Mic Drop

How Two Experienced Meeting Planners Hire Speakers (ft. Debbie Lipsky & Jason Callori)

Episode Summary

This week, we’re flipping the script on Mic Drop. Instead of interviewing one of the industry’s top speakers, we’re speaking instead to two of its top bookers and meeting planners. Join us as we hear the priceless perspective of two people responsible for making the call that brings a speaker to a stage.

Episode Notes

How Two Experienced Meeting Planners Hire Speakers (ft. Debbie Lipsky & Jason Callori)

Perspectives from two meeting planners who hire speakers daily

OPENING QUOTE:

“I think some people are a little more high maintenance than others. And, like, for the event, the conference I work on. It's a C-Suite client conference. Every single person in attendance, all our clients are our VIPs. As a speaker, you're coming in to present and provide education and thought leadership to them. So you're not supposed to be a VIP yourself.”

-Debbie Lipsky

GUEST BIO:

Debbie Lipsky has been running events and hiring speakers for over 20 years in her role at the financial services giant, SEI.

Jason Callori works for Cardinal Health, the 15th largest company in the United States with $162 billion in revenue. He's booked dozens of speakers and runs some of the largest and most elaborate conferences and events in the game.

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[7:51] - What Bookers Look for in Speakers

Straight from the source

What does Debbie want? Customization. In the world of TED talk videos available for free online, there’s no reason to book someone who’s giving the same talk at every event. She wants to receive a custom message, one that is tailored to that exact audience on that day.

As for Jason, he wants dynamism, magnetism, and stage presence. He calls it the ‘phone test.’ If he’s looking down at his phone within ten seconds of watching someone’s videos online, he knows they’re not the person for his event.

[11:04] - Bureau or No Bureau?

An answer to the classic question— what do bookers want?

Despite doing a lot of research on his own, Jason does work closely with speaker bureaus for the simple fact that it makes his life easier. Like Jason, Debbie pairs her own research with close bureau partnerships. Overall, 95% of her bookings come through bureaus.

[18:38] - New and Exciting or Tried and True

How do bookers decide which way to go?

Network matters. Proven success matters. But both Debbie and Jason assert that what it really comes down to is picking the right person, with the right message, for the right event. Sometimes that means going with someone who has a massive portfolio of previous talks, and sometimes it means going with a new upstart who doesn’t have many keynotes under their belt but who has otherwise demonstrated their value.

[27:57] - Setting the Volume Knob

Setting the right tone to attract attention

Do bookers want a rock concert-like atmosphere from their speaker, or a more substantive and information-driven approach? The simple answer: a happy medium. There needs to be a good takeaway and substance, but there also needs to be energy and fun along the way. Generally, that fun factor will need to be even higher when it comes to the opener and closer of a multi-day conference.

[32:11] - The Old Razzle Dazzle

Debbie and Jason reflect on what ‘wows’ them

If you ask Debbie and Jason, ‘dream’ speakers do the little things right. They have their slides locked in at least two days before the event. They take the time to know the business they’re speaking to— the audience’s roles and goals. They don’t just want to impress the higher ups, they want to create real impact for the employees themselves. If you want to get booked, nail all the little things.

RESOURCES:

[2:33] About SEI
[2:43] About Cardinal Health

Follow Debbie:

Follow Jason:

Follow Josh:

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Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by ImpactEleven.

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Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

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Episode Transcription

Debbie Lipsky:

I think some people are a little more high maintenance than others. And, like, for the event, the conference I work on. It's a C-Suite client conference. Every single person in attendance, all our clients are our VIPs. As a speaker, you're coming in to present and provide education and thought leadership to them. So you're not supposed to be a VIP yourself.

Josh Linkner:

Welcome to Mic Drop the podcast for professional speakers. We cover the ins and outs of the business, helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages at higher feeds. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by E-Speakers. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Get ready for some inspiring mic drop moments together.

Josh Linkner:

Today's show is sponsored by Impact 11, formerly known as Three Ring Circus, the best and most diverse and inclusive community, built for training and developing professional speakers. They're not just elevating an industry we know and love, they work with hundreds of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. To learn more and schedule a free intro call, visit Impact Eleven.com. That's Impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com.

