In this episode of Mic Drop, Michelle Anne Johnson and Doug Manuel share their unique paths through art, rhythm, and leadership, revealing how creativity shapes personal power and global connections.
A transformative figure in leadership communication, Michelle leverages her extensive background in acting and personal development to help leaders harness the power of presence. Her journey from performing on television to coaching Fortune 500 executives showcases her unique ability to empower individuals to lead with authenticity, confidence, and purpose.
A former BBC documentary producer turned rhythm revolutionary, Doug's life took a new direction after immersing himself in West African drumming. With a mission to use art to connect people and cultures, Doug has created stage shows and keynotes that blend musical performance with insights into engagement, collaboration, and community. Now based in Senegal, he continues to impact lives through his nonprofit work and innovative approach to keynote speaking.
The Power of Presence: Michelle Anne Johnson delves into the essence of presence in leadership, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, confidence, and purpose. She shares insights into how personal power can dramatically enhance one's impact in both personal and professional realms.
Rhythm as a Universal Language: Doug Manuel explores how rhythm and music can bridge cultural divides and foster a sense of unity and collaboration. From corporate workshops to community outreach in Senegal, Doug's work illustrates the profound impact of art on human connection and engagement.
Transformative Journeys: Both guests share their personal transformations, highlighting the pivotal moments that led them from traditional careers to the world of keynote speaking. Their stories inspire listeners to pursue their passions and make a meaningful impact.
The Art of Keynote Speaking: Michelle and Doug offer valuable advice for aspiring keynote speakers, focusing on the importance of storytelling, authenticity, and audience engagement. They discuss the challenges and rewards of translating personal experiences into compelling presentations that resonate with diverse audiences.
Inspiring Others: Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own journeys and consider how they can use their unique skills and experiences to inspire others. Whether through the arts, social impact work, or leadership development, everyone has the potential to make a significant impact in their communities and beyond.
Learn more about Michelle Anne Johnson:
Learn more about Doug Manuel:
Learn more about Josh Linkner:
ABOUT MIC DROP:
Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.
Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com
ABOUT THE HOST:
Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.
On the business front, he’s been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he’s helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He’s twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.
While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world’s foremost experts on innovation. Josh
is the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he’s on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.
Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com
SPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:
Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books.
Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.
Learn more at: https://amplifypublishinggroup.com/
ABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:
From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees.
Learn more at: impacteleven.com
PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:
In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.
As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown’s processes to launch today’s most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits.
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Doug Manuel (00:00):
If you can achieve that in the next three months, we will send 20 bikes out to Senegal.
Josh Linkner (00:14):
Hey friends, Josh Linkner here. Delighted to bring you season three of Mic Drop, the number one podcast for professional speakers and thought leaders on the show. We connect with experts at the top of the field unpacking their success to help each of us grow and thrive from elevating your artistry to booking more gigs. Mic Drop is designed to give you the tools and insights you need to reach the next level. Together we'll accelerate the path to growth, success, and most importantly, impact
Maria Cairo (00:51):
The best keynotes start movements and incite change, and when you couple an electrifying speech with a project that fuels audience engagement, the result is lightning in a bottle. What I’m talking about here is a book. That’s where our friends at Amplify Publishing Group come in. With twenty-plus years of experience and helmed by some of the industry’s most renowned veterans, including bestselling author and global superstar Mel Robbins, the team at Amplify knows not only how to produce a fantastic book, but how to leverage that book and make it work for you, your brand, and your business.I’m an author, and I didn’t know the power of having a book until I published one! One of the greatest delights is connecting with my audience about the principles in my books. And Amplify not only knows books, they know this business. They know the world of keynote speaking and thought leadership, and have published CEOs, executives, they take positioning—and how the book will work for you—into consideration at every step of the way. Whether you have a one-line concept or a comprehensive outline, Amplify is ready to work with you. To schedule an exploratory call, visit amplifypublishing.com/micdrop now. MicDrop listeners will also receive an exclusive editorial one-pager tailored to their concept after their call. That’s amplifypublishing.com/micdrop.
