Mic Drop

Insights from the World’s Largest Bureau (ft. Ryan Heil)

Episode Summary

This week on Mic Drop, Washington Speakers Bureau president Ryan Heil joins us to cover a range of topics, all from the perspective of the person in charge of writing the next chapter of WSB's story. We discuss how to embrace the future of the speaking industry without losing sight of the past, how a bureau like WSB keeps things fresh, from their strategies to their roster of speakers, and what it means to go exclusive with the bureau and when to know if it's time to make that jump. I know you'll enjoy our free flowing conversation examining the past, present, and future of the professional speaking business.

Episode Notes

Insights from the World’s Largest Bureau (ft. Ryan Heil)

What we can learn from an industry powerhouse with a startup attitude run by a philosopher

OPENING QUOTE:

“So, I think that's our job, is to help speakers identify those nuggets, and the speaker's job's to take the complex and make it super applicable.”

-Ryan Heil

GUEST BIO:

Ryan Heil is the president of Washington Speakers Bureau, the largest and quite possibly the single most respected bureau on the planet. But if you dive into his resume, you'll find a whole bunch of unexpected treasures. A former player for the New York Mets and a D1 college baseball coach, Ryan also holds a doctor of philosophy. He co-authored a book entitled Choose Love Not Fear, and has served in numerous leadership positions at Clemson University.

Links:

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[7:44] - Finding the Fun in Futurism

Why Ryan Heil doesn’t fear what’s next

Not only is Ryan not concerned about the future of speaking in a rapidly changing marketplace — he’s excited by it. He’s brought a startup attitude to WSB, ensuring that nothing is sacred and no business strategy goes forward simply because “that’s the way it’s always been done.” His mantra, “Is there a better way to do this?” has helped WSB look toward the future, when many other long-established bureaus might be tempted to look only to their past. While Ryan acknowledges the company’s history has many lessons to teach, he believes those lessons revolve around how to evolve — and what happens when you don’t.

[13:41] - Helping Speakers Reinvent Themselves

How WSB helps guide speakers into new frontiers

When helping coach speakers to make themselves more marketable — and when selecting new speakers to go exclusive at WSB — Ryan focuses on a set of core questions.

Who is going to pay to hear these people speak and their message? What question is the speaker answering that the customer knows they need to answer? How do we help connect that dot? What is your simple message that you repeat over and over again? Do you have platform skills, and how good are those platform skills?

Emerging speakers should write these questions down somewhere, then set about answering each of them as they develop their brand.

[22:40] - When Not to Go Exclusive

Exclusive feels special, but it isn’t always right

When it comes to going exclusive, Ryan advises putting it off early on. When you’re figuring out who you are, making a name for yourself, carving out a space in the market — that's the time to work with as many different groups of people as possible. Keep developing your content, building your product, and finding customer bases. When it comes to the point where you need to either hire a back office or get with a bureau, then you know it’s time to start thinking seriously about going exclusive.

[28:39] - Ryan’s Realistic Optimism

The speaking industry will change. But it will also endure.

Ryan doesn’t beat around the bush when it comes to potential upheaval in the speaking industry.

“What budgets start to look like, what honorariums shift to, how contracts are done, I think all that's going to change. The inclusion of technology and AI into a lot of things, it's all going to change.”

And yet, Ryan says, “I do believe that the core of this is going to be around the relationships. Regardless of where people work, who they work with, the structure they work in, people are going to hold meetings. They’ve been holding meetings and having speakers since the beginning of time, and I think that’s going to continue.”

RESOURCES:

[1:29] About Washington Speakers Bureau
[1:50] Choose Love Not Fear, by Ryan Heil

Follow Ryan Heil:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

Episode Transcription

Ryan Heil:

So, I think that's our job, is to help speakers identify those nuggets, and the speaker's job's to take the complex and make it super applicable.

Josh Linkner:

Hey, Mic Drop enthusiast. Josh Linkner here, delighted to be bringing you season two of Mic Drop. I love our conversations with speakers and industry leaders alike so we can unpack the industry and we can all perform better. Let's get after it and get better together.