Josh Linkner:

Mic Drop is produced and presented by E-Speakers. If you want more audiences and organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use E-Speakers to manage and grow their business. When you use E-Speakers, you'll feel confident about your business, package yourself up for success and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30 day trial visit ESpeakers.com/micdrop. That's ESpeakers.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

On today's episode of Mic Drop, we flip things upside down. Instead of interviewing a successful speaker, we get to hear the perspective of the meeting planner that hires speakers. Actually two of them. To be precise, you'll meet Debbie Lipsky of financial services giant, SEI. She's been running events and hiring speakers for over 20 years. Also, joining me today is Jason Callori from Cardinal Health, the 15th largest company in the United States with 162 billion in revenue, and that's some cheese to hire speakers. He's booked dozens of speakers and runs some of the largest and most elaborate conferences and events. I know this firsthand since I just delivered a keynote for Jason where he had me speak in a room set for 9,000 people that felt more like a rock stadium than a meeting space.

Josh Linkner:

Today you'll get a peek behind the curtain of how meeting planners hire speakers, what they look for, what lights them up, and frankly what pisses them off. All those questions you've always wanted to ask, such as, does customization really matter? What makes a speaker really stand out in a planner's mind? Why do planners use bureaus and why do some preferred direct bookings? How do meeting professionals value entertainment value versus substance and experience? How are decisions made and who's involved in them? And how is the circuit changing as we emerge from COVID and lead into uncertainty? Get ready for an inside look into the speaking industry directly from two meeting professionals that are in the business of hiring speakers.

Josh Linkner:

Debbie and Jason, welcome to Mic Drop.

Debbie Lipsky:

Hello.

Jason Callori:

Thanks Josh.

Josh Linkner:

Delighted to have you both on. And today's a very special edition of Mic Drop because we have the honor of speaking to you who are in the business of booking other speakers. And so unlike some previous episodes where we've had bureau executives on and very notable speakers, today's a special treat because we have two professionals, meeting professionals, that are in the business of booking speakers and have had a long history and doing so. We're going to get right into the insights and what they think of as they book their next speaker. So to start though, I'd love to hear a little bit about you, your business, your background, how long you've been booking speakers? And Debbie, maybe I'll start with you if you can give us a little bit of insight on your role and how it relates to the professional speaking industry.

Debbie Lipsky:

Okay, thanks Josh. As Josh said, I'm Debbie Lipski. I work for SEI, and we're a financial services slash fin-tech company located ... Our headquarters is outside Philadelphia. I've been with SEI and I'm on the events and experience team. I'm a manager on the team for over 20 years now. I've been planning meetings and events my entire career, so way over 20 years, and been booking speakers pretty much since the beginning back in ... I'm really going to date myself, the old slide protector days. So I've seen a lot of changes and a lot more, and I think everything has definitely changed again since 2020 in the pandemic and the virtual experiences that we've been doing. So that's me.

Josh Linkner:

Wonderful, thank you. And just to give us a sense, in this coming year, how many speaking engagements will you likely book?

Debbie Lipsky:

Okay, as an organization, I would say we're probably booking at least 20 overall, probably more. I work on a conference, a client conference, which we haven't held in three years, so that will be in March. And we're all a thought leadership piece, so it's all external speakers, so we're looking at booking that out right now soon.

Josh Linkner:

Fantastic. Thank you. And turning over, Jason, to you, same question. Can you give us a little bit about what you do, your background and how long you've been booking speakers?

Jason Callori:

Sure. My name is Jason Callori. I work for Cardinal Health right now. I've been in the pharmaceutical distribution business since my career began, honestly, since 1999, which is crazy. I worked at a ... While it was privately owned, it was still considered a big company, but it was a privately owned pharmaceutical distributor called Kinray. And through working for them, I got very close with the owner of that company and I got to meet a lot of different celebrities and booking acts and setting up different performances and speakers on that side. And then when I got transitioned, Cardinal Health purchased Kinray, I think back in 2014, something like that. 2013, 2014, I got moved over to the Cardinal side and Cardinal puts on this retail business conference called RBC and they kind of put me in task of finding speakers and entertainers and different people to make the show each and every year special. I do the branding, the marketing, I do a lot of the content and all the different things that go into making a successful show each and every year. And I've been doing that since 2014.

Josh Linkner:

And in a typical RBC event, how many speakers do you book? Because I know they're sort of the main stage and there's some offshoot stuff. How many people are you booking on a typical basis?

Jason Callori:

In the beginning, when I first started, we were really just doing about two speakers, but now it's become, the last couple years been doing three total. So it'll be anywhere from six to nine. I also do some speaking bookings for the sales side just for them specifically throughout the year as well. So in a typical year could be anywhere from six to nine speakers.