Josh Linkner (01:39):
We're kicking off the new season of Mic Drop by giving the people exactly what they want. Not one, but two amazing guests who are about to inspire, enlighten, and entertain us all. Michelle Ann Johnson and Doug Manuel. Michelle Ann Johnson isn't just a consultant, she's a storytelling dynamo who's a master at empowering leaders from every walk of life to rock their high visibility presentations. Picture a globetrotting coach whose client list reads like a who's who of Fortune 500 glitz, AbbVie, American Express, and PepsiCo, just to name a few, but that's just one act of her show. Michelle also dazzles as a professional actor in Los Angeles, and she's done so for over two decades, lighting up screens and stages alike. She's the creative force behind an award-winning theater company, the brain behind rib tickling sketch comedy, and the star of her own one woman show. If you've ever flipped through some of the top TV shows like Friends NCIS or Modern Family, there's a good chance you've seen her in action.
(02:39):
We're also joined today by Doug Manuel once a BBC documentary producer focusing on African elephants. Doug's life changed forever as he experienced a West African drumming workshop. He left the BBC, studied music in West Africa, and then taught djembe workshops, which is a type of African drum, by the way, across England, targeting schools, prisons, and even refugee centers. Doug's conviction that corporations influence society more than politicians led him to learn how art could make corporations and the people within them more emotionally connected. So what did he do next? He created a stage show where the audience played drums together, exploring everything from humanity's African ancestry to the rhythm's impact on society. The show quickly gained traction, even reaching TEDx Hollywood and being featured on Oprah's Superstar Sessions. I think you've probably heard of Oprah right now based in Senegal with his non-profit. Doug focuses on fostering engagement and collaboration with unforgettable keynotes, blending his artistic journey with cultural insights. We're lucky to get to hear some of those today on Mic drop.
(03:51):
Doug and Michelle, welcome to Mic Drop.
Doug Manuel (03:53):
Thank you, Josh. It's great to be here with you today and great to meet you, Michelle.
Michelle Anne Johnson (03:57):
Yes, likewise. Thanks, Josh.
Josh Linkner (03:59):
Well, we're gonna have a lot of fun today, and especially because you, you have both such interesting backgrounds, not only in the speaking work that you're, you're doing, uh, but, but what led you to this point in time. So just as, as our listeners get to know you a little bit better, I'd love for you to give us a quick synopsis of, of your backstory. How did you arrive at this moment in time? Michelle, let's start with you.
Michelle Anne Johnson (04:17):
How much time you got Josh
(05:16):
Um, and so it, I did that for about about 10 years of kind of living that double life. And then I got to a point where, um, I call it my big time out, and this is for another, another show, but I, I just got to a place where I, I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do. It wasn't what I was currently doing. I didn't wanna do the acting anymore. I didn't wanna do the corporate managing anymore. And so I gave myself about five years to really figure out what I wanted to do, and that was the personal transformation work that I ended up doing. And so I got to a place where I was like, you know, I think I want to use my performing background, the personal transformation work that I was doing on, on the side. And, um, and I found a company that was doing that amazingly.
(06:01):
Um, so I started doing corporate trainings on leadership communication, but there was this personal development, personal transformation aspect of that. So I worked with that company as a program director for about, uh, three or four years. And then I went off on my own in 2018 and started my own consulting company. And, um, I started with presentation skills primarily 'cause that was what I was most familiar with. And then I started to really want to, I, I started figuring out what it was that I wanted to add to this conversation of presentation skills, because you guys know, it's, it's a really, really big topic. A lot of people are doing it. And I, I was really the most interested in this idea of presence because that was what people were asking me about. They weren't asking me about, you know, how do I use my hands?
