed and emphasizing the importance of aligning tasks with outcomes.
Revolutionizing Industries through Crowdsourcing: Winsor shares a compelling story about how his company, Victors and Spoils, leveraged crowdsourcing to win a major contract with Harley-Davidson, showcasing the potential of open innovation to disrupt established market norms and propel businesses forward.
Learn more about John Winsor:
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Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.
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While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world’s foremost experts on innovation. Josh
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John Winsor:
It really sent shivers down the whole spine of the advertising industry. Here's this 20 person startup in Boulder that wins Harley-Davidson globally. And, uh, it, it radically shifted things.
Josh Linkner:
Hey friends, Josh Linkner here. Delighted to bring you season three of Mic Drop, the number one podcast for professional speakers and thought leaders on the show. We connect with experts at the top of the field unpacking their success to help each of us grow and thrive from elevating your artistry to booking more gigs. Mic Drop is designed to give you the tools and insights you need to reach the next level. Together we'll accelerate the path to growth, success, and most importantly, impact
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Josh Linkner:
In today's episode of Mic Drop, we sit down with Renaissance man, John Windsor, a pioneering force in the realms of advertising, digital nomadism and open talent. John shares insights from his vast career, ranging from founding victors and spoils, and then ultimately selling it to Havas to his impactful work at Harvard Business School's Laboratory for Innovation Science. As we explored John's journey from an early digital nomad to a thought leader in open talent and innovation, he sheds light on how embracing new cultures, ideas, and models of work can lead to unprecedented success. John's philosophy of seeking deeper experiences both in life and work offer a unique perspective on achieving fulfillment and impact. This is one cool dude, and you're gonna enjoy my conversation today. John WinDor, welcome to Mic Drop.
John Winsor:
Thanks, Josh. Great to be here.
Josh Linkner:
So, so many topics to cover with you today. Uh, I not only have admired you and your as, as a human being and, and your career, but you've had such an incredible impact in so many different realms. I wanna start out with this notion, uh, you were one of the first early digital nomads, so as I understand, 20 years ago, you found a satellite dish, mounted it on your house in a village in Mexico, and connected illegally to a network in Canada to communicate with the world. My question to you, and now other people have become digital nomads and such, how did being a digital nomad shape your work, your business philosophy, and, and also you as a person?
John Winsor:
Wow, that's a great, that's a great, uh, way to start. Thanks, Josh. Yeah, I think, you know, I, I've always had this, I think for a lot of us, right? We've always wanted to do, wanted to live a life first and then have our work fit into life. And I think it's really hard, right? With a lot of place-based organizations and having to be, you know, or get moved around, especially if you've, if you've really got ambition in your own career, like how do you do that? And, you know, it meant for me that I just needed to strike out on my own and be an entrepreneur. But again, that's even more place-based as, you know, better than anybody, right? Like
And so our teams can do the great work that they do. Um, but, you know, along the way, I, I tried to figure out how to balance all that stuff and, and ended up in Mexico buying a house after I sold my first company. And it was a really great exploration. I I was really intrigued by the idea, could this work? And, you know, it was, back then it was way before, you know, quick broadband internet and very slow. Uh, but it worked. And it was great to be able to do kind of what a lot of people are doing now. It was, I wasn't completely a digital nomad. I would it very much of a hybrid worker. I would kind of do my deep thinking, 'cause I was writing a couple books at the time and then come back to work. And, and I had a really good team that that worked here in, in town.
But I, I feel like there's so many lessons that, you know, we're learning out of the pandemic. One is that that work's not a thing for most people that defines them anymore. And it's not a thing that, uh, is a place to go. It's, it's a, something to do, but it's in the context of a greater life, right? Like, I, I have much more energy for my kids now. I'm at home a lot more. You know, I, I, I see my friends a lot, and it, before I was just always on the road a hundred percent of the time. It was really, really difficult to do. So I think this new digital connectivity really helps people live a more fulfilled life, albeit, it's really challenging too, right? There's a lot of loneliness. We're sitting on computers on Zoom calls a lot. And so that you've really gotta make an effort to be more social. It just 'cause of was a foregone conclusion being in an office that you get some socialization too. So we're, I think we're in the middle of a big transition.