Maria Cairo:

Mic Drop is brought to you by ImpactEleven, the most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers to get on bigger stages at higher fees with greater impact, faster. They're not just elevating an industry that we all know and love. They work with thousands of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses, accelerating time to success, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. To learn more about the ImpactEleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

In our conversation, we cover a range of topics from the person in charge of writing the next chapter of WSB's story. We discuss how to embrace the future of the speaking industry without losing sight of the past, how a bureau like WSB keeps things fresh, from their strategies to their roster of speakers, and what it means to go exclusive with the bureau and when to know if it's time to make that jump. I know you'll enjoy our free flowing conversation examining the past, present, and future of the professional speaking business. Ryan, welcome to Mic Drop.

Ryan Heil:

Josh, thank you so much for having me. Really excited to be here and excited to be in this space, and grateful to be invited.

Josh Linkner:

Well, you have had such an amazing background, as I've gotten to know you and done a little bit of homework. A professional baseball player. I think you have more degrees than I can even count. Technically I think you're Dr. Ryan, if I'm correct. And today you are the president of Washington Speakers Bureau, the largest and really probably one of the most, if not the most respected bureaus, in the world. Give us a little sense, Ryan, of how you got into this position. Then of course we'll talk about what's going on now. But what's the backstory? How'd you go from professional athlete and doctoral student to running Washington Speakers Bureau?

Ryan Heil:

Oh man, it's a great question. It's a rather circuitous journey, but it definitely started when I was young. I have to take this all the way back there. I grew up with a single father who was a speaker, who became a speaker as I grew up, and I very much vividly remember the day that the Washington Speakers Bureau signed him. Because it was the day the trajectory of my life changed pretty dramatically. A lot changed, but throughout that time, it was known, it was a big deal to be associated with the Washington Speakers Bureau. And every summer I'd be dragged from speech to speech to speech to speech, and we'd obviously make our way to Washington at some point.

And I remember him just going, "This is the Washington Speakers Bureau. Best behavior. Let's go." And so it was it known, and it was always a place that I'd looked up to and respected. My journeys in my career took me a lot of different places and I did spend a lot of time in school and more time than I thought I ever would, but grateful for the opportunities. I'd done a lot of different things and I developed a way to assess culture that hadn't been done before. I was working with a number of companies and was plotting a move back west when the Washington Speakers Bureau gave me a shout and said, "Hey, listen, you grew up in the industry and you know what it is, and it's very special to you. You know our place. Do you have any interest in being a succession plan?" For me, it was a no-brainer. To be associated and to help lead this team of remarkable people, that has made such a traumatic impact in my life. It's been a blessing that I couldn't even imagine.

Josh Linkner:

Well, the exciting thing too is not only is there a very rich history, the future ahead is very compelling. Give us a sense though about today. So, Washington Speakers Bureau is known as really the most notable bureau, I think. In many industries, if it's investment banking, there's Goldman Sachs. If there's football, it's the Detroit Lions. No, I'm just kidding. Somebody not the Detroit Lions. But in the world of bureaus, even though there are many wonderful bureaus, and I'm friends and partners with all of them, WSB really stands out. Representing former presidents and heads of state and the people at the absolute top of their field. What do you think it is? What's the magic been to date that has allowed WSB to attain such an industry pole position?

Ryan Heil:

I tell you, there's a lot of credit to the people that have come before us, the Harry Rhoads', the Christine Farrells, the Bernie Swains', the Tony D'Amelios, the Bob Thomas's, many of whom have opened their own shops. But there are a lot of people that are presently working in this industry that have paved the way for I think the statement that you have made. And they've created an amazing organization. They've attracted amazing talent. They've serviced clients all over the world in incredible ways to create a reputation and a service offering that for a long time was very much unparalleled. And I'm grateful for the impact they've made and that they've allowed our team the opportunity to do some really special things.

And so there were a lot of people, the Harry Rhoads' and Bernie Swains' and the people that have really paved the way in this industry. It's a really special thing to be a part of and it's a special tradition to carry on. And in thinking about what does the next chapter of the Washington Speakers Bureau look like? The habits and the beliefs and the artifacts that made us successful in the past probably are not going to be the ones that make us successful in the future. And so it's a really fun time. It's a really interesting time to think about and envision what that starts to look like and how do we start to operationalize that and serve our clients better and serve our speakers better.