Josh Linkner:

Okay, great. So the point is that both of you are experienced, you've made speaking decisions, you've advised your company in doing so. It's cool because we have two different industries, financial services and healthcare, two of the largest industries that book professional speakers. So great, thanks for the context. Let's continue on. So Debbie, I'm curious to hear your perspective on ... Obviously sometimes there's a topic area that you're looking for future of work or innovation or customer service. But putting the topic aside, what are some of the characteristics that you look for when you're looking to book a great speaker?

Debbie Lipsky:

I would say when we're looking, and I'm looking in particular, we want someone that is going to customize it to some degree that it's not ... Especially now with everyone being able to look at things online and YouTube and all these videos and TED talks out there, we don't want them to just dial it in. We want it to be as our clients or employees, because we do have speakers for employees as well, to have an experience, a unique experience that they're not going to get somewhere else because that's what makes us stand out and be different. So I think that's what we look for. And I think especially during, when we were doing a lot of virtual events the past couple years, we kind of pivoted and did more fireside chat things because internally we felt when we had conversations we're like, "Anyone could tune in and hear Angela Duckworth giving her TED talk."

Debbie Lipsky:

They can find her talk anywhere and listen to it. I mean, she's going to change it up a little bit, but when can one of our employees say, "You know what? We were able to hear Angela about us, talk to us and answer questions." So I think that we learned to move that way. And it'll be interesting to see as we go back to live events, what speakers are doing and how they're making it more customizable. Because we know it's hard, it's not easy for you guys to customize everything.

Josh Linkner:

Well that's a great point. And by the way, I'm a huge Angela Duckworth fan, so I'm glad you brought her up. She's awesome.

Debbie Lipsky:

She is awesome. She was a great one.

Josh Linkner:

Jason, what about you as you're looking to hire speakers? Putting topical expertise aside, what are some of the inherent characteristics that are most important to you when making a speaking decision?

Jason Callori:

I'm looking for a specific dynamism, magnetism that the speaker has in their presence on stage. I kind of call it the phone test. Generally if I'm scouting some speakers, I will take a look at some of their reels, I'll look up their TED Talk, whatever it may be. And after 10 seconds, if I'm looking down on my phone, I know that's not the person for me. If after 10 seconds and I'm watching it and I'm still engaged, I know if I'm engaged, because it's very hard for me. I'm kind of all over the place, and not that I get distracted very easily, but I just tend to always do a million things at once when I probably shouldn't be. But if I could be engaged for those 10 seconds and beyond, I know if he's got me, if he or she has me as a speaker, then they most likely have my audience. and that's what I look for.

Josh Linkner:

I love that. And likewise. If you're distracted after 10 seconds and not dialed in, you don't want your audience feeling that way. So you need somebody that can hold the room, that can capture their attention, that can drive energy and inspiration.

Josh Linkner:

Makes a ton of sense. Jason, staying with you for a second. To what extent do you work with speaker bureaus when making a decision or try to seek independent? Just to be clear, I don't have a bias either way. I work with all the speaker, I love speaker bureaus, so it's not a bias question. I'm just curious as you think about that, do you do a combination of both? Do you exclusively work with bureaus? How does that work as you approach the work?

Jason Callori:

For me, just to make things easier, I do use a speaker bureau, but I do a lot of research on my own just throughout the year before it's time to book those speakers. And there have been instances where a speaker has not been available through that bureau, but they'll graciously connect me with the bureau that is, or the person that is responsible for that speaker. For example, we had Colin Powell not too long ago before he passed away obviously in '20, back in 2016 in Chicago. And he was kind of a, I wouldn't say a last minute get, but he was someone that was on our radar and our main speaker couldn't perform, they couldn't come.

Jason Callori:

And about maybe a month or so before we were able to get Colin Powell and we couldn't go through our regular bureau so they connected us with someone else. But I do a lot of research just to see who's out there, who are the top speakers, who's kind of caught my attention throughout the year before I'm ready to book. And generally I can use the bureau that I use, but I do like to do a lot of research on my own.

Josh Linkner:

Makes sense. And Debbie, what about you? How do you go about sourcing speakers?

Debbie Lipsky:

I would say like Jason, we do a lot of research on our own and then I would say 95% of the time we work through a bureau and it's a very slim 5% or lower that we don't. And I think there's much to be said for a bureau. We've had instances where a speaker got ill and couldn't perform and different things. Or present, not perform. There's many advantages to working through the bureau instead of going direct.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And not only as an insurance policy, but one of the hard parts is differentiating quality. You look at every speaker's website and they have quotes like, "This person hits it out of the park every time. They're the greatest." And no one's going to put a bad quote on their site.

