Riaz Meghji is relatively new to the keynote circuit but has already been making massive waves. But Riaz isn’t new to broadcasting— he’s made a career out of it. This week we explore how some of the most powerful principles he’s learned in his broadcast work can be applied to making your keynotes more engaging, empathetic, and effective.
Forging Deeper Connections (ft. Riaz Meghji)
What can broadcasting teach us about keynote speaking?
OPENING QUOTE:
And the impact of these past two years could be stress, anxiety, depression, disconnection, and while an overarching theme we've talked about being the great resignation, I believe that's an outcome of the great disconnection.”
-Riaz Meghji
GUEST BIO:
Riaz Meghji is a human connection expert and author of the book Every Conversation Counts: The 5 Habits of Human Connection that Build Extraordinary Relationships. He's also an accomplished broadcaster with 17 years of television hosting experience. Over the course of his career, he’s interviewed experts on current affairs, sports, entertainment, politics, and business.
Links:
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[6:22] - Silence and Pacing
Powerful tools in broadcasting or keynote speaking
Riaz points out how he noticed that in the virtual world there was widespread discomfort with silence. He then used intentional pausing to his advantage, using it to impact pacing and break through the white noise. Through silence, he says, people will stop in their tracks and ask, “What happened?”
[9:09] - The Power of a Virtual Green Room
Creating deeper connection in remote keynotes
Riaz likes to get into his remote sessions as much as 30 minutes before the event actually starts. This gives him the chance to connect with the MC, other speakers, or any other key people so that they can connect on a deeper level before the event. This provides more context and even helps simulate both the adrenaline rush and the tranquility of being in a green room together before a big event.
[14:38] - Make Small Talk Bigger
Lessons on human connection
For too long we’ve looked at small talk as a defense mechanism to prevent us from getting real in front of someone we don’t know or hitting a nerve with someone else. But if we make our small talk bigger, it presents us with massive opportunities to serve. Ask first and talk second. Be intentional with your curiosity. You’ll be amazed at what you discover about the people around you
[30:39] - What is Assertive Empathy?
Taking on difficult conversations the right way
Need to have a difficult conversation? Try applying the principal of assertive empathy— relationship first, logic second. It’s all about leading with a sense of discovery, rather than posturing our own position. Begin by asking questions and getting to know the other side’s perspective before sharing your own. You’ll be amazed by how much more productive those conversations become.
[34:18] - Be Interested, Not Interesting
The power of making people feel famous
We all have an innate desire to belong. Whether you’re a presenter on stage or a leader with your team, what can you do to go the extra mile and allow someone to feel recognized, acknowledged, seen, and appreciated? And don’t wait until some big conference or town hall to celebrate people’s wins— celebrate them in everyday interactions whenever you notice them.
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ABOUT MIC DROP:
Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by ImpactEleven.
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Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.
Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.
Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.
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SHOW CREDITS:
Riaz Meghji:
And the impact of these past two years could be stress, anxiety, depression, disconnection, and while an overarching theme we've talked about being the great resignation, I believe that's an outcome of the great disconnection.
Josh Linkner:
Welcome to Mic Drop, the podcast for professional speakers. We cover the ins and outs of the business, helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages at higher fees. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by eSpeakers. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Get ready for some inspiring mic drop moments together.
Josh Linkner:
Today's show is sponsored by ImpactEleven, formerly known as 3 Ring Circus, the best and most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers. They're not just elevating an industry we know and love. They work with hundreds of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. To learn more and schedule a free intro call, visit impacteleven.com. That's impact, E L E V E N, .com.
Josh Linkner:
Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. If you want more audiences and organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use eSpeakers to manage and grow their business. When you use eSpeakers, you'll feel confident about your business, package yourself up for success, and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30-day trial, visit espeakers.com/micdrop. That's espeakers.com/micdrop.
Josh Linkner:
Today's show is about connection, human connection in an increasingly digital and isolated world, the connection between broadcasting and keynote speaking and the connection that today's guest is having with audiences around the world. In this episode of Mic Drop, I sit down with Riaz Meghji, a human connection expert and author of the book, Every Conversation Counts: the 5 Habits of Human Connection that Build Extraordinary Relationships. He's also an accomplished broadcaster with 17 years of television hosting experience. He's interviewed experts on current affairs, sports, entertainment, politics, and business.
Josh Linkner:
In my conversation with Riaz, we cover the elements from broadcasting that can be applied to keynote speaking, such as the effectiveness of silence and the power of pacing, how to create deeper connection in a remote keynote by creating a virtual green room, and keys from Riaz research on human connection, such as making our small talk bigger, listening without distraction, putting aside our perfect persona, assertive empathy, and making others feel famous. How can we build deeper, more authentic connections with our keynote clients, audiences, team members and bureau partners alike? If these questions are on your mind, you won't want to miss today's episode. Riaz, welcome to Mic Drop.