(06:49):
Uh, they weren't asking me about my posture. They were asking me about how do I develop my presence? My boss tells me I really need to work on my presence. I really need to figure out this whole presence thing. And so I thought that that was just a really interesting, um, topic to dive into because nobody was defining what presence was. It's like charisma. It's like that X factor, what is it? And, but we know it when we see it. Um, and so I started doing some research and my intuition and my experience led me to this, uh, this hypothesis that what we see as presence on the outside executive presence, leadership presence is really a reflection of our sense of our own personal power. And that's all internal. And so for me, I started to figure out that personal power or what the building blocks of personal power were, authenticity, confidence, and purpose, that those three principles were really the building blocks of personal power. So I was like, aha, if I can teach people how to develop authenticity, confidence, and purpose, which are the building blocks of personal power, then they will start to express more presence on the outside. And so that's essentially what I've been doing for the last four years in my executive coaching, in my consulting with, with folks
Josh Linkner (08:16):
And now, and now doing keynote work. Well, well, Michelle, it's awesome. And certainly, uh, well, it's something hard to define. There's no question that you have an incredible presence from the first time I met you. And just, you can feel it. And, and there is, there are technical aspects of it, but there's also this just natural authentic underpinning that you, you have such a, a, a, a beautiful way about you. Um, so Doug, I'd love to hear about you too. You have some this fascinating background as well, very different. Um, tell us your backstory.
Doug Manuel (08:39):
Uh, so I was a documentary producer for the BBC for eight years. And the last two years I got to work on a film about African elephants. So I traveled all over the content continent to, to film these majestic animals. And, um, it was a, as I said, a, a double whammy introduction to Africa, more or less. At the same time, a friend said, come on a djembe workshop. The gemba djembe is the, the West African drum. And, uh, that touched me so deeply that day, uh, that I packed my job in at the BBC and took myself off to West Africa to study music. And, um, well, I initially came back to, to England, um, started running djembe workshops in schools and prisons and refugee centers. And, you know, always kind of with a belief that, that politicians don't run the world companies do.
(09:28):
Um, I felt that I had something that, that, um, that companies really needed. And at the time, there was an organization in London called Arts and Business, and they ran programs for artists to show them how that art form could be used in companies. Uh, so I followed a bunch of courses with them. I mean, just as an example, a rhythm is all based on feeling you can't think rhythm. Um, so all of a sudden that l leans into a whole piece around emotional intelligence. And, um, so it was, it was really interesting to break down as an artist exactly what I did and then how that could be transferred into, into companies. Um, in parallel to that, I I, I created a stage show where everybody, uh, everybody in the audience gets a a, a djembe. And we told the story of our shared ancestry that the fact that if you trace us all far enough back, we all come from Africa, uh, Africa being the mother continent.
(10:20):
And I mean, then, then the, the show explored the influence of the rhythms of the djembe and all the pop music that we listened to today. And, um, basically built that out and, and did 54 shows in Paris in 2014. And then there was the terrorist attack in France. So we had to close down the production in Europe. And a friend of mine said, well, how, how, if you wanna make it big in Europe, you have to make it big in the states. And I was like, oh gosh, do I really? So, um, found a way of doing a part of the show at TEDx Hollywood, and, and I really still today dunno how it happened, but Oprah heard about it. She sent a team that day, um, and ended up doing a, um, opening her third superstar sessions with, with a part of the show.
(11:00):
And, and then it basically, I I, I just realized that actually, uh, beyond the music, what I've been doing in Africa for the last 20 years, and I actually have a home in, in Senegal in West Africa, and a not-for-profit there as well. Uh, I wasn't just studying music, I was studying people. And it seems to me that today that engagement is at an all time low. Collaboration is at an all time low. And so my keynotes are basically all about how to foster engagement and collaboration and um, and really, really work on having a sense of belonging. So as with Michelle, the underpinning message of all of it is purpose. And then it's all about active listening awareness of ourselves. The more a aware we are of ourselves, the more aware we we can be of each other, and the more we aware we can be of each other, then we can create collective synergy together. So it's a three step program, um, that I lay out in my keynotes, but it's very interactive so that people have a, uh, I would say an embodied experience because then there's actionable learning that, that people can take away and put into action straight away. So it's kind of my story.
Josh Linkner (12:04):
Brilliant. And, and both, both of your stories are so inspiring. And I thing I love is, you know, there are some speakers and not, not saying it, it's disparaging way. The, the only thing they've done is they're a speaker. You both have done a incredibly rich tapestry of experiences and professions and, and contribution and, and you know, there's a notion of someone being a multi hyphenate. You're both like a multi, multi, multi hyphenate, which I really admire and appreciate. So I'd love to talk about this notion of being an artist and the way that art can come to life in, in different ways. Michelle, you've been an actor, obviously, that that's, that's one type of art. Doug, you're a musician and a, and a and a documentary filmmaker. So, um, how is, how is the notion of you being an artist informing all the work that you're doing as a keynote speaker? Michelle, maybe I'll start with you.