Debbie Lipsky:

No.

Josh Linkner:

So you as a buyer, how do you discern that? So staying with you, Debbie, could you maybe dig in a little bit more around the decision making process? Presumably you start with a long list. You maybe narrow it down to a shorter list. And then how do you and your team make that decision who's involved? How do you ultimately decide?

Debbie Lipsky:

I would say for us, we make suggestions and we also do a lot of the research behind the scenes. And we'll also, through industry events, hear different speakers and recommend different speakers to, and we call them our internal clients. So internally, the people that we work with on who put together the content or if it's for an internal thing, they'll come to us with a topic and we'll go out and research it and come back and present a bunch of ideas. And we try to, as best we can, keep pricing out of it, because we want them to look at the content and what the speaker has and what they can deliver and what's going to make it be a good experience.

Debbie Lipsky:

So that's how we do it. It's a lot. And like you said, all the websites are the same, but it's really like, and Jason said it too, we're digging in and we're looking that the videos. And do they capture our attention? Because I think much like Jason, I too suffer from picking up my phone and looking at things. How are people going to be? And how do you keep people today engaged through things?

Josh Linkner:

[inaudible 00:14:39] said that in real estate, the three most important things are location, location, location, and in professional speaking, the three most important things are video, video, and video, because you're right, how do you really know? Can't tell from a testimonial. Jason, maybe you could elaborate on that, and also maybe again, talk us through a little bit about how you ultimately present ideas and how the decision is eventually made.

Jason Callori:

Yeah, for our event, RBC, it's a funny animal because it really, and I hate to bring up budget, but it really does for me, budget is a main driver of where and where I can't look. Because there have been instances where we've been able to get some pretty big names, some big sports names. We had Michael J. Fox one year. We had Magic Johnson one year. And while some folks may not view them as a typical speaker, generally they could command high price tags. But if they could talk, I look at it as this is who I'm looking at. This is who we can supposedly get with our budget.

Jason Callori:

But generally with the speakers, I pretty much have the great command of being able to present who I think would fit the audience and would also fit the message that we're trying to portray. And I'm sure Debbie deals with this, too. The messaging for your company, your enterprise can shift from month to month, year to year, so you have to find a speaker that shifts and falls under that umbrella. So while I'm doing my research, I make those talking points in my head and I'll present them out. And so far, I've been entrusted with finding the right speakers for each and every event.

Jason Callori:

Yes, they do have to get approved budget wise, but I'd like to think that I have some really great skills in finding someone that are a good speaker that will fit the event perfectly, just like you, Josh.

Josh Linkner:

Well, I'm grateful for that. And for those listening, I was lucky enough to work with and for Jason recently at his RBC conference in Las Vegas. And this is an unbelievable conference, like 9,000 people in this beautiful stadium. It is spectacular. This is not some dumpy ballroom with fluorescent lighting. This is the main show. And this is the stage and the venue and the opportunity that we speakers really crave. So it was a great honor. But building on that, Jason, can you talk about the weight of this decision? I don't think many people understand this, because let's say someone is spending $35,000 on a speaker or 50 or whatever the number is.

Josh Linkner:

The importance of that decision transcends the dollar value. In other words, someone might be entrusted with ordering $50,000 of office supplies. Nobody has to double check it. But if you're in front of 9,000 customers and your CEO is there and the media's there, the importance is completely different. Even though the cost of the speech is expensive, the importance might be tenfold or a hundredfold more than that. How much pressure, Jason, is on you to get it right? How important is that decision?

Jason Callori:

I mean, for me personally, I put a lot of pressure on myself to make sure that each speaker, every single year can outdo the one before it, or just the whole menu of speakers that I may or may not have. You're always trying to better yourself each and every year. And while that may not happen each and every year, because the message can be a little bit different, my pressure is listening to the audience after it's done. I go talk to the pharmacist. What'd you think? And if they're impressed, if they got a lot of resonance from it, if they were impacted, then I know I did my job. And normally, nine times out of 10 when that happens, I know that upper management and my team are all happy with the decision I made. But yeah, I do put a lot of pressure on myself, for sure.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. And Debbie, I'd love to hear your thoughts, too. The part of it that's difficult is not just, again, the cost, but the impact. So if you're in front of key customers, essentially that speaker is a reflection of you and your company. And so if that speaker comes and says something inappropriate or says something that's misaligned with your philosophy, that could really reflect poorly on you and the organization. So could you maybe speak to what it's like in your mind as you're processing risk/reward? Do I go with some new, unproven speaker? Do I go with something more safe? How does risk and the stakes being so high, how does that weigh into your decision process?