Josh Linkner:
Couldn't agree more. And just building on that, you know, you obviously spend time in Mexico and, and other places around the world. What did, um, being immersed in and learning from other cultures do to your perspective, and how did that actually ultimately impact your work as a thought leader?
John Winsor:
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think, you know what, I think the bigger Mexico's been great, but, but it's always been my kind of safe zone and a place I could go and really get deeply into the work. It was. It's a place that I can go really, really deep, whether it's in my own work or in my, in the work that I do professionally. But I think the other, the other experience is probably when I took the job as Chief Innovation officer at Havas and had an office in Paris. You know, you walk into those situations and you're tasked with a really big role, and you're really excited and you get so focused on what you do, and, and you're so nervous about providing value to the organization that just hired you, that you get so focused on what can I do?
And it, I think the mistakes I've made, and the thing that I've learned is I need to slow way down and be much more of an observer and a listener in those cultures. And, and, and when I've done that, there's so many doors that open up. I didn't really realize that there's so much anxiety, you know, especially with Americans walking into a, you know, at a sea level, walking to another culture thinking that we're gonna, you know, throw bombs and change things around and kind of do very American things of, you know, really focus on outcomes and, you know, on, on shareholder value, where a lot of other cultures take a, take the world at a little bit different pace. And, and I think we've gotta, at least that was a big learning for me, is how do I slow down? How do I, how do I really get into the culture and how do I build relationships?
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, it's spot on. And by the way, what I've learned too, about slowing down is that when you slow down as a person who's a creative person, like you and I, as someone who's an artist and a and a and a thought leader, you actually do better work. So it's slowing down in inherently, you think that, oh, I'm gonna be lazy, I'm taking my foot off the gas, all that. You actually back to outcomes tend to drive better outcomes. So it's a sort of a counter counterintuitive approach. Excuse me. Um, my next question for you was, you said, uh, 20 years ago, most people saw me as a disruptor. Now I consider myself an ambassador for opportunity and success in the open talent era. Can you unpack that for us?
John Winsor:
Oh, man, there's so much to, to unpack. You know, I, I, I came to, so when we talk about open talent, we're talking about really the, the advent of freelance, right? And freelance has been around forever and kind of, you know, we've used the term at Harvard Open talent versus the gig economy because I think gig work there, it's a lot of baggage around that terminology, right? And so, you know, you've been there, Josh, when you start your businesses, when you start something nascent and you're new to the market and you're one of the first movers, you almost have to throw Molotov cocktails at the current way of doing business, right? You've gotta say, oh, that old ways is not, it doesn't work. You know, we gotta do it in a new way. And I think, you know, innovators and startups have such an advantage because it's an economic imperative.
Either you change the business model or you're not in business, right? Every day, right? You've gotta like do something new. And so for me, it all started back when I bought women's sports and fitness out of bankruptcy. You know, sports Illustrator or Time Inc. The parent company had 40 editors and writers. And the paradigm that they had was that they had these editors and they would send it out, you know, send somebody out to an athlete like a Lynn Hill who's a climber in Boulder, you know, and the editor or the writer would do a pretty good job, but she's not a climber. She doesn't really understand the nuances. And I couldn't afford, when I bought the magazine, I couldn't afford to have 40 people a big office in New York. So I kind of reversed the script. I, I decided, well, let's let these really talented people that are, are subscribers that are living their lives.
Let's let them tell their stories. But let's have a couple editors that are really good at editing. But, so the authenticity came from the lived experience of the person who is our subscriber and who is a female athlete. And then the, you know, the technical parts of being a good writer could be added on in the past. And, and that paradigm really flipped for me. So when I started Victors and Spoils, I was very much, I think, considered the advertising business kind of a, a radical that I was trying to blow up the whole business by changing the business model of having place-based employees and, and selling creativity, you know, this expertise. But one of the things that happened along the way is, you know, I had the good fortune of connecting with a guy by the name of Alex Bogusky early on. And, and he and I were trying to solve for the problem.