Michelle Anne Johnson (12:49):
You know, it's so interesting, Josh. I approach life as a piece of art. For me, being an artist is not separate from being a human being. I really feel like art is everywhere. Art is everything. We don't do art. We are art
(14:05):
Because I feel like so much, uh, in, in, in the corporate environment, it's like it's been, creativity has been leached out. Uh, the soul has been leached out, and people are so task oriented that they've, they've forgotten the, the joy in, in creating. And so, um, I really approach everything as a, as a work of art, whether it's an email, whether it, right now I, I'm designing my, a whole new wardrobe for myself as I, uh, start to become more active as a keynote speaker. That is a, that is a creative project for me. Everything is creativity. So, um, I guess it's, it's who I am. I, I am an an artist, and so that is going to bleed into everything that I do. It's gonna bleed into my perspective of how I approach, um, any task, any, any situation. It's, it's from a lens of creativity.
Josh Linkner (15:03):
Love it. And Doug, you, you not only use c use your art to inform the work that you do actually share your art on stage with, with, with drumming and such. But as you think about it more broadly, how, how, how, as an artist, how do you approach keno work and, and, and maintain the integrity of your art form?
Doug Manuel (15:18):
Well, I actually believe that, that, um, the, the perception of, of an artist, um, is that that person is creative. So I'm always blown away how, when I'm working with different musicians, how they come up with new musical phrases or, uh, they come up with something else to do with their voice if, if, if it's a singer. Um, but I actually believe that everybody has creativity. And to, to kind of echo what Michelle was saying, everyone is an artist. Everyone expresses their creativity in different ways. I, I, I think that there's, um, a lot of creativity in business, whether it comes through innovation or indeed a way that we communicate with somebody or, uh, anything that's spontaneous, um, that anyone does on in any given moment. Um, and that all comes from a level of creativity. And as I observe that in other people, um, it, it makes me realize actually, when it comes back to, to, to just being human. Um, it's about being resourceful and agile and, and, um, and creative in anything that we do, uh, to solve any problem that we actually might have. So, um, and I actually don't consider myself as that creative, interestingly, you know, if I look at some of the musicians that I work with and, um, yeah, some, some of the artists who I, who I have, you know, the amazing opportunity to work with, I feel like my creativity is quite, is quite small. So it, it, I think it's a question of perception, actually.
Josh Linkner (16:50):
Hmm. Well, I would challenge that based on the incredible work that you do and have done for, you know, many facets of life, you certainly very appear to be very creative to me. Um, but just a follow-up question on that, Doug. So you, um, I've struggled with this, you know, I'm a jazz musician. Yeah. And sometimes when I play jazz, that's very intricate and rewarding to me as an artist because it's complex and pushing the boundaries. It's sort of not as appealing to the audience. But then if I dumb it down to the audience and I can bend some strings and, you know, I know I'm gonna get a a rise outta the audience, then it's not rewarding to me as an artist. So there's this tension, like, you know, are, on the one hand, artists of all types, keynote speakers included, need to be, have a deep sense of empathy and service. You're there to, in the service of others, not, not just yourself and not an or. You also wanna maintain the integrity of your art. And so, I dunno if you've struggled with that, that tension at all, and how you navigate that. Are you, are you sort of playing to the audience of what's gonna be best for them? Are you also trying to, to maintain the integrity of your art form? Or how, how do you navigate that? Or have you thought about that?
Doug Manuel (17:42):
Um, so a number of years ago when we were performing the, the stage show that I created, um, I, I was on stage every single night that we did 54 shows in two and a half months. And so it was the same script every single night. Um, it was the same rhythms that we played every single night, but as the mc, um, I, I had to bring the audience with me. And so the energy that I had to put out, I had to really listen deeply to what was going on in the audience. And the energy that I put out in the audience to have them come with me was different every single night. So whilst we have the parameters of, of what we have to do, uh, every day, whether that be our daily work and, and, uh, you know, the processes that we have to, we have to adhere to in order to have our companies function, I think there's a level of energy.