Debbie Lipsky:

First of all, I agree with what Jason said. I lose sleep over it sometimes [inaudible 00:19:20]. But I would say risk, I think we try to vet them really well. I think through the years, we've had some misses on some people, and you kind of know. But I think overall is where they fit in the agenda of the conference, it's we're more critical of it than our clients are or our audience is. So I think we're our own worst critics. And I think having done a lot of virtual lately, virtual, there's so much data available readily.

Debbie Lipsky:

You know how long your people are on for. You know how many people are logged in. You can test engagement right away, whereas in a live audience, you've got to go out and talk to them or you've got to wait until you get the surveys back and get the feedback that way. So I think you take some risk, but we also level them out. And I think prep calls with your speakers are really important. I think they're critical and I think the more engaged as a speaker you are in and prepared, it's a two way street. We need to send our information to you and get you guys prepared as a presenter or speaker, but you also need to read what we send you and know your audience and know who you're talking to, because it's two ways. Because I think it's a small industry and we all know who you know and word of mouth and that type of thing.

Jason Callori:

Yeah. I'd like to piggyback on Debbie's point there. I think it's very important for us for folks that book speakers, when we connect with the actual speaker and giving that background to not only the event, but the company behind it, by what the temperature of the audience is. I think all that factors in for, I guess, just makes us feel a little bit better when we're booking speakers because I think it just gives us a little bit of relief that, okay, this guy or this woman, they are dialed in. They know what we want. They're listening to us. And we feel like they're going to deliver a better performance.

Debbie Lipsky:

And I also think, to go on to what Jason said, is just the pure fact of knowing who the audience is. Is it their clients? Or is it their employees? Just the clear differential there, because sometimes, that can just even set up the wrong messaging.

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Josh Linkner:

That's exactly right. And Deb, you've said that you've made some great decisions over the years and maybe some ones that didn't turn out the way you'd hoped. Without of course not naming any names, but what are some things that speakers have done that have worked for you that you just said to yourself, "I'm not going to ever book that person again." Not that you'd go blackball them, but just, you had said, "You know what, that's just not okay for me." And again, no names, but just so we can learn from those misses.

Debbie Lipsky:

I think, some people are a little more high maintenance than others. And for the conference I work on, it's a C-suite client conference. Every single person in attendance, all our clients are VIPs. As a speaker, you're coming in to present and provide education and thought leadership to them. So you're not supposed to be a VIP in yourself is what I mean. Come in and show up. You know what I mean? Be on time, do all that. Don't cause extra stress to the planners on the side. Because know that in addition to the business session, we've got a million other things going through our head and taking care of. So that's just what it is. So I think sometimes we've had some come in that have been a little more high maintenance than others. And there was no reason for them to be. And it's just how they treated myself and my staff, my team.

Josh Linkner:

What about you, Jason? Any experiences that you can remember? Again, not throwing any names under the bus, but just that we can learn from some things that have backfired perhaps for that speaker.

Jason Callori:

Yeah, complete probably carbon copy of what Debbie experienced. We booked a speaker that was a very high price tag, and the way they treated the staff, and not just the staff on site, but everything from transportation, picking them up at the airport, getting them to the venue, even outward appearance. I mean, they showed up and it looked like they literally just woke up. And I didn't want to say, "Are you going to get changed, or is this how you're hitting the stage? Do you need makeup?" I didn't want to sound like a jerk, but honestly, between the person, what I was hearing as far as attitude-wise, then getting on site and then getting on stage, it just fell flat.

Jason Callori:

And I think when that happens... Listen, you can kind of have that attitude in your personal life, whatever you want to do, but when it comes to being on stage, and you know it's an audience that wants to see you and wants to experience that with you and just go through such an amazing event, and when you have that happen, it really soured the entire experience.

Debbie Lipsky:

To tag onto that, a lot of times they are your higher priced speakers and it's almost like they don't want to do it. They're just kind of doing it to do it. So it's kind of like just say no and we'll find someone else who wants to be there. It's almost that type of feeling. And I agree with what Jason said, similar experience. And it's a name so people want the person. If they only knew what went on behind the scenes, it would be, yeah.