Riaz Meghji:
So good to be here, Josh. Thanks for the invite.
Josh Linkner:
So excited to spend some time with you, as always. I just always enjoy our conversations and I'd love for you to maybe give us a little bit of an introduction for those that don't know you, a little bit about your background and what you speak about and the state of your speaking business, today.
Riaz Meghji:
Yeah. Thanks for the question. For context, for the past two decades, I've done what you're doing, right now. So I've worked as a television broadcaster in Canada, interviewing people from all walks of life for mainstream television here up north and a few years back, credit to 3 Ring Circus/ImpactEleven, switched out of TV to focus on speaking full-time. So the space that I get to serve in is really on the powerful opportunity of meaningful human connection and building relationships. And I see a lot of themes right now with companies and conferences of the power of connection, connecting with purpose, collaboration is a big one, and how we just humanize our spaces, whether it's with our teams or organizations, even with our loved ones. So professionally speaking for about eight years, but full-time, the past three, after making the switch out of television to now the stage and virtual stages, as well.
Josh Linkner:
That's fantastic. Well, congrats on your success. What percentage of your business is in your native country of Canada versus either here in the US or other parts of the world?
Riaz Meghji:
Most of the business right now is North America. I would say about 70% of it is up north in Canada. There was a nice push with the transition of the familiarity with broadcast in Canada to create that sense of trust of, "Oh, hey, I know Riaz. Let's bring him in and let's connect." And over the past three years, and really taking the speaking business seriously and starting to network and learn and keeping this beginner's mindset of how this business works.
Riaz Meghji:
I think one of the things that blew my mind was when I first came to an ImpactEleven event, which was 3 Ring Circus back in the day, and hearing you describe, there's 150,000 events in the US every single year, and it's such a different market, the states versus Canada, and exploring how to get on these stages and when you get that opportunity, how to deliver the best value, best experience possible so that word of mouth creates this domino effect. So it's Canada's strong, it's been building in the States, and there's the occasional virtual one that's happened worldwide, as well.
Josh Linkner:
So as you mentioned, you spent the bulk of your career on camera and in broadcast, now you're on stage. What are some of the things that helped you become strong on stage, not just from a performance standpoint, but helping your business thrive as a professional speaker, that you learned from the world of broadcasting?
Riaz Meghji:
Well, one of the first things that really stood out to me, and this was apparent in the virtual world where there was this great discomfort with silence. And what I noticed on live television especially, I'll give you an example. For 10 years, I did a mainstream morning show called Breakfast Television here in Vancouver, BC where I'm joining you from today. And when you do a morning show, it's almost, if people choose to let you into their living room, you are wallpaper on the background as they're going through the motions to get their day started. But the interesting part of the effectiveness of silence, anytime there is an intentional pause, people will stop in their tracks and be like, "What happened? What went wrong here?" Because when you hear that constant stream of noise, it almost just becomes white noise in the background.
Riaz Meghji:
So I found intentional pausing was really powerful in the live realm to understand the power of pacing and whether that be a five to seven minute live interview on television or a direct presenter to audience at home, and then bringing that to the stage, one of the things that I've found, especially in the virtual realm, because we all know when, depending on the platform, depending on the connection, we could throw out a thought provoking question and there is that pause and being okay with that. And then actually, the television producing background, one of the things that I do, especially when virtual events are still happening, I'll talk to the producers beforehand and say, "Hey, who's hosting this event? Who's your MC?" And making sure, not only have we done all the discovery calls on content, but connecting with the MC.
Riaz Meghji:
So I bring them in for the Q&A, so it feels like, "Oh, this is a cohost." So while we throw the question out, it's okay to have that silence, but then having that contrast of voice with the MC to know that they're answering the question, there's a great dialogue happening, and then you bring in the audience. So then it almost feels like a talk show in the virtual realm with the Q&A. And I've found those producing aspects on the broadcast level really helped enrich the experience when we were trying to connect virtually with an audience.
Josh Linkner:
That's such great advice. I think the pause is underused and so deeply powerful. Miles Davis once said that it's not the notes you play, it's the notes you don't play. And it's that white space that you create in between the art that really brings the magic to life. So I appreciate you sharing that with us. So even though you have spoken to audiences for years, it really is, of course, a different medium when you're on television, when you're on stage, and now on virtual. What are some of the differences, or adaptations I should say, that you made going from on stage, and I know obviously, you're still in person on stage, compared to when you do a virtual event. How should we be thinking about optimizing for onstage versus virtual?