(18:33):
It's the, i i, I hesitate to use the word energy 'cause that could be perceived as quite fluffy. Um, because it's, it's not that tangible necessarily for an engineer, but if you're thinking about leadership and how, how to bring people with you, the energy that you give to somebody is going to make a huge impact. And so I think it comes back to that whole notion that we're, we're having an impact in the world. Whatever we do all the time, there's no one and off switch. And it comes back to our awareness and, and what impact do we want to have? And, you know, are we communicating, are we informing, I think that there's all of the, are we smiling that there's all of these small differences that we can make, um, either from the stage as a keynote speaker, but actually, um, encourage people to do this in organizations so that they can actually change the culture of their companies. Um, and it's small things which all come back down to our own personal awareness that cost nothing, but that make a huge difference. So, I dunno if that answers the question on whether I went off at some tangent.
Josh Linkner (19:36):
No, I think it's great. And, you know, kind of building on that, Michelle, I had a question for you. You, you obviously have studied performance, uh, on, on camera, on stage, and everywhere in between. Uh, what do you think most keynote speakers get wrong? Uh, a a as you, you know, as a trained, uh, professional here, lot of times, you know, if the bar to entry is of course low, you, you got a PowerPoint, a microphone, hey, you're a keynote speaker, and not everyone though is as intentional as you and as experienced as you and really analyzing the craft. What, what do you think most keynote speakers get wrong when you, when you kind of put your performance expert lens on?
Michelle Anne Johnson (20:07):
Oh, that's such a great question. You know, I think, I think the answer that to that question follows what you and Doug were just talking about. And I think it really does come to intention. What am I really trying to do here? So if you go back to what you were saying, Josh, you know, if I'm a musician and, and, and there's my level of, of sensibility that I want to maintain, but then there's also the audience and what's that tension? I think for me as a performer, just coming from a performer, the performer lens, my intention is to entertain. And so I think sometimes keynote speakers can be so focused on message and communicating their ideas that they forget the entertainment piece. And entertainment for me is just in my blood. That there's a certain, there's a power to it. You know, when, when you have the attention of everybody in the room,
(21:06):
And I feel like there's a responsibility there too, um, to not bore people, to keep people engaged, to, to really elevate the experience so that people aren't just informed, they're also entertained. So that is always my intention. Yes, I wanna inform and I wanna give insight, and I want to, uh, share transformational ideas. And I want to get people to think very deeply and to think differently. But I'm also gonna entertain you. I'm gonna put in some bits, I'm gonna put in some jokes. I'm gonna use my, my physicality and I'm gonna, I'm just gonna do the whole thing. I really approach, um, my keynote as a one woman show. It's a show I'm putting on a show. And so I really think that, um, the more presenters and and speakers can have fun while they're doing it and kind of let go and, and leap into the abandon of, of performing. 'cause you said, you know, that's really what it is. It requires you to just kind of get outside yourself and get outside your, your insecurities and your ego and just go for it. You know? Um, I, I think, I think not only would speakers have a lot more fun, but I think their audiences would have a lot more fun as well.
Maria Cairo (22:26):
Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions while driving massive impact for audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow rot with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game.
(22:42):
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Josh Linkner (23:39):
It's such a great point because, um, you know, someone, if all you're doing is communicating information, a written book, more efficient than a 60 minute keynote, it just is, you know, you can reference it back, you can go reread, et cetera. But, but a keynote is something different. I mean, it's, it's communicating information certainly, but there's, there's, there's a performance aspect, an inspirational aspect as you point out. Um, one follow up question though, Michelle, do you think that, uh, people tend to overperform or run the risk of overperforming? One observation I've had in the last few years is that the keynote speakers of a decade or so ago were like these, uh, larger than life. And it felt like they were trying to hard, like they were trying to like over, like, they tell some, you know, fairly benign story. Like it was like, you know, it was like overly dramatic in these giant gestures and stuff. It felt like they were like using an announcer voice, but it really lacked authenticity. Ah, the way you and I are speaking right now is much more warm and and connected. Yes. And so how, how do you, how do you think about that? Like in terms of both a performing as you point out, entertaining, but also not overperforming to and running the risk of, of, of lacking authenticity or, or coming across as, as you know, too showy?