Josh Linkner:

Well that's a perfect segue. Because Jason, you mentioned that you booked some celebrities in the past. And my essential question is to celebrity or not to celebrity? On the one hand, if it's someone very well-known that could get people to attend the conference, everyone's very excited. On the other hand, Debbie, to your point, maybe they don't care as much. Maybe they're going to mail it in. Maybe they're not going to be really a professional grade speaker even. So they're well-known, but perhaps not as good on stage. I've heard that before. I'm certainly not a celebrity, but I've heard feedback scores. A client will say, "Hey, you were five times better than this other person who probably made five times more than you, but they were a celebrity and you're not."

Josh Linkner:

So Jason, I'll start with you. To celebrity or not to celebrity? How do you make that decision when selecting a speaker?

Jason Callori:

I'll give you the perfect example of speaker celebrity combination. And that was Magic Johnson. Why? Because not only is he a legendary basketball player, but he also has a very deep, rich business acumen. And for us, he was the perfect combination of ooh, aah from the audience perspective, but he was able to resonate with small business owners from our audience in order to connect with them.

Jason Callori:

So I think that's where you have to find the right combination. It's great to just have a name, but if they don't have any substance of anything that they could connect with our audience about, then you might as well just throw them on the show floor in a corner signing autographs if they have nothing to say that resonates with the audience.

Jason Callori:

So that's been my philosophy since I had that past experience is that if I'm going to get a big name and pay a lot of money, they have to have the right combination of substance and name.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, it's such a great point. So Debbie, speaking to that, there's a question I'm excited to ask you. I want you think about a volume knob, scale from one to 10, but instead of it being volume, think about a one as substance. So that's like rich business takeaway substance, but not a lot of fun. Put it on a 10 and a 10 is like a rock concert, tons of fun, really entertaining and energizing, but not a lot of substance. I know it's different for different scenarios, different events, et cetera, but where do you like to see that volume knob set when you're looking at speakers?

Debbie Lipsky:

Oh, that's a tough question.

Jason Callori:

Yeah, that's a good question, actually. Yeah.

Debbie Lipsky:

I think when we're constructing the agenda and looking at it, so this is for a day and a half conference that I'm talking about. Individual standalone, I think it needs to be a happy medium. So if it's just they're just coming on to do, it's just the keynote thing and that's it, it needs to be that happy medium. There needs to be good takeaway and substance, and they need to have energy and be fun. The fun factor is always good. If it's for a multi-day thing, we like to go with the sandwich effect. So we always like to start strong, put your meat in the middle and end strong, a good takeaway.

Debbie Lipsky:

So I think your opener and your closer need to have the fun factor. They need to have substance, but they also need high energy. And then if you were in the middle, you could be more on the lower end of your knob and higher the other way, I guess.

Josh Linkner:

Well said.

Debbie Lipsky:

That's a tough question.

Josh Linkner:

I didn't mean to throw you or anything. So Jason, same question to you. On those two dimensions, for energizing on one side, actionable substantive on the other side, what's optimal for you?

Jason Callori:

I mean, for me, listen, if I already picked you, if I already picked that person that's going to do it and you held my attention, generally I would say that person's probably at a six or a seven on that knob where they have a lot of substance, they have a lot of style, a lot of showmanship, but then all of a sudden you're kind of hit with all this substance and these great takeaways. That's where I kind of like it for myself. But again, to Debbie's point, when you're looking at different sections of the show, different sections of your conference throughout the week, I think there's times for more style, little less substance, and then vice versa.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, exactly right. So Debbie, historically in the speaking industry, unfortunately, it's been a lot of middle-aged white dudes like me. And you look at these agendas. I was amazed for you speaking to conference, "Hey, look at our nine speakers. Oh good news. They're all middle-aged white dudes."

Josh Linkner:

That has changed. And I'm glad that that's changed. It's the right thing to change. How important is it today, and when you're making decisions, you're not going to only do it based on this, but how important is it to you to have a program that's representative, that's got more diversity, equity and inclusion?

Debbie Lipsky:

I think it's critical. It's business critical these days, especially now. I know as an organization, we look at it more critically, and I think overall our clients are looking at us to do it and we should be putting the talent on the stage that's more representative what our workforce should be looking like. So yeah.