Riaz Meghji:
Yeah, I'll start with virtual. I was doing an event yesterday virtually and always, when they say, "Hey, you want to log in 15 minutes before," I always say to them, "How about we log in 30?" Because what I try to do in my sessions is create a conversation. If we're talking human connection, it's not just myself. I think to myself, "How can I include the MC?" And one of the elements I do and questions I ask within this keynote is defining conversations. So aside from an event planner call, I'll ask, "Can I talk to two to three leaders that are prominent in your organization that people would know, so I could just understand more context and let's choose one that can participate live." So it's creating the green room effect virtually, because when we're live backstage, there's this adrenaline rush, there's chaos, there's production teams.
Riaz Meghji:
But when you're in a virtual green room, there is an element of tranquility that all the prep's done and now we're just here. And my goal is how to just get that guest, how to get the MC talking so everybody's loose, everybody's comfortable, and then bringing that into the space so the tech team feels comfortable too. And running through the deck, even though we've done it before, doing it one last time. And I provide virtually a producer queue sheet because I find some companies are using third party platforms, so I'll always give them a producer queue sheet as a backup and say, "Let's run the deck so you understand every queue, so there are no guesses all around." And then, knowing what's shared with the leaders and MCs beforehand, they're all set up for success. And then getting a feel of, how is this audience engaging throughout the day?
Riaz Meghji:
If you're opening keynote speaker, you'll only get so much, but say for example, yesterday, the opportunity was closing keynote speaker day one, tell me about the day. What resonated? What awards were given out? What type of recognition? And that skillset of working in a live TV environment, when you do that, there is the opportunity to hear something like breaking news, document a few things down quickly, and then riff those on the fly if your foundation is set. And people will be like, "Wow, this presenter knows us. He has been with us. He knows the through line." So I think that's a great opportunity, the virtual green room, of just giving yourself more time before you go live.
Riaz Meghji:
And you know that age old adage of when we're doing it in person, even if I'm the afternoon speaker, doing my best, when they say, "Hey, do you mind if we do this tech check at 7:00 AM? I know you don't speak till one." I just say to them, "Absolutely." And I say, "Do you mind if I stay for your opening keynote, your opening plenary session and keynote?" Because that sets the tone for the day of what the priorities are for the organization, where they want to go, what the objectives of the conference are. And those are just great clues to weave into the keynote so people will respect. It's not just about, "Hey, Riaz the presenter coming on stage sharing his message." He is listening in, he cares about our message, and he's weaving it into what he's going to share to motivate our audience too.
Josh Linkner:
I love it. I mean, a couple key takeaways from all that, it's making sure that not just that you're prepared, but your host is prepared to alleviate any concerns or snafus, the notion of you being present and even more than the contract demands so that you can understand the nuances, and really participate to make sure that your message is relevant and on point to that audience. I think it's crucial, it's a willingness to serve, and it's sort of a heartfelt approach that I think is no surprise that you're continuing to thrive out on the circuit.
Josh Linkner:
With that in mind, I'd love to switch gears for a minute. Your book which is about Every Connection Counts: The 5 Habits of Human Connection that Build Extraordinary Relationships, it's an excellent book. Everyone listening should immediately buy a copy. But I would love to actually just have some fun with you. Maybe let's go through them one at a time, these five big ideas. I'd love for you, if you don't mind, share the idea, maybe reflect on what we speakers can learn from that idea, and how we might apply it to our speaking business. We'll pause a little bit and chat and then we'll go to the next one. So kind of rinse and repeat five little mini segments on the body of work that you've so masterfully shared with the world.
Riaz Meghji:
Yeah. Thanks, Josh. This whole message behind Every Conversation Counts really speaks to the challenge that exists right now. I believe the US health firm, Cigna, their Loneliness Index put this in powerful perspective over the last couple of years that loneliness is costing companies $154 billion annually in lost productivity due to stress related absenteeism. The impact of these past two years could be stress, anxiety, depression, disconnection. And while an overarching theme we've talked about being the Great Resignation, I believe that's an outcome of the great disconnection. So how can we elevate this sense of humanity, this sense of vulnerability, and above all, this sense of connection when we're building relationships, whether that's within our teams or within our clients? So the concept of this book was to do deep dive of this challenge of loneliness not only in North America but all around the world, and then unlock five key habits that would help people break through this in intentional ways. Truly, all of us getting out of autopilot mode, which we may have been in pre-pandemic, and getting intentional with how we reach out and check in.