Josh Linkner:

Well, that's the thing. In any pursuit, getting to the top is one thing. Staying at the top is something else. And I really admired your sense of humility, and I've known Christine for many years and many of the folks at the bureau. And same type of thing, a real respect for where we've been, but a real also again, sense of humility and willingness to reinvent, reimagine, challenge conventional wisdom. As you are now finding yourself leading this historic organization, how are you thinking about reinvention as the world around us continues to change?

Ryan Heil:

I think that's the most fun part of all of this. Change is one of the only constant things in life and looking at, we really have taken a mantra internally to think about ourselves as very much a startup inside an established brand. And I think one of the things that... There are no sacred cows. At least challenge everything we do, from event management practices, to sales, to sales support. Just because we've always done it like this, should we keep doing it like this? Is there a better way to do this? Can we leverage technology?

And I think it's a really important thing to do that, but also not lose track of what got you there. And I will tell you, I'm proud of our reputation and proud of how people think about us, but what I'm most proud of is the relationships. And the relationships that our speakers have with the people inside of our company, the relationships that our sales agents have with our customers. And I think that is at the core of everything we do. It's all about relationships, period. We do what's best for customers, we do what's best for speakers, and we do what's best for the relationship always.

Josh Linkner:

So, one of the things that helped WSB become so famous is representing notable luminaries, George W. Bush and Adam Grant these days and others, and they have a different problem than many other speakers. Their problem is regulating demand. There's unlimited demand for George W. Bush to speak or unlimited demand for Adam Grant or Dan Pink to speak. So, in that case, you're managing their calendar, you're working with a limited set of inventory. There's more demand than supply. In other cases, folks like me that have been around for a while, I don't have unlimited demand. And so I got to imagine that you're working with one set of speakers that are trying to beat demand back with a stick and another set of speakers that are trying to essentially create more demand. How do you navigate those two seemingly competing priorities among two different very distinct groups of speakers?

Ryan Heil:

Yeah, well, it's a really interesting question. The way I think about our businesses is in two sides, and we've talked about this before. We have a sales side, which our sales side, what we tell our agents and our agents are passionate about this is, we do what's best for our customers, period. Whether that's an exclusive speaker or not, the priority is making sure that the people that come to us and trust us with their [inaudible 00:09:59] and trust us with their business is that we do what's best for them. On the other side, it is to identify, attract, develop talent that will be the best to serve our customers and continue to keep them in demand. I think, Josh, one of the things you mentioned is the size and the scale that we operate on I think is really unique in our business. In doing so, it has allowed us to really invest in data. And it gives us amazing insights into different industries, into customer behavior.

It allows us to really understand our customers. And what that allows us to do, and I think it's something that we've recently started doing since the pandemic and really invested in this, is helping our speakers connect better with where customers are on a regular basis and sharing that information continually, allowing them to see really where customers are, what the changing trends are, how they can connect their content to make it more relevant in customer's eyes. And that's been a really big deal for us as far as when we think about the exclusives that are on the backside of their demand curve, when we think about people that are on the front side of their demand curve and just building their career, it's really about, okay, how do we connect to different industries? What is the financial services industry looking for that maybe education isn't? How is hospitality industry buying now post-pandemic that might've been different prior to it?

We think about keywords in the same way, right? So, resilience. Everybody was asking for resilience in 2021 and 2020. Now, you talk to customers like, "We're looking for something a little different." And it's really innovation or disruption. Different name, same concept. So, it's how do we keep our speakers connected? And it's a focus of us, and that's the other side of our business, that if we feel like if we do our job on that side, that those speakers will be a natural fit for our sales team on the other side. To follow up in that, I think about the high demand speakers and there's a responsibility on that side as well to communicate with those speakers about what the demand curve looks like. And that is, it is not forever. They have the opportunity to be associated with someone like a George W. Bush and the prime ministers and all the big names.

It's an honor, and their demand is a little different than probably many others. Dan Pink and Adam Grant, their demand curve is limited. And it's about educating them about where they're in that demand curve. How do we address fee pricing in that demand curve? Saying no to too many things, what does that do to that demand curve? And then how do we recognize when it's time to start thinking about refreshing? How do we recognize when we've hit the peak and now we're kind of on the backside, and so how do we start planning the next thing? And so we have some speakers that have done amazing jobs to continually look at that at about a once every four year type cycle of, how do we continue to refresh that?