Josh Linkner:

I'm so glad to hear you say that too, because we work with many emerging speakers, and many people say, "Oh, but am I going to hit a glass ceiling?" And I think that probably was true in the past, unfortunately, but I think today it's to a degree, the opposite. I think that there's a real advantage and that there's not a barrier at this point for people who are a more diverse subset of our society.

Jason Callori:

I agree. I think it's absolutely mission critical for organizations to add some diversity, not only to their own organizations, of course, but to events. So whether you could bring a mix of diversities, a mix of male, female, whatever it may be. And honestly, I've seen that shift in the last, I don't know, maybe seven, eight years where the more diverse speakers are the ones that are actually bringing different ideas and different ways to communicate to the audiences. And I think that's what's really resonating.

Debbie Lipsky:

And I think Josh, the fact that you even ask about it and you're realizing the shift, is great, because you know it, so it's good to hear.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. I think it's such an important thing. And totally supportive of it, even to my own detriment. I think it's just the right thing to do for our craft and our profession. So I think it's terrific.

Josh Linkner:

So we're getting toward the end of our conversation. I wish we could talk all day. Just a couple more questions for you though. Debbie, has there ever been a scenario where you just like, "Man, I just love this one speaker." You could say their name or no, it's up to you. But sort of the opposite question of where I asked earlier where what's someone done that's bad. What has someone done that's really delighted you or dazzled you or said, "I want to recommend this person to everybody." Maybe you can share a little bit about what those characteristics might be.

Debbie Lipsky:

Okay. So there have been a few, but one in particular, you know him very well, Josh, we've used him a few times, a bunch of times, and he always makes time. So even when we put his name out there, but we're not sure, and there's various topics that he can cover, he or she can cover, he gets on the phone and he'll have calls with us, with me, with my internal clients, with those who we can talk it through and figure out what the content's going to be.

Debbie Lipsky:

... my internal clients with those who we can talk it through and figure out what the content's going to be, even before we book them or think it. So I think that, and you don't get that. We know schedules are busy and usually it's just once the booking's confirmed, do we get the prep call, but that really helps shape it. And I think the more you understand our company and our culture and what we're trying to deliver and our audience, really helps us want to work with you and how easy you are to work with.

Debbie Lipsky:

On the flip side in virtual, we made it clear, we need your slides 40 hours in advance. You can't do last minute changes. And as good as some speakers that we had are, and they're probably excellent live, it's not the same thing. You can't show up five minutes before and tell us, you have updates to your slide. It's not going to happen. So I think understanding the technology shift that we all incurred, I think that helps, but I think going back to the live is going to help too. So I think just knowing, being aware of the environment, virtual or live and being aware of who you're working for and what their challenge is and what their industry is and that kind of thing.

Josh Linkner:

So good. Jason, same question to you. What does a dream speaker do?

Jason Callori:

Man, I think Debbie kind of covered everything. I think a dream speaker for me takes the time to not only know the business, but I want a speaker that wants to know the audience and what they're going through, what the challenges are, what the goals are. If a speaker could take the time to just ask about that and talk through it and go through... We talked earlier about how you've seen one TED Talk of a specific speaker, and you could probably find somewhat of a similar video throughout YouTube or whatever it may be, but when they're willing to take that content and shift it to a specific audience and are willing to do that, not only just one time before the event, but they're willing to talk about it throughout, leading up to the event, that's what I look for in a speaker, because then I know you're going to take it seriously and I know you're about to do a great performance for our audience. It's really someone who not only cares about impressing the higher ups, but they care about the audience even more so.

Debbie Lipsky:

Oh, I have two more things to add, if that's okay.

Josh Linkner:

Please. Yeah.

Debbie Lipsky:

I would say one other thing that I think is great that speakers always ask on the prep calls is, how do you want your audience leaving? How do you want them to feel when they leave? That's an excellent question. And then, two, I think being on time for the day of show and then hanging around after. Don't book yourself that you have to hop on a flight. Being around, engaging with the audience if people still have questions, even if it's just 20 extra minutes, that goes a long way. Because a lot of times people don't feel comfortable asking the question in front of the whole audience and want to just come up and talk to you one on one. And I think the more engaged speakers can be that way goes a long way for us looking at it, being like... Because we're going to get good reviews and we're going to be like, you know what? We're going to go and we'll book you again or we'll try to use you again. So I think all that helps too.