Josh Linkner:
Such a great summary. Let's dive in if you're cool with it. What's habit number one?
Riaz Meghji:
Yeah. Habit number one is all about making our small talk bigger. The interesting thing about small talk is, anytime I talk about this concept on the stage, I can see a smirk appear on people's faces because they're just thinking, "Well yeah, we don't like small talk." Maybe that was the silver lining of the pandemic. We could avoid the superficial conversations that would just be about the weather or maybe about, "Hey, what's going on with the vaccine," or, "What's going on with the big game?" And missing out where people are truly at.
Riaz Meghji:
The challenge I like to introduce for audience is that maybe we looked at small talk as this defense mechanism that prevented us from the embarrassment of getting emotional in front of someone that we don't know, or that prevented that fear of hitting a nerve when somebody's truly struggling and we're not ready for their emotional reaction. And that is such a huge opportunity to serve. So, how we lean in and make our small talk bigger. One of the key tips I encourage to unlock is how we can ask first and talk second. There's an interesting part of how we can be intentional with our curiosity to truly show people they are interesting. Because everybody is an expert in their own lives, everybody's an expert in their own industry, and the power of our questions can really show them how interesting they are and focus on less info, more emotion.
Riaz Meghji:
A great example of this is the late psychiatrist Gordon Livingston. He did phenomenal work on the happiness equation, because some people then say, "Well, what if you have no context of the person in front of you and you show up to an event, a bootcamp, and your intention is to connect but you don't know what to say?" I think that is a trap that is a common one for all of us. We fall into this trap of trying to say the best thing to impress that person, but what could we ask? Livingston's work found that the happiest people have three things in common. They have something to do, someone to love, and something to look forward to. Three easy areas, three easy questions to pursue, but that unlocks a high emotional component.
Riaz Meghji:
And not even stopping there, when people start giving you a piece of themselves, how can we still follow and explore their stories, not just answers, because that is where emotion lives. And at the end of the day, whether we're presenting on stage or trying to connect with our teams in a meeting or just one to one, emotion is what can connect us. It can be the thing that polarizes us. But above all, emotion is what motivates us. So how can we provoke positive emotion in all of our conversations?
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, it's such a great insight, big talk instead of small talk. I think it applies in a couple ways. I love your perspective from a speaker standpoint. I was in an event recently in Nashville. Like we often do, we'll get down for the sound check and you're sort of hanging out with your core meeting planner. Usually it's, "Hey, how's the weather? How about the ballgame?" So in this case, we got into a much deeper conversation about her kid. One of her children struggles with some mental health issues, one of my kids does. We really kind of created this deeper connection, and I noticed that the interaction thereafter was totally different, both leading through the keynote. Afterwards, we've since communicated. I think there'll be follow-on work. And I wasn't doing it to get more business necessarily, but it really did deepen the connection I think will have an impact on my speaking practice.
Josh Linkner:
The other insight, I think small talk versus big talk is when you're giving a keynote, you're to a degree having a conversation. And when you can't necessarily ask somebody a deep, long question, the audience, an open-ended question and hear a long response and issue follow-up questions, I think the notion of going deeper rather than shallower makes a lot of sense. So if we can establish a deeper connection through the stories that we share or the vulnerability that we offer, it does elevate the relationship, and of course in turn, our business. Any other insights before you get to point number two of how big talk over small talk can impact one's speaking practice?
Riaz Meghji:
Yeah. As you articulate all of that, of talking about that client's relationship with their child, that is so interesting because if we look at common threads of what our dialogue consists of on a daily basis, we'll talk about the superficial stuff that we've already referenced. We'll talk career, we'll talk health, but where does emotion live? It lives in relationships. So the fact you're able to go there with that client and create a safe space, I think that is the key. A safe space, whether you're one to one, especially if you're on a stage, of the questions you're willing to ask, how deep you're willing to go. Does there need to be a trigger warning of some of the content that might be really heavy, but be respectful of the audience so you can prepare them for what's coming?
Riaz Meghji:
A great example that I've found has really served audiences when I ask... One of the questions I ask in my keynote is, what is the most important conversation of your life that you believe brought you to the point you're at today? This is a huge question to ask somebody on the spot. And this is why when I work with groups that enjoy this idea and say, "You know what, this could ignite a quick set intimacy with our audience. Let's do this," I will ask leaders this question before the presentation and find out who is willing to be open, who is comfortable with it. Because Josh, your definition of safe could be very different from my definition of safe.