Michelle Anne Johnson (24:39):
Right. Well, I mean, there's good acting and there's bad acting
(25:33):
We're here not just to communicate the text, but the subtext. And so if speakers are only showing, but they're not really connected to the emotion or to the subtext of what they're communicating, then it is gonna come across as false. It's gonna come across as showy because it's not true. It's not real, it's not authentic. So there's that fine line between you wanna find the emotion because I think, I think all information has some emotion attached to it, right? E even if it's numbers as, as speakers, we have to communicate the meaning of the numbers and the meaning has the emotion. So it's really getting to the subtext and making that real for, for you. And then if you feel it, then you will communicate it in a more truthful way.
Josh Linkner (26:24):
So Well said, beautifully said. Um, Hey Doug. So we're kinda talking about, you know, how to be effective on stage at this point. And, and, you know, performance is such, and rhythm plays a real role in it. Obviously you help people understand the rhythm of life, the rhythm of business. How, how does rhythm impact your, your style of communication, even when you're not using drums, but you're, you know, just sort of sharing ideas with audience. How do you think about rhythm and how has rhythm influenced your own performance style?
Doug Manuel (26:47):
So I think everything works in rhythm, whether it be the seasons, whether it be our speech, um, there's a rhythm of life. We slow down probably when we're older. Everything works in rhythm. And actually all rhythm is, is a units of time at the foundation of, of what rhythm is. So we don't definitely don't need drums in order to, to work in rhythm. I mean, a lot of the, the interactive, um, keynotes that I, I do at the moment, there's an element of body percussion in there so that people can actually get a sense of what it is like to work together in rhythm. I think the key thing about rhythm, as I said earlier is, is you can't think rhythm. It has to be felt. And so if we're going to truly, truly work in rhythm, we have to bring everything to what we do. So not just the head, um, not just the heart. We need to bring our mind, body, emotions, spirits, so all of ourselves if we are really gonna work effectively in rhythm together. So I think it's about, comes back to what Michelle does actually. It's all about presence and bringing everything to what we do.
Josh Linkner (27:55):
Just a follow up question now, 'cause I'm just curious for fun, but have you ever, have you ever been with someone on stage and you ask 'em to come up and perform with you and they just like, don't have rhythm? I mean, what, what do you say to somebody who's like, I don't have any rhythm, or like way offbeat or something? How do you, what's the coaching guidance? Because there might be people listening that saying, I don't understand rhythm, I don't know what that means. Like how, how do you sort of help people better understand what rhythm is and the fact that we really all do have rhythm?
Doug Manuel (28:16):
So the most primal form of rhythm that exists is our heartbeat. So I would argue that everybody has rhythm. Um, a number of years ago, I, I did some work with some refugee children, and the way rhythm works in, in West Africa is it's repetitive. Um, and what I found was, was that some of these refugee kids couldn't do more than musically two or three bars of the same thing because it meant going into a place of real deep feeling and they, they didn't want to. So it was, it was, I would say revelatory, but everybody has rhythm. Everybody has rhythm. No one can say they don't have rhythm, otherwise they'd be dead. 'cause this, they have a heart inside them. So, um, and of course, rhythm is, you know, linked to the heart, which is linked to passion. So we can all find that. We can all find that.