When we joined companies, there were about 55 of us. Two years later, there were 1200 of us. We had grown that much because we, we became creative agency of the decade globally won 13 pitches, about $3 billion of the business. We didn't have the talent in house to continue to grow so quickly. And so we had this crazy idea of, well, let's go just crowdsource some content. What happened? Lo and behold, it's because we were a creative agency of the decade. Everybody in the world who wanted a job with, with us interviewed through providing us with their creative work to try to win this contest. And it, it really changed my mind. It was like, wow, in this new age of digital connectivity, it, it changes what work is like. And I, I see this today. I had a long conversation with a, a large, um, outsourcing company today.
And we were talking about the, the reality of today is work is really being decoupled from jobs like their jobs and people have jobs, but the work, even if you, if you work in a, in a, in internally, a lot of times you're tasked with things that aren't really part of your job. And, and so I I, I think we're seeing a world where jobs are being disconnected to work and work's becoming more aligned to the outcomes that need to be accomplished. Like, how can we really get aligned with that? Like, what, what needs to happen? What are the tasks that need to be done to get to the outcomes? And that I've been on this long 25 year journey to figure that out, right? Whether it was in publishing or in advertising, or now at Harvard, like how do we get the work that people do more aligned with the outcomes we need and take friction out from that.
Josh Linkner:
I love the fact that you take this radical, you know, sort of counterintuitive approach. You've done done that with, you know, sourcing talent. You're talking about decoupling work and job. I totally agree. Back to this, you know, back Victor and Spoils company you founded in 2009. Um, you told me once about the story where you won this massive account because you took a really radically different approach. Would you mind kinda walking us through that? 'cause it, it really struck me that you did something that others couldn't do with 10 times the resources that you had, mainly because you did it in a radically different way. Could you, could you walk us through that?
John Winsor:
Yeah, I love that. Thanks a lot. I mean, I, that's one of my favorite stories. You know, as a, as an entrepreneur, you have these moments in your life, you're like, wow, I didn't, like, it was just such a flyer and it worked, right? It is like, oh my god, I can't believe it. Well, so we had a company called Victors and Spoils and, and it was an ad agency based on crowdsourcing principles, born out of Crisp and Porter Bogusky. Um, and we had, you know, aggregated a bunch of talent, 10,000 people around the world. Um, there were two really insightful or inciting incidents for that company that really, you know, changed my thinking. First of all, the New York Times, Stuart Elliot suggested that, you know, if we held off starting the company, that he would write an article about us. And so we could, you know, like, let's do the article.
And then that day start the company, and there were three of us in my garage, you know, running Outta Money, freaked out, Stewart said, oh, it's gonna be great. This article, four, three quarter page article's gonna be awesome. Article hits in the morning. Three of us nervously sit in the garage wondering what's gonna happen. That night, 3000 people joined the community and Dish Network gave us their $110 million TV advertising campaign. Wow. So, yeah, so 12 hours, you know, about we, that was about $12 million of the creative. So zero to 12 million in, in eight hours or 12 hours, which was amazing, right? Amazing. So that was a really great start. But the more interesting story to me, and the one that I was so proud of, because it, it really, you know, talks to the power of the community and the power of digital connectivity was that, you know, Evan Fry, my creative director and I were noticed ad age in the morning, and it just, it, they just, uh, announced that Harley Davidson had just dropped their, uh, relationship with Carmichael Lynch of 32 years, their agency ad agency.