Riaz Meghji:
So one, choosing the leader that feels courageous enough to share. And then two, helping set them up for success because there's a lot of nerves saying, "Hey, if this is what we do on the regular, we're more comfortable in this space." You bring a leader up that's not used to this, they could be nervous, they could forget what they're going to say. It's, how do we set them up for success and make them feel safe, which is very important in this process. So any collaboration ideas a speaker might have, I just say, "I invite you to think how can I set that person up for success and make them feel safe in this process, so everybody wins."
Josh Linkner:
Perfectly said. What's habit number two?
Riaz Meghji:
Listen without distraction. I find this one very interesting because if you lead with this sense of curiosity and people start giving you a piece of themselves, then lies the challenge of, we live in this culture of convenience, we live in this culture of efficiency. Things are moving so fast, it's easy for our attention to be drawn in so many different places. When we look at the neuroscience of how our brains work, our brains can absorb four to 500 words per minute, yet the average person speaks at a rate of about 125 words per minute. So that's why we can get caught up in multitasking. That's why, Josh, you and I could be in a conversation in person at dinner and I could look down on my phone and say, "Yep, that's great. Okay, that's... Oh, you did that at your keynote? No way. When's the next bootcamp? Okay."
Riaz Meghji:
This simple task or idea, action of having your phone face down on a dinner table, research has proven it impairs your ability to listen by 20%. So step one is, how do we combat our distractions? Our distractions will be there. We cannot remove them, but we can level up our awareness of what's getting in the way. And is that technology? Is that the emotional distraction when we disagree with somebody and then shut ourselves off together? Is that the scheduling that happens at home? Before we went live, we were talking about childcare responsibilities of understanding how we can juggle, how we can get things done so we can do it in a positive way. So, combating our distractions is one.
Riaz Meghji:
The other is how we can over prepare to improvise. There's something really key about this, and this was a critical mistake I made as a broadcaster at the beginning of my career. I would research the subject because preparation for any event, whether we're speaking a big pitch, a discovery call, big meeting, preparation will give us confidence in the moment. But our ability to lean in, listen and improvise, that's what will give us connection. I think of the example you just said with the client talking about her child in the relationship, and then boom, you're following her lead.
Riaz Meghji:
One of the first questions I would ask in the green room after I would exchange formalities with the guest, which is very similar to being in a virtual green room or backstage with some key players right before you go out to present, if you're just meeting them, it's like, "Hey Josh, what's on your mind right now?" I was finding the first thing that would come out of a guest's mouth, that was the priority occupying their mental space. And then there was a huge opportunity to follow their lead and deviate from the questions that I thought were great because the mistake I made before was, yep, that was a successful interview because I did the research. I came up what I thought were brilliant questions. And then I started to realize was this person really seen, was their message heard, were they acknowledged the way they needed to be? And that just leads with this sense of being willing to improvise in the moment. Because sometimes they'll give you things that you may not expect, but it could lead to a very powerful moment in experience, especially when you're live on stage.
Josh Linkner:
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Josh Linkner:
Yeah, it's funny, I was speaking with the CEO of a large top five speaker bureau. And I said, "What's the one thing that speakers should do better?" And funny enough, she said, "Listen." And I think that means really listening to your client on a briefing call, listening to their needs, understanding the nuances of your audience, being there as a servant, not just as a blabbermouth, resetting one's line. So I think this notion of listening without distraction is crucial. What's habit number three?
Riaz Meghji:
To put aside our perfect persona. And maybe it's the culture of comparison that we've been emerging through these past couple of years, of how we show up on social media. Is that the perfect post? Do I need to edit my LinkedIn post? Is it the perfect pros? All of these factors of how we bring a sense of realness and humanity to how we're communicating? I love reading your LinkedIn posts of just a takeaway, a bit of humanity, and it's useful of how we show up. I'll never forget when you talked about the idea of, and this was before I met you, the risks of how we overthink the risks we might take to do something new, but never underestimate the risk of standing still. That to this day, before I met you, I thought, "I want to learn more from Josh Linkner." Because there are things to offer, but that takes a bit of courage to stand up and share a bit of yourself.
Riaz Meghji:
And one of the most impactful conversations I had was years back with Darren Hardy. And I love his book, The Compound Effect. I know he is been a mentor to CEOs around the world. And I had 10 minutes in the room after an event Darren presented at In Whistler, British Columbia. And Darren's interviewed some of the greats in this world. And I said, "Darren, look, what is your secret? What is your secret to getting people to open up?" And he said two words that resonate with me to this day. And he said, "It's simple, man. Go first." And I said, "Go first? Tell me about this." And he said, "If you want to motivate somebody, go first and find out what motivates them and help them achieve that." And then I think about this world we've been living in, this hybrid reality over the past couple of years.