Josh Linkner (29:05):
So well said. Ah, that's so much fun. So, um, Michelle, when you think about, you know, you've shifted, obviously you, you did a lot of acting work. You, you've, you've done a lot of business stuff too, which is very cool. You did done training and such. Now you, you're entering this new phase of keynote speaking. Um, what are, what are the things that so far in this newer chapter of yours have been the most rewarding, and what has been the most challenging,
Michelle Anne Johnson (29:28):
The most rewarding in terms of the keynote speaking? Oh, you know, it's, it's just about perf. It's, i, I, it's, I know people are gonna hear this and go, is a performance really Michelle
(30:33):
And that, I mean, that just never gets old. It's just, it's just what I live for
(31:28):
But there's the business side. And so just like when I was acting, it's very, very similar. You know, there is the game, um, there is the marketing aspect and the business side and, and, and all of that. That, that for me never was interesting to me. I was, I used to tell people all the time, I was a very unactive at actor. I was the most unactive actor you would ever, uh, 'cause I didn't, I wasn't going to the parties, I wasn't doing the networking. I wasn't doing all of that stuff. I really just wanted to perform. And so now that I'm moving into the speaking industry, which feels very similar to the acting industry, it's another, it's, it's, it's, it's a business. And so, um, that, that, you know, it's taking me some time to kind of get the gears grinding again,
(32:17):
But I think with where I am now, um, and because I really do, I think when I was an actor, I wasn't quite sure that this was really what I wanted be doing with my life. I loved performing, I loved acting, I loved being a creative, but I wasn't so sure that this was really who I was and what I wanted to be doing. Now, on the other side, being a keynote speaker, talking about what I wanna talk about, I know for sure that this is what I wanna be doing. And so I'm much more motivated to figure out the whole business side of things because I know that it is gonna support, um, me doing what I wanna be doing for this next phase of my life.
Josh Linkner (32:58):
That's so cool. I mean, when you're, when you're really pursuing your calling, there's just something, I mean, all, all the things get outta the way, you know, you just like, oh, there it is. It's just, that's awesome. I'm so happy for you, Michelle. Thank you. Um, and Doug, really same question for you. What, what are, what are, you know, in this phase, you've done a lot of cool things and now you're obviously rocking it out and, and speaking, what, what are, what are some of the more rewarding things and what are some of the more, uh, challenging, uh, things that you're, you're, uh, you're running into?
Doug Manuel (33:21):
Uh, I think the, well, certainly the biggest prize was, was, um, was that opportunity to perform with Oprah? That, that's for sure. Um, I think the most, the, the most challenging thing is some of the logistical things I get involved in with my, not-for-profit. So I'm constantly sending containers out to, to West Africa, um, with, with school material, medical equipment. Um, and it's just, it never ceases to surprise me how challenging that is in just from an administrative administrative perspective. Um, and it just shouldn't be that way because all at the end of the day I'm trying to do is to help. Um, and I think, again, I would go back to the not-for-profits as well. I just, one of my corporate clients just gave me, they, they, it was amazing actually. They, they gave a challenge to their 400, uh, strong staff. They said, if you do, uh, 100,000 kilometers, so what's that, uh, 60,000 miles either walking, uh, running or swimming.
(34:24):
Um, if you can achieve that in the next three months, we will send 20 bikes out to Senegal. Anyway, the, the, the client, um, or the team, actually within four and a half weeks, they'd done the a hundred thousand kilometers. Sure enough, they sent out, um, 20 bikes to the village, and I think it was one of the most rewarding moments I've ever had. But to be able to give five bikes to five orphans who have to walk three hours twice a day to get to school and back, and now can get to school in, you know, half an hour, 35 minutes, it was one of the most rewarding moments. And the, the, the best way that I know how to give back to, to Africa is through the keynotes that I'm giving. So, um, just, just to be in that kind of mini circular eco economy that I create through, through the keynotes, that, that for me is actually probably the most, the most rewarding is just giving. It's, it's just, it lights me up, really. So
Josh Linkner (35:26):
I'd love to double click on that for a second, Doug, because, you know, Michelle was talking about her calling and she's like really in high, high congruence with what you know, she's meant to be doing. And, and you too, like, you know, the idea that you're so drawn to giving and helping others, even that, that story you just recalled with the bike, it's just such a beautiful thing. I'm curious, you know, what, what's the driving force of of that sense of generosity and contribution and specifically to Africa? I understand that you went there, but you know, I've been to a lot of places and I didn't start like a nonprofit there. What, what is, what's calling your heart to do the work that you're doing in such a, such a generous and uplifting way?