Jason Callori:

And, Josh, you had mentioned performing at RBC in Vegas, not that long ago with us. One of the things that we all appreciated that you did was asking, what are some things that you want the audience to leave with, like what Debbie said. I was like, give them some tactical, give them some actual takeaway things that they can do as soon as they get out of their seat. And I think stuff like that is what really resonates. Even after the show, I was talking to some of the audience members and some of the pharmacists that, what'd you think of Josh? What'd you think of the whole program? And they were like, "Yeah, I wrote down like four or five... I wrote down..." He was taking pictures of every single slide you were putting up there. So definitely stuff like that, it may not seem like a big deal to speakers because you guys are probably doing it so often in your program to do it, but some of that stuff makes a big difference.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. Thanks for saying that. Personally and I think, to me, if I were to summarize the comments from both of you, it's that being a speaker is not an act of self-congratulatory arrogance. It's an act of service. A great speech is not about the speaker. It's about the audience and the impact that you're making on others. It's an act of service and your generosity. And so when people frame their mindset and their approach to how can I make the most impact and how can I soak up the most spotlight, that's a real step in the right direction.

Josh Linkner:

I've just adored this conversation and we could go on all day, but I want to be respectful of your time. I just want to ask one final question to both of you, Jason, I'll start with you and, Debbie, I'll give you the last word, but what's one piece of advice that you would give to a newer speaker that is passionate about the craft, they're doing the right things, they want to leave the biggest possible impact, their heart's in the right spot? What's a piece of advice that you might offer as someone who hires speakers that they could learn from and carry forward. Jason?

Jason Callori:

I would tell them to know your audience, know your audience, always be humble, and make sure that... You got to remember, when a speaker walks out on the stage, the audience already is... We live in a pretty, I guess, pessimistic society these days. So when a speaker walks on stage, probably most of them are already thinking, okay, what's this person going to teach me? What has this person got for me? That's the moment when that speaker has to be able to bring something to the table where they're going to make that audience... Like I said before, put the phone down, engage the audience, but also know your audience. Know every little detail about them before you hit that stage, because it's just going to make you that much more memorable and it's going to make that audience just want more. And if the audience wants more, that means other organizations are going to want more, which means you get to make some more money.

Josh Linkner:

Love it, know thy audience. Perfect. And Debbie?

Debbie Lipsky:

I agree with what Jason said, know the audience. I think being humble. I also think having some kind of unique something to your presentation so you stand out is always good. And I would also say practice, like rehearse and be comfortable being on stage in front of an audience and knowing that. And it doesn't hurt. Practice makes perfect. And I also think be human. Like human, you make mistakes. It's okay. We're forgivable, but practice as much as you can too.

Jason Callori:

Yeah, I think storytelling's a big part of it too. I think storytelling is probably the number one thing that a speaker does and it's kind of wrapping all your information, all the content into that story. And I think those who are great at storytelling can always resonate.

Debbie Lipsky:

And storytelling, I feel like makes things relatable to your audience too, in a way.

Josh Linkner:

No question. Well, we'll unfortunately have to end our story here today. But Debbie and Jason, this is such a treat for me and for audience who like to hear from two people at the top of the field and getting your perspective on how you interact with, hire, and engaged speakers. Thank you so much. Wishing you both continued success and thanks for joining me again on Mic Drop.

Jason Callori:

Thanks for having me, Josh.

Debbie Lipsky:

Yep. Thank you.

Josh Linkner:

That was a really fun conversation hearing directly from the highly-coveted meeting professionals that hire speakers. A few key takeaways from my conversation with Debbie and Jason.

Josh Linkner:

Number one, the most successful speakers take the time to really understand the needs and nuances of their hosts, delivering a highly customized and relevant performance. Gone are the days of canned speeches.

Josh Linkner:

Number two, meeting professionals crave a mixture of inspiration and business value. They want us to inspire their audience and give them practical takeaways. Over index on one and you're speaking business could suffer.

Josh Linkner:

And number three, a great keynote speaker is a mix of things: part storyteller, part expert, part listener, part humble servant. For those with a compelling message that are willing to really deliver value, the sky is the limit.

Josh Linkner:

A huge thanks to Debbie and Jason for joining me today and for continuing to demonstrate leadership in our field. Thanks for your candor, guidance and perspective. And to my fellow speakers, let's return the favor by delivering extraordinary value to Jason, Debbie and the entire meeting professional industry one Mic Drop moment at a time.

Josh Linkner:

Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends and don't forget to give us a five-star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers and a big thanks to our sponsor, IMPACT 11. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks for listening and here's to your Mic Drop moment.