Riaz Meghji:
And what about those people that have been virtually onboarded, never met somebody in-person, have this high level of anxiety, lack of sense of belonging. You could be the leader in the room that goes first and talks about your first day on the job and what you felt and how difficult it was. And then immediately you start to create a safe space where it's okay for that person to open up. Being that person in the audience. If you see a message and you're hearing a message from a speaker that really resonates. How many times have we been in the room and the speaker throws out a really powerful question? And now that we're coming back together in person and Canada has been a bit slower than the states, people are looking around the room of, "Should I put my hand up? I don't want to be judged. I don't want to say the wrong thing." But the idea of going first with that question could break the ice so everybody feels safe to ask questions and then a powerful conversation ensues.
Riaz Meghji:
So that idea of putting aside a perfect persona is one, going first, but two, with the degree of vulnerability. Because some people then say to me, "Josh, what's the difference between vulnerability and oversharing?" And there is a fine line. And there's a psychological concept known as the Pratfall Effect, where it's important for us to convey credibility before vulnerability. Because if we've earned that, if we've done that work to be that authority and expert on a topic, our ability to go first with vulnerability can then draw people closer. But if they see us on stage and they're questioning our competence to begin with, and then we floor the gas pedal with that vulnerability, it can almost backfire and create distance instead of connection. So I think that's important for us to keep in mind as a leader in team meetings, as a speaker on the stage of how can we convey credibility before vulnerability, but above all just have the courage to show up in bigger ways.
Josh Linkner:
Again, I'm just loving all of these habits. The notion of putting aside that perfect persona is so key. We study likability among speakers. And the speaker that comes out there and has never made a mistake in their life and everything's perfect and they're sort of condescending and arrogant, you hate that person. Nobody likes that. Whereas if somebody is warm and willing to be a bit vulnerable, not to your point at the expense of their credibility, but in honoring that none of us are perfect, that's the person you fall in love with. And I completely agree. That applies both on stage and off stage on either side of an event. So I love the momentum here what we're sharing. What's habit number four?
Riaz Meghji:
Habit number four builds on this notion of courage of how we can show up and lean in and just be assertively empathetic. And some people hear this and they're like, "Assertive and empathetic. Is that even possible?" And I believe this starts with intention. Because if we look at difficult colleagues, difficult conversations, and are we leaning in when things get uncomfortable. One of the points of research that really stood out to me was Vital Smarts, this leadership training company that found over the past couple of years, one in four leaders avoids difficult conversations for up to six months. One in 10, up to two years. And that in itself, creating these cultures of avoidance and then you throw in the past two years and the great resignation, if people don't feel that this is a safe space to lean in and talk about the things that matter most, they're going to leave, They're going to retreat. We're going to deal with quiet, quitting all around, and resentment and culture will crumble.
Riaz Meghji:
So the idea of assertive empathy, no matter how difficult the conversation is, is how we can start with relationship first, logic second. And I'll give you an example of if we're in this conversation and we're on two ends of an important issue, instead of barging in and trying to posture with our position, how can we lead with the sense of discovery before we dismiss that person? Case in point, using questions and start with how and what. Like, "Hey, Josh, how do you feel this chat went on the podcast? What do you feel is impossible right now in the speaking space?" Well, what would make it possible? If you had to do the last two years over with your business, with your boot camps, what would you do differently?
Riaz Meghji:
And then there's that element of humility that no matter how much intention I come in with, I could still be missing something and I could lean in and say, "So Josh, what is the question I fail to ask to understand your reality? How could I show up for you in bigger ways?" And when we start doing that, the other side realizes, "Riaz and Josh, they care about me. We may not see eye to eye, but they care about me. Let's do this together." And then we can start focusing on what we can agree on so they understand, "Hey, this is the two of us versus a challenge, instead of me versus you." So this notion of assertive empathy really involves checking ourselves, checking our emotional distractions that might get in the way, and just lead with empathetic curiosity.
Josh Linkner:
I wish that we had some more assertive empathy here in the United States political landscape, which is about as furious and divisive as it gets. But I wanted to understand that concept, which I love by the way. How has assertive of empathy helped you in your speaking business? You've made a leap that many listeners want to make. You were full-time in one field, and now you're a full-time professional keynote speaker. How has this principle helped you become a successful speaker?
Riaz Meghji:
The biggest benefit of this approach is the realization that I cannot motivate, inspire, or connect with anyone unless I understand them first. And being willing to ask the question, being willing to keep the beginner's mindset. This is honestly what I've loved about the space you've created, whether it is on this podcast, whether it's with the boot camps, the community, everyone maintains this beginner's mindset that no matter how much success you've achieved, sure you could be deemed an expert to be able to get booked on stage. But the challenge is in an expert's mind, there are limited possibilities. In a beginner's mind, there are infinite opportunities.