And, you know, Evan and I went, wow, who, who doesn't wanna work with Harley Davidson, right? Like, everybody wants to do it. We went to get coffee, and Evan and I were just lamenting the fact like, man, we're this little startup. We have 10,000 people in our crowd, but there are 20 of us in Boulder. And, you know, big ad you, you've been in the ad business, big agency pitches are hundreds of thousands of dollars that include, you know, dinners and golf games and, you know, all this amazing magical stuff that, that happens. And so, you know, I, I really wanted to ask permission to get in that. But, you know, Evan looked at me and kind of with a glint in his eyes, said, well, instead of asking for permission, let's ask for, let's ask for forgiveness. And so we ran back to the office, I threw $10,000 of my own money to the crowd.
We, we recorded a video in 20 minutes and we said, you know, hey, we're working on Harley Davidson. Give us your best work. It's really exciting. And then I wrote a blog post that just said, mark Hans Ricker was the CMOs name that said, mark, have a really great time in the agency pitch process. Super fun. I've been in 'em, lots of great dinners, lots of great golf games, you'll have a blast. Lots of good creativity. But as you're doing that, I got 10,000 people around the world that are doing work for Harley Davidson. And I put my own $10,000 up to see what happens. That blog post hit Twitter, and it was first year of Twitter, so I had as many followers as Harley Davidson did. And it just so happened that Mark Khans Ricker was the early adopter of Twitter. 20 minutes after I put the tweet up, mark Hans responded to me saying, love to see some new work, tired of old agencies coming, come to Milwaukee in two weeks. And, uh, we flew to Milwaukee and they won to, you know, they, they awarded us the global, you know, Harley Davidson account. It really sent shivers down the whole spine of the advertising industry. Here's this 20 person startup in Boulder that wins Harley-Davidson globally. And, uh, it, it radically shifted things. It certainly led to conversations that led to the, you know, me selling VNS to Havas.
Josh Linkner:
Unbelievable. Um, and so, again, kinda building on this theme of you being a, you know, someone who's willing to take these radical shifts, you know, alternative approaches that rather than traditional ones
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Josh Linkner:
Shifting to, to the, the world of professional speaking, a world that both you and I are, are engaged in and, and care deeply about, what, what, how do you think that that philosophy can apply to those of us who wanna make an impact? Who, who are thought leaders? How can we, instead of following the more traditional models, do you see any openings for us or even even things that we could perhaps consider confronting about traditions and apply that same, you know, sort of radical innovation approach to become more effective and more successful thought leaders?
John Winsor:
Yeah, there's a couple things that I've been really thinking about lately. Um, you know, 'cause I, man, first of all, so grateful for Impact 11 and your work. I mean, it just, it just blew my mind in the last couple years being involved with you guys and really upping my game and, and helping me understand how the business side works. And not just that, but just how to be a professional speaker. It's definitely a craft and it's something that, you know, you've gotta work hard at, and I really appreciate it. There are two things that I've been thinking a lot about. One is, how do I get aligned with organizations that are trying to do things? I mean, my, my space, I just wrote this book called Open Talent and MySpace is, you know, in, in this, really looking at all this, um, these new worlds of work at Harvard.
So two things I've been doing. One is trying to do longer term relationships that have several speaking opportunities with clients. So these could be, usually it's a combination of some advisory, some monthly advisory, you know, being able to lean in and, and offer some, you know, some insights coaching for people. The second is certainly keynotes is the second part of that. The third is lunch and learns, right? Can I go and help them build momentum for their clients and help them innovate? And then the third are just online, you know, webinars. So trying to create an a, a year long package with clients, and that seems to be pretty successful, some momentum around there. So I learned a lot about that. The second thing I would say is I, I've had some opportunities, and maybe it's just unique to me in, in the work that I'm doing, but there's, there's been a couple of opportunities where I've gone to trade shows and they're smaller trade shows, but instead of taking a, a keynote speaker, uh, fee, I've taken a bigger fee that would incorporate the keynote, but would give some time before the event to actually promote the event, to do some content for them to help on some strategy to build audience and then do some profit sharing.