Doug Manuel (35:57):
I would say, um, and I actually said this to, to Michelle just before you hopped on the call, but it, it feels kind of strange sometimes being, um, a white person with, with such an affinity to Africa. Um, and when I, when I talk about my not pro, not-for-profit with the work I'm doing, I'm not trying to save Africa. Africa saved me. Um, I was kind of this lonely kid and didn't really know what I was doing, didn't really know where, where I was going. And Africa, going back to the mother continent gave me a sense of belonging and taught me about community. And it really saved me. And so all I really want to do is my humble best to give back to a culture that has given me so much. So, um, I, I think it, I think it's about that as well.
(36:43):
And it, you know, if, if I then link that up to my purpose, I'm really clear that, that, um, I can do what I do in organizations and with my stage show, um, because what I really am is this bridge between the west and, and, and Africa. Um, and Africa holds so much. I mean, I'm making a documentary about, about rural Africa at the moment. And what's really interesting is that we have to relearn what we've forgotten is humanity. And it is Mother Africa and it's the mother continent. And the communities in indigenous, uh, rural Africa don't only survive, but they thrive through that sense of belonging and through community. Um, and I think that that's what the world needs more than anything else right now. So I'm kind of feel like I'm just merely this bridge between, between, between these two cultures.
Josh Linkner (37:36):
That's such a cool concept. And I'd love to actually, you know, end our conversation as sad as I'm to do that here today. 'cause I could chat with both of you forever and ever. It's just so, so uplifting and inspiring honestly. And I'm, I'm so grateful for your time today, but maybe I'd love to end with that, that question. I'll pose it to both of you. You said, Doug, what, what is something, what is something you, you, you need to relearn that you've forgotten? And that's such a cool concept, and I'm sure there's something like that in each of our heads, and maybe that's a good final thought, you know, to, to end with. And I'll ask each of you, Doug, maybe you start, what is something that you've forgotten that you need to, to relearn or that we as a community need to relearn to make the world a little bit better place or to, to continue to work on, on, uh, driving your calling forward?
Doug Manuel (38:13):
I think what we really need to relearn, and all of this comes to life in the documentary that I made or I'm making at the moment, is selfless service. Because there is that notion of being in service, but selfless service, uh, community and engagement. Those are the three things I would say that we need to relearn.
Josh Linkner (38:33):
So good. Michelle.
Michelle Anne Johnson (38:36):
I feel it all comes down to authenticity. And so I feel like we need to relearn who we really are before the world got in the way,
(39:34):
Um, you really are more connected to yourself. You're more connected to what's important to you, you're connected to your purpose. And then, like I said, you know, my, my my tagline that I've come up with Josh in the last month is do the work within to do your work in the world. And I really feel like, you know, that's, that's the whole shebang. If you do the work within to really understand who you are and what you can do and what you're all about, then it makes the work that you do in the world so much richer, so much pure, and so much more potent.
Josh Linkner (40:09):
What a beautiful place to end our conversation. Thank you both for helping us do the work within so that we can make the biggest possible impact, uh, in the outside world. Um, you're both, uh, beaming rays of light that are, are out there in, in the act of service and generosity and kindness to lift others up. And, and as a byproduct, I, I know that you both continue to enjoy, enjoy remarkable success in the keynote business. So Doug and Michelle, thank you, my friends, and look forward to seeing you out there in the crazy world of professional speaking.
Michelle Anne Johnson (40:33):
Great. Thanks Josh. Thank you so much. Great to be with you.
Josh Linkner (40:46):
And that's a wrap on today's episode. What an incredible journey we've been on with Michelle, the presentation maestro helping leaders stand in their power and our rhythm revolutionary, Doug, whose beats and wisdom have crossed continents from the heart of Africa to the corporate boardrooms and stages of the world. They've shown us how passion can lead to unexpected paths and how the arts can truly transform lives and businesses. I was particularly struck by the powerful self-awareness and inward exploration that both Michelle and Doug have gone through to get to where they are today. As Michelle puts it so beautifully, do the work within to do your work in the world. Let's build ourselves up to find purpose and make the biggest possible impact we can remember. Whether you're commending the stage or beating the drum of change, your story and rhythm can make a big impact in the world. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you stay inspired. Until our next episode, maybe all play the parts we were born to play and march to the beat of our own gem base. See you next time on Mic Drop. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
(42:08):
If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit mic drop podcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next mic drop moment.