Josh Linkner:

It's really cool because as you continue to reinvent WSB, you're also helping speakers reinvent themselves to maintain relevancy and marketability. So, I was going to ask you, within the group of exclusives, and WSB is, for those that don't know, you do both exclusive and non-exclusive relationships, of course, but you have a very healthy bench of exclusive. I know that's a core part of the business. Some of those exclusives are, again, those people who are famous people, unlimited demand type people. When Colin Powell was around, people like that. But then you also have speakers that are not household names. As you are evaluating talent and deciding who's going to be the next WSB exclusive, what are some of the things that you look for?

Ryan Heil:

I think this is really important and this is something that is evolving and changing and something that we have done a deep dive on in looking at what has allowed a lot of these speakers to be successful and grow and what has allowed a lot of these speakers to continue to stay successful and what's important, what factors are [inaudible 00:14:02] important. When we look at it, we look at it as the marketability. Who is going to pay to hear these people speak and their message? So, it's what question is the speaker answering that the customer knows they need to answer? And how do we help connect that dot? That first and foremost, are you answering a question that the customer knows they need to answer? What is your simple message that you repeat over and over again? All right. Do you have platform skills and how good are those platform skills?

Do you have the ability to wow audiences? Because at the end of the day, as anybody that books speeches, you're really risk managers for these people. At the end of the day, they have to be able to perform on stage. They have to be able to do it. So, there's that. Then there's the other things that really play in and that is, what are speakers doing on their own for their marketing? Because there's no bureau, talent agency or not, that can be a speaker's marketing arm. It's too much. So, we can amplify marketing. We market directly to our customers. We market a lot, but we cannot be this whole source of their market. We do amplify that. And so what are speakers doing? Are they publishing regularly? Do they have a book out there? Do they have good video that's consistently up-to-date?

How are they staying relevant in people's minds? If they're not in a big name, what are their plans to build their brand? And because if they have thought out plans, they not be a big name, they may not have a big following on social, but if they have plans and they're executing on those plans and they're trying, there just needs to be a path forward. Because that's where our customers are identifying and that's the top of the funnel. The other thing we look at is looking at, are people willing to do enough dates to be relevant? Because I think that's something that's really important. When anybody has relationships with meeting planners and we start going through the buying process and you start selling them, the worst thing that can happen is, as you're well aware, is you get all the way down to the bottom and you go, "We love Josh."

And we go and we've done a day check and whatnot, and John, "I don't really know." You get a no. You get a decline. You don't want to do it. You have to have people that want to say yes. You have to have people that are easy to do business with. And yeah, those are the major factors. If they're connected to people that are on our roster. What kind of projectability do they have? Those are other questions we answer, but it's really a weighted... What is their marketability? Who's going to pay to hear them speak? What customers are they asking? Platform skills, marketing skills.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, it's really interesting and I'm not surprised by most of those. The one I would love to double click on though is the notion of the speaker needing to also be involved in their own demand gen. The myth I think that some speakers have is, "I'm signed with the Washington Speakers Bureau. I'll just sit back and let the offers roll in. I'm now absolved of all responsibility to create demand for myself." And of course we know that is a deep myth. Where have you seen it best where there's an intersection? As you said, you accelerate demand rather than just purely creating it alone. Can you share with me an example of where a speaker has been effective at helping to contribute to that equation?

Ryan Heil:

Yes. No, no, no. There's several of them. We have an AI speaker who's a university professor named Ethan Mollick. And Ethan is one of the world's experts in AI. In fact, OpenAI would love to have him be more affiliated, but he's really committed to his academic integrity and whatnot. But he does one of the best jobs in the field of connecting how to simplify AI, how to understand it, how to use it with tactical, real advice. But he's one. There are a lot of really smart professors like Ethan who are out there, but Ethan has taken his social media following in the last 12 months and grown it 100,000 people. He has a newsletter list of 50,000 people. And so when you're out there pitching people and they're producing stuff on their own, and you can reference it, you can link to it, it provides social proof, it really takes someone who's not a huge name, who may be a big name in his field of AI, Ethan Mollick, but not wide, to have him go, "Financial services need him. Hospitality needs him."