And that's what I'm really excited about, right? Take a category that I'm, I'm really focused on, help them win and be successful. Not just deliver the keynote, but, but deliver a bunch of things to make the conference even more successful and create long-term, you know, revenue out of that, out of that opportunity.
Josh Linkner:
I love that. I mean, back to your notion of sort of flipping things upside down, radical shifts of innovation. If the old model is deliver a single keynote, which is a transactional event, that's a one-time thing for 60 minutes, you're saying what's the opposite of that? Well, it's to have a deeper relationship that's more of a bundled set of services. And, and you can probably create more impact in those organizations than you could with just a keynote. And obviously it's driving a bigger revenue opportunity. So, spot on, man. That's, that's, that's perfect. Um, you talked about your
John Winsor:
I'd like to, I'd, I'd like to, I'd like to add one more because it just just came to me and it wasn't my idea, but it was, it was, uh, an idea that came from a conference. I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing a, a keynote, uh, in Copenhagen in a couple weeks. And one of the things they asked for is they said, you know, super psyched for this. Could we extend it a little bit longer to make it a workshop? It's 300 people, but could we have a live demo of how some of these things work? And so I've, I'm, I've actually had a couple platforms that are gonna, we're gonna call in to actually do in the middle of the keynote to do a live demo. Certainly, I'm charging the platforms to be involved, so other revenue sources to place other people's content. It's one thing that I can tell a story about how great a platform works or how the world new world of work works, but if I could invite somebody else in who's an expert and let the audience ask them questions and go through a live demo for 15 or 20 minutes, I think it's gonna be a lot more successful.
I'll let you know how that goes.
Josh Linkner:
Amazing. Love that you're continuing to pioneer new models and approaches. Um, I wanted to ask you a little bit about, um, the, the keynote business. So you, you obviously were very successful in other industries, and you've come to this industry, uh, you're still doing other things too. I know that that's not the only thing that you do. But, um, I have two questions actually. Question number one is, what is calling you to, to this world of thought leadership? Um, you probably don't need the money, you got other stuff going on, but, but I know your heart's in it and you're doing it for the right reasons. So my first question is, what, what's calling you to share your message with the world? To write books to get on stages?
John Winsor:
Wow, that's, that's a great, that's a great question. Fir. First of all, I think, you know, and one of the things I've noticed in the impact 11 community is its calling, right? It's, I don't think a lot of us have a choice,
Like, what story should I tell? What is authenticity? How do I see that? And, you know, for everybody, it's, it's a different thing. For me, authenticity means that I have had to live the experience. I can't get on stage and tell somebody else's story. I can tell a story of how, you know, this ski run that never been skied before or, or, you know, setting a record, you know, running up Kilimanjaro or, or, or in a business meeting to, you know, to help reinvent dominoes, those kinds of things. Those lived experiences and being able to pull insights from those experiences. The, the great thing about the human experience, we all have these wonderful experiences and, and I think sometime, and they're very common, right? We all kind of have these things even though they might look different. Like what are those insights that we get from our experiences and how can we deeply rooted in authenticity, but share kind of the deeper meaning to that experience? It is something that's really, I don't know, it, it, part of the process of speaking is for me, is thinking deeply about what these experiences in my own life have meant, and processing those and sharing those. So,
Josh Linkner:
Well, it's funny, they always say, you know, the best way to learn something is to teach it. And when you are examining those experiences for yourself and your own philosophies, and you have to get it crisp enough to share with somebody else, you're getting the benefit yourself too. So I totally understand that. So that was my first question about the, your, your entry into the speaking industry. The other one is, um, what surprises you about our, our strange little industry? Sometimes, um, it is actually, my question is based in a, um, something I wrote about years ago. There's a large company, and when they hire a new team member, 30 days after their start, they have to file what's called an astonishment report, which is what are all the things that surprise them? Because, you know, if you have a, if you have a painting in your living room and it's a little crooked, you don't notice it, it could sit there for five years. Your friend comes in, the first thing they say is, Hey, that, that painting is crooked. Because, you know, you're, you're sort of so close to it. You don't see what's, what's weird about it? You, as, as a successful business person marketing, uh, guru came into the speaking industry. I'm curious, what would your astonishment report look like? What, what would surprised you about this strange cottage industry?