Riaz Meghji:
And I think that in itself is just staying curious Longer. As a broadcaster, you do it when somebody comes in, you talk politics when somebody is like, "Oh man, make sure you grill that guy." Which obviously you can't have a safe space without accountability, so keeping people accountable is important, but also staying open without the bias and judgment and assumption and to just lean in and understand what drives the direction you're going and asking these questions to understand somebody before you write them off altogether. And I think that is allowed when somebody understands, "Oh, he is actually listening to what I'm saying, rather than just coming at me with venom." It opens up a world of possibilities for connection.
Josh Linkner:
I'm just speculating, but I could see that being a driver in your launch and continued success. Because you don't come across like many speakers do, self congratulatory and brag and arrogant. You really are empathetic to those around you, but again, in a confident and assertive manner. So I think that makes a ton of sense. It is definitely connecting for me. So bring us home with habit number five.
Riaz Meghji:
This is a fun one and this is one I really love of what organizations can do, and I'm getting excited seeing what organizations are doing to lift their people up. Habit number five is how we can all make people feel famous. And I don't mean this in a superficial way. I mean this in the innate desire, that core sense of belonging we all need right now. And whether you're a presenter on stage or whether you're a leader with your team, what can you do to go the extra mile to allow that person to feel recognized, acknowledged, seen, appreciated? And one of the things that I see is commonplace, even though the intention is pure.
Riaz Meghji:
I'll give you a clear example of somebody could see you or I speak on stage and say, "Oh man, Josh, Riaz, great job of you two on that podcast." But to me, I'm like grateful for the comment, but there's a sense of curiosity that lies there of what does great job mean? Because honestly, if it wasn't a great job, people, they want to avoid resistance and confrontation. They'll probably say great job anyways, just to brush it off. I always invite leaders to think, how can we practice specificity with our praise? So I could easily say, "Josh, thank you for the wisdom that you have instilled in all of us speakers and showing us the potential of the market out there. You've not only given me hope, you've given me motivation and your generosity. You are the epitome of generosity always wins. And it reminds me of how I can continue to give back and do the exact same thing." And making that praise specific, making it urgent.
Riaz Meghji:
So we're not waiting till a big conference or a town hall to celebrate each other, making it public. We've got all these great social media tools to communicate messaging, but seeing somebody that does something just amazing and calling them up on social media saying, "I saw this. This was so good. This is what is changing the game and this moved me." And above all, making it purposeful. If we're going to give some praise to somebody, how does their contribution connect to the values of the organization, connect to the values of the community, so that person just feels ignited.
Riaz Meghji:
They might not be doing it for praise, but when they're seen in that way, that sense of connection is going to drive retention, it's going to drive loyalty, and it's going to just drive a positive engagement, where people will be excited to be together again and excited to come back to the office in some cases, where companies are struggling to do that as well.
Josh Linkner:
Right. It really resonates with me at an interpersonal level and certainly organizationally, but even taking a step beyond that for those listening to this podcast, the notion of making your audience feel famous. I think one of the mistakes often speakers make is that they think it's all about them, that they're the hero. And if you're performing a rock concert, yeah, you're the rock star, but if you're a great keynote speaker, your audience is the rock star. You're there as the conduit to make them feel special, to make them feel famous.
Josh Linkner:
And so I think that really makes a lot of sense. And furthermore, all those throughout the value chain, think about the speaker who's a total pain in the and the bureau agent dreads calling him or her, versus the speaker that makes that agent feel famous, or makes the client feel famous, or makes the customers of the host feel famous, or makes the AV people feel famous. So just that, that's a really cool benchmark, but if you can make them feel great, your success will come as a byproduct.
Riaz Meghji:
I want to build on that, because this is such a great point from a speaking standpoint of entering the space. As soon as you enter the space as a speaker, I would do this in television as well. If a high profile guest would come in, obviously you greet them, but greeting and seeing the eyes, I know you've talked about this before of a speaker takes the stage, make the MC feel famous, connect with them and show that moment instead of, it's almost the throwaway line of, "Hey, big thanks to Josh for the intro here." Connect with them on that stage. With AV, connect with them and remember their name, because if something goes sideways and hey, when you're live and it's a production it could. I could say, "Hey Yanna, I love it. We're live. Anything can happen. Can you help me out," instead of, "Next slide, please. Can we get a microphone?"