Everybody wants to hear him because he has a message that everybody needs to learn about, very applicable. But he's doing the work out there to help get the buyers excited, to help get the audience members excited, and to show them the value that he's going to bring in the talk that he's going to bring. And so if we can amplify that, if we can piggyback on it, we'll repost them. We'll talk about the messages. We'll connect it to sales things. We'll put it in our sales proposals. There's a million ways in which we take content like that and people that are doing that and engage it into our processes and leverage it. But there's very much an element of potentiation that happens when speakers are active in that.

Josh Linkner:

So, you're talking about him specifically. You said something there that I wanted to explore. I've long believed that it's, of course you have to be an expert in something to be a speaker clearly. But if you want to really be at the top of the game in addition to be an expert, you need to be a simplifier. And what you mentioned about your AI expert there is that he's able to take these complex ideas and make them understandable, palatable and simple. And I think when I look at some of the most prolific speakers, Simon Sinek, Start With Why, he took a concept that by the way wasn't even that new, but it made it simple and easy to understand. My friend Mel Robbins' 5 Second Rule, again, not even a net new concept, but now she packaged it in a way that's easy to understand. To what extent are you seeing a correlation in a speaker's success, not only based on their depth of and body of work and their expertise, but their ability to simplify their message so people can understand it and ultimately buy it?

Ryan Heil:

I think it's imperative. It's everything. It's human nature. We crave simplicity and we crave predictability and stability. And the best orders in the world are the people that can take the complex, make it simple and make it applicable to the audience. And there's one speaker that we have that has a mantra. What'd he say? He said, "Just get three things, repeat them over and over and over again, and that's the secret to being a great speaker." Probably a little bit oversimplified, but it is true. And I think when you think of even just the academicians in our field, Josh, that have had the biggest impact in the speaking space, two of the bigger ones that come to mind, Jim Collins and Adam Grant, and I think those are the two that have crossed this scholar/practitioner divide almost better than anybody else.

They do it and they take these complicated things and they make them super simple and they make them understandable. They make them digestible. And I think that's why you see a lot of customers gravitating towards people that have real boots on the ground experience. Because they are looking for this simple, the applicable, the, "What can I take home from this weekend or from this speech that I can start to implement tomorrow to make a positive impact in my life and the people's lives around me?" I think that's what people are looking for. So, I think that's our job, is to help speakers identify those nuggets, and the speaker's job's to take the complex and make it super applicable.

Maria Cairo:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions while driving massive impact for audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow rot with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you're serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at ImpactEleven can help. From crafting your ideal positioning to optimizing your marketing effectiveness, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills. As the only speaker training and development community run by current high level speakers at the top of the field, they'll boost your probability of success and help you get there faster. That's why nearly every major speaker bureau endorses and actively participates in ImpactEleven. The ImpactEleven community provides you unparalleled access to the people, relationships, coaching and accountability that compresses your time to success. To learn more about the ImpactEleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

Back on the notion of exclusive relationships, because I know many people listening are exploring different alternative routes to market, and I wouldn't say anyone's right or wrong, it's what's the right fit for an individual speaker. You talked about some of the examples of when it might be the time to be an exclusive, how it should be if you've obviously already got a good chunk of demand, you are doing a lot of these things, you develop some momentum in the business, et cetera. When do you think it's bad advice to become exclusive? In other words, when should someone, perhaps it's not a criticism on exclusivity, but when is it better in a speaker's situation to say, "Now's not the right time. Why don't you stay independent?"

Ryan Heil:

That's a great question. I think early, early on in people's careers, probably until they make a name for themselves, until they carve out a space for themselves as they're still finding who they are as a speaker, I think it's important to work with a lot of different groups and get yourself out there as much as possible. I think you know this better than me in this space by a lot, and that is you can't replace the reps, right? The reps you get out there are invaluable, and that's really important. And one of the things that I've noticed, and really we've learned a lot along this journey of exclusivity, is that in the nineties when people wanted to be exclusive, it was a pretty simple offering. White glove service [inaudible 00:24:03] management were the best. Come play. And it was great, and we'd sell them, and we had a catalog and the internet didn't exist and it was easy.

It's gotten a little more complicated now and there's a lot more factors involved with this now. And I will tell you, talking to speakers, you'll have the demands and hence the needs and why they want to be exclusive are really varied and different. And so it's our job as the stewards of their speaking career is to help meet those needs, whether it's, "Hey, listen, I'm a solid speaker now, but I would love a coach and a mentor to help take my platform skills to the next level. Hey, you know what? I wrote one book a few years ago. I got another one. Can you connect me with publishers and can you help me with it? Can you connect me with the people who can help in my digital presence?