John Winsor:
Yeah, I would say that there's, you know, when I came in, I was pretty understood, and I think you guys really highlighted is there's this kind of spectrum between thought leadership and entertainment. And I think I was arrogant enough to think that there was more value in the thought leadership. You know, when I, when I started, because of the people I've been around, the Jim Collins's and, and folks like that, what I've noticed is that
Josh Linkner:
We're exactly right. And, you know, the spoken world word has, has changed history since the beginning of time. And it, it's an effective tool to drive change, but it has to be done in a thoughtful manner. And I really admire the fact that you're, you know, sort of diving in and learning the craft and, and ultimately to drive better output. Um, so shifting gears, you're the executive in residence at Harvard Business School's laboratory for innovation science. Super impressive by the way that, that sounds badass. Walk us through what you do, what this means and, and what have you gained from this collaboration?
John Winsor:
That's a great question. You know, I, I came to the experience 'cause I, I, you know, sold victors and spoils to Havas and, and Harvard. I got a call from Mike Tushman and Kareem Lanie and, and brought it on from Harvard, just asking if they could do case studies on, on me and my experience. One on Victors and spoils and one on Havas, you know, being, buying victors and spoils. And, uh, the case study was just a magical experience. It's still the number one case study, selling case study 10 years later in the advanced management program. In fact, they're doing a Harvard Business School at Stanford Business School. Uh, not case study, it's a case study, but they're doing an online class specifically on this case study, on how incumbent organizations have a difficult time changing. And a lot of it's because it was the first multimedia case study.
So from that, I just got invited in to help Kareem Ani with the Laboratory for Innovation Science at Harvard. It's been a really amazing experience. First of all, I was incredibly intimidated to get invited in to work at a quote unquote lab at Harvard. And one of the things that I've really understood is that all of us have so much value to give to everybody else. And so, you know, it's, it's our unique perspective on things and finding our voice. You know, there's, there's, there's an, you know, like I said, there's such a intimidation factor walking into Harvard, but when you realize that the reason they want you there is not because
So we at the lab really spent a lot of time, the lab was really launched with this work at nasa. NASA had lost their, had lost, uh, they had, they had had a budgeting process where they lost 80% of their funding for health and human services, and they needed to kept astronauts live in space. So they decided to use alternative talent models to do that, came to the lab to build those. And since we built a lot of other things, we built the, um, center of excellence for Collaborative innovation at na at nasa, they have a budget about 185 million bucks and, you know, connect to 40 different platforms to, to work with about 110 million people globally. That's been really, really fun. But it's also really a safe environment. That's one thing I've really noticed, right? That you can have the wackiest, weirdest, craziest ideas, and you can go try to execute that.
Like four years ago, or maybe it's five years ago, Kareem had this crazy idea of writing a book called Competing in the Age of ai. And everybody's like, ah, that's a great idea. This AI stuff, maybe a couple decades from now, it might be interesting. Uh, and that book, you know, obviously it was the first business strategy book on ai, and it's become, uh, a really big success. So really the time that I spend now is really focused on this open talent. You know, how do we get the right case studies? How do we support the work? What are we doing? But what's interesting is that the lab's been so successful that now the business school has asked Kareem to duplicate that 14 times. And we have a, a center called, um, D Cubed, which is digital design and data. And under D Cubed, we've actually replicated the lab another 13 times.