Riaz Meghji:
And then you could come off as this cold individual, but as soon as you personalize it with that person's name, they'll be like, "How does this speaker know everybody in the room?" And it shows you made the effort to greet every single person. The speaker isn't the most important person in the production. You're just one person. And sitting in the opening plenary session, one of the things I love to do as well is document what the CEO said, "Document what maybe an organizer said, so you can name check them live during your session and it feels like you're having a conversation with friends. But this takes intention to remember who's AV, who's the CEO, who's the event planner, what are the conversations that were had at lunch that you overheard?" And people will be like, "This speaker is so dialed in, they showed up and they're ready to out-care the competition." And I think that's how speakers succeed. That's what I strive to do, is champion the message of, with every conversation, how can you out-care the competition? And these little intentional actions can make a profound difference.
Josh Linkner:
Out-care, the competition. What a great concept and a beautiful sentiment. And again, I think that your insights today across these all five points and your generosity has made us really all feel famous. Riaz, any last thoughts for speakers that are at various points in career? Some listening, our world famous rock stars making millions of dollars a year. Some are earlier on in the journey. Maybe just a final piece of advice that you might provide to those of us like you, that are deeply passionate and committed to this, to our industry.
Riaz Meghji:
Two things that have stood out for me that have helped my momentum up until this point, and look, I got a long way to go, is one, get a coach and two, stay coachable. And I know we both have a great mentor in common in the great Nick Morgan, who has taught many great pillars about the speaking industry. But I'll tell you about an experience that was very humbling, but I stayed open to the possibilities. And this was about a year and a half ago. Nick was very generous in his introductions with speaker bureaus and there was a president at a speaker bureau that watched a video clip. And in retrospect, you know what? I realized it wasn't a good enough clip. And the rep took the call and he took it out of respect for the connection and introduction that was made. And he just said, "Hey, this isn't good enough."
Riaz Meghji:
And this idea of pausing with silence, honestly it caught me off guard. I was surprised. And then I just thought, "Tell me more about this. What is missing in your eyes? Because I have the utmost respect for what you've created and the respect you have in this industry." And he just kind of paused and he said, "That's interesting you asked that, because most speakers, when I say this to them, they argue with me." And he said, "Here are my thoughts." And then he ended the call and he said, "Hey, if and when this turns around and there's some business we can do together, don't mind me if I come back to you and we could book something." And I thought, what a great opportunity to actually just learn and check the ego. And what did I do? I went back to my mentor and I said, "You know what, I got some feedback.
Riaz Meghji:
How do we make it better?" And that willingness to have open candor. And I had Nick in that case, just go to town on it and just say, "You got to change this. Let's make this better." And what did it do? It made me a better speaker. So finding a mentor and a coach you can trust. And then two, staying coachable when those conversations get difficult, because feedback is a gift in this industry. And half the time, people will avoid it. They don't want the confrontation. But when they give it to you, take it. Use it to your advantage, and just think about how you can level up your point of service the next time you take the stage, and that's what I've aimed to do time and time again.
Josh Linkner:
What a beautiful way to wrap our conversation. Riaz, thank you for your generosity, the spirit, your energetic empathy. You're making us feel like rock stars ourselves. And the notion of checking your ego and getting both coached and remaining coachable. I think will resonate for with our listeners for many years to come. Wishing you continued success, my friend, and hopefully we'll get you back here for another discussion on Mic Drop.
Riaz Meghji:
Amazing. Thanks Josh.
Josh Linkner:
I really enjoyed my conversation with Riaz and I feel especially connected to him after hearing his insights and perspective. Some key takeaways. Number one, we're really in a connection crisis. Keynote speakers that help forge deeper, more meaningful connections with clients and audiences alike will outperform those who show up with emotional distance. Number two, I love the concept of making other people feel famous. A great keynote speech is about the audience, not the speaker. It's about showing them what's possible and making them feel special, not relishing in our own successes. Make people feel famous, so powerful.
Josh Linkner:
And number three, my favorite idea from today's conversation, out care your competition, not out punch, or out hustle, or out think, out care. That idea knocked me off my chair. Talk about a mic drop moment. I really appreciated Riaz's prompt to us all to make deeper human connections as our world becomes ever more increasingly chaotic. There's simply no tech as powerful as humanity. And Riaz's success is the embodiment of this principle. Together we learn today that every connection counts. Let's continue to forge connections in our field, and in turn, we'll continue to enjoy momentum and success together.
Josh Linkner:
Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. And a big thanks to our sponsored Impact 11. I'm your host Josh Linkner. Thanks for listening and here's to your Mic Drop moment.