The needs and access are varied. And so I think when you look at as simple as being a back office, if your career is getting to the point where, "You know what? I have to make a decision where I have to hire a back office, or maybe I can leverage the Washington Speakers Bureau to be my back office where I don't have to worry about the complications of really having employees." So, I think where I would advise people not to is if they are still working to develop their own content, their product, their niche, and when they start to get a little bit of momentum, when they start to feel it, then looking for the opportunity that's right for them, the people that work with the right customer bases that are right for them and they're going to meet their needs. Because every place is a little different. Every offering's a little different. I think that we have a lot of competitors in the space and some of them offer really great offerings as well.

Josh Linkner:

When you think about change, so you mentioned your dad was in the industry and lot's changed since he was doing those dates when you were growing up, and even a lot has changed over this last several years with COVID and new technology and such, what do you think has changed about the exclusive speaker relationship? I'll say that the biggest objection historically has been, "Well, if I am exclusive with WSB, then Kepler and leading authorities in Premier are never going to sell me and I cut off other bureaus." We know of course that not to be true, but maybe you can elaborate on that particular objection and other objections that maybe people misunderstand and they ought to be in an exclusive relationship, but they're, for whatever reason, afraid or misunderstand that situation.

Ryan Heil:

I think it's really interesting. You mentioned this exclusive dynamic has changed radically and continues to evolve and what that looks like and what offerings are more value than not, and what types of speakers need different things as well. I think that one of the things that we found very important is really looking at this industry as a whole, looking at our bureau partners, looking at our agency partners and going, "There's a huge pie out here. How do we do best for our speakers?" And so for a while, exclusivity meant cutting exposure off, cutting access off. We've launched something last year, we're calling it the Bureau Partnership Program, where we talked to our exclusives and said, "Listen, our responsibility is to bring you as many offers as exist out there, and what is that going to look like and take?

That's going to look like, rather than just splitting our commission as we normally do with all these parent bureaus, that means potentially giving up a little bit more, but we're going to offer that to our parent bureau to provide the same opportunity that we have internally with our customers, to not disincentivize them to come book us so that we can leverage everybody's sales teams to bring you as many offers as we can." Because when we're working within customers, they're the most important things. When we're working with speakers entrust their careers with us, which is really how we see this when they decided to go exclusive, is we have to do everything in our power. Now as a speaker, you can choose to accept that or not, but it was provided to you and you have the opportunity.

And so I think exclusivity is changing and looking differently. I don't know where it's going to land, and I think we have a pretty good idea of some things, but I think it's really up in the air. It certainly isn't going to be what it used to be. It certainly will be more, how do we best serve our clients and our speakers in different ways?

Josh Linkner:

I want to ask you, Ryan, I know you're very philosophical, as is evidenced by your numerous degrees and inquisitive mind. Where do you think things are headed? None of us have a crystal ball, but if you and I are sitting down having a chat five years from now, what are some of the thoughts that you've had on how the industry, both from the speaker perspective and the bureau perspective, may look different?

Ryan Heil:

I think it will look different. I think there's no way around that. But I do believe that the one constant thing that will continue to be there is it's continually going to be about the relationships. It's going to be about the relationships with the speakers. It's going to be about the relationships with the buyers, the meeting planners. Regardless of where people work, who they work, the structure they work in, people are going to hold meetings. They've been holding meetings and having speakers since the beginning of time. And I think it's going to continue to do so. I think what budgets start to look like, what honorariums shift to, how contracts are done, I think all that's going to change. The inclusion of technology and AI into a lot of things, it's all going to change, but I do believe that the core of this is going to be around the relationships.

It's going to be about, how do I bring in someone who's going to rock the audience, who's going to be a home run, who's going to leave me with the end result that I'm looking for, and who can I trust to really provide that kind of talent for us that can make it easy for me? And then on the speaking side, who can I trust to help meet my needs in my career and amplify the initiatives that I have and serve my needs? And it's going to be about the relationships. As much as things change and as fast as things change, the core of it I believe is going to be the same.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, I think there's so much merit to what you said. And it's funny, I start to brainstorm like, "What could we change if we had an opportunity?" And I don't know if you've ever thought about a crazy one. I'll share one. I'd love your feedback on it. So, in many industries, look at advertising, advertising used to be sold a certain way and then it shifted to pay for performance. Keynotes are today historically have been purchased on a flat fee basis. Someone's fee is 50 grand or 30 grand or 175. That's the fee. The fee is the fee.