So we have labs on AI ethics and on other kinds of future of work and lots of different places. But one of the things I love about what Kareem's done is it's very unacademic approach. He took a really a Techstars approach to go out to the faculty, the tenured faculty, and what areas are you really, you know, researching that are fascinating and could fit in dq. We'll give you a little bit of funding over the next three years, and then we'll sunset that and you'll, you'll have the ability, you can learn what we've learned at the lab and we'll give you the support mechanisms through DQ to go launch great work. Really with the effort, the whole effort is really to make Harvard Business School more digitally oriented. I would say one of the Christians I have about Harvard and the business school is that they're, they're behind the times. You know, they've really done a great job of filling roles at sea level or at senior level inside incumbent organizations globally and really fitting into the old way of work. But there's a whole new way of work that you, you're seeing that I'm seeing that needs to be examined, needs to figure out what are the, what are the ethics, what are the metrics, what are the KPIs? How does this whole new world of work work? And that's the thing I'm really fascinated to explore at Harvard.
Josh Linkner:
It's fascinating, man. Um, so, you know, I wish we could chat all day. We don't have, uh, uh, too much time left, but I wanna ask you, you know, from from pioneering work in advertising to being an early digital nomad, uh, from innovating at Harvard to becoming an notable author from founding and selling multiple businesses to skiing, surfing, and climbing exploits from Fiji to Alaska, it really strike me as a renaissance man, which is, it's a pretty cool, you know, multidisciplinary, very wide range. Um, and, and obviously you're speaking, you're thought leading, you're, you're, you're not hanging it up quite the opposite. You're going, going after it hard. What, what's next for you? What do you think this next stretch or this next chapter is for John Windsor?
John Winsor:
Oh, man, that's such a great question. You know, i, i, I kind of put my, you know, my 2024, you know, resolutions or goals or whatever, and where I landed was, I just wanna do less this year. You know, I wanna do, I wanna do more of less, I want to go deeper. You know, I want to go, like if I'm gonna go on a ski trip, I want to like, go somewhere that's never been skied before surf. I was just surfing in the Maldives in, in July, and it was just so awesome to be someplace where not a lot of people are, and exploring someplace new, really not doing it for an Instagram post, but to touch something inside myself of what's it mean to be kind of right there on the edge? And I, I think that's the thing that I really love about speaking, right?
It's like, it's up to you. You're the one that has to stand in front of the crowd and tell the story and, and, and refine it and, and, and really work on the craft. It's super similar to the surf, to surfing, you know, 20, 30 foot waves. You've gotta really take the time to, to really know the craft, to be well versed in it, to be on your feet, you know, when, when weird things happen. So more of that. So less, less breadth and more depth is kind of where, where I feel like I need to go in the next few years. I'm super psyched to do it, especially with the helping of you guys. You guys have been amazing.
Josh Linkner:
Well, what a beautiful place to end our conversation. And as I reflect on it, I think you said a, a phrase there that really is the common thread. You said, exploring something new. And from your approach to disrupting the advertising industry, to decoupling work and jobs, to pioneering ideas at Harvard, to, to surfing in, in, in new spots, you, you, your pattern, my opinion over the, the many years is you're, you're, you're sort of obsessed with exploring something new. And there there's really a, a sense of curiosity and beauty in that, that we can all learn from. So, uh, John, thank you for joining me on Mic Drop. Congratulations on your continued success, and it's a real honor hearing from you and learning from you as, as you continue to, to make such an impact in the world.
John Winsor:
Thanks so much, Josh. Really appreciate being on, and, and, uh, good. You know, good luck with everything, all this great stuff you've got going on.
Josh Linkner:
Reflecting on our conversation today with John WinDor, I was really moved by the range and experience that this gentleman has had from starting and selling multiple companies to living abroad, to doing business all over the world, to skiing and, and, and diving all over the world. This is somebody that pushes the boundaries and it's a really cool reminder for us all when we think about exploring new things, trying something different and going deeper rather than broader in our expertise. I also love that he felt, feels called to be a speaker, not, he's not doing it for the money, he's not doing it for the applause. He's doing it to create meaningful impact and make the world a little bit better. And of course, by doing it with that type of mindset, we know that his economic success will follow. John, thanks for your inspiration. Thanks for being a pioneer across so many realms in life, and thanks for joining me today on Mic Drop. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit mic drop podcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next mic drop moment.