What about a sliding scale based on performance? If someone said to me, "Hey, Josh, I know your fee is 35, how about this? We'll take a real-time survey using technology of the audience's satisfaction with your keynote. If you really perform, you can earn up to 50. If you underperform, you'll drop down to 10. Take it or leave it." I would take it in a second. I'd love that, man. It'd be awesome. And so there's a massive economic business model shift that could rock the industry with just that one idea. Curious, number one, do you like that idea? But more importantly, do you have any other wacko ideas that you think might be a step function shift in our little cottage industry?

Ryan Heil:

Oh, man. I have about a million of them, Josh. That's an interesting idea. I think it would be really interesting to see how the application of that plays out. Man, I have so many that I have to preface them in meetings with my team. I'm like, "Okay, so this one's out there. This is one of those ideas." But no, it's interesting. We've talked about things from even during COVID when the language for recording language was a major piece of the stumbling block going, nowhere else in any other industry do we just charge a flat fee for this. If it's going to 100,000 eyeballs, it's going to be a different price than it's going to a million eyeballs and it's being for five eyeballs.

And so when we think about recording language and how long a recording should last, should we be doing it like advertising on a CPM basis? Should stuff mirror the way all other media is purchased or should it? There's a lot of different things out there. There's a lot of different ideas of what could start to make differences, some significant changes in there. I won't give away the farm just yet, but I think there's some really interesting ways to go about doing things. It'll be pretty fun to see what technology does, how AI plays a role, all that.

Josh Linkner:

Well, it's so refreshing, Ryan, getting to know you better and becoming friends and seeing where you provide not only respect from where the bureau has been, but also a deep curiosity to where things are headed. And I think it's your willingness to be humble about the success that the agency has had and really with an eye to the future and an eye to reinvention, that gives me a tremendous amount of confidence that WSB will continue to remain one of, if not the top players, in our industry. So, as we wrap up our conversation today, I just want to say thanks. Thanks for your leadership. Thanks for our friendship, and thanks for sharing so many great ideas from regular to crazy with all of our guests today on Mic Drop.

Ryan Heil:

No, Josh, I just want to thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for your friendship. Thank you and your partners at ImpactEleven for what you're doing for this speaking community. I think it's amazing. I think what you guys are doing is awesome. You guys are providing really actionable, timely, valuable information to people at all different phases in their career, that if they work at it, if they have the goods, it's going to provide them every chance to be successful. And I think their interaction with bureaus, and I just think what you guys are doing is really important as far as getting really good information out there in an industry that has been pretty disaggregated and fractured for a very long time.

Josh Linkner:

Thanks again. Wishing you all the best and look forward to seeing you soon.

Ryan Heil:

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks, Josh.

Josh Linkner:

A conversation with Ryan is always energizing and inspiring, but he made a few points today that will stay with me long after the mics are off. Number one, I really appreciate Ryan's holistic view of the speaking industry. As a bureau leader, it's easy to get lost in the weeds of the day-to-day needs of your roster, your team, and your contacts. But Ryan's ability to modulate between details and vision is a powerful model for success. Number two, I appreciated Ryan's humility. It would be easy for him to be cocky with a doctoral degree and being a professional baseball player and now leading the largest bureau on the planet. But instead, Ryan's humble, open-minded approach was heartening and a reminder for us all that keeping that beginner's mindset regardless of our achievements is crucial.

And number three, Ryan shared his belief that both everything and nothing is going to change in the speaking industry. Factors like changing budgets and new technologies and AI will certainly cause disruption, but relationships are always going to drive how speeches are bought and sold. No doubt in my mind that Ryan's leadership will help WSB evolve and thrive as the business continues to change. While I wouldn't want to try for a base hit off of his fastball, he certainly pitched us some powerful wisdom today, right down the center of the strike zone. Thanks so much for listening and see you next time on Mic Drop.

Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next Mic Drop moment.