Mic Drop

Keeping the Beat (ft. Mark Schulman)

Episode Summary

One of the most respected drummers working today, Mark Schulman knows what it means to take charge of a band’s rhythm, timing, and dynamics. Now he’s taking those principles to keynote stages around the world, helping transform lives and organizations with his message. Hear his perspective on this week’s musical Mic drop.

Episode Notes

Keeping the Beat (ft. Mark Schulman)

Legendary drummer and must-see speaker Mark Schulman on where music and leadership meet

OPENING QUOTE:

“I talk about how when I sit behind the drums, I don't just play the drums. I am the drums. And when I get up to give a speech, I don't just give a speech, I am the speech. I literally take on that persona and I allow myself to be selfless. And I'm always thinking, What can I do for you? What can I do for them? What can I do for the audience?”

-Mark Schulman

GUEST BIO:

Legendary drummer Mark Schulman has been the go-to drummer for Pink, Foreigner, Stevie Nicks, Beyonce, Cher, Sheryl Crow, and many more. He’s been voted one of the top-three pop/rock drummers and been featured as a cover artist on Modern Drummer magazine. Now, he’s also one of the most successful keynote speakers on the circuit, as well as a successful author.

Links:

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[8:00] - Discipline is Discipline

Drumming or speaking, the root is the same

Success in one discipline doesn’t always translate to success in another. But for Mark, learning to be a great drummer and learning to be a great speaker depended on the same core principles— discipline, action, and refinement over time. Mark says he’s always studying, always reading, and always looking for ways to improve his content and delivery. It’s that same discipline that made him one of the world’s great drummers.

[13:12] - The Rock Star Mindset

Where confidence meets selflessness

Being a rock star doesn’t mean being a selfish diva. In fact, the great rock stars embody two great principles— utter confidence in who they are, and the recognition that what they provide is an act of service. When Mark’s onstage, either behind a drum kit or a microphone, he’s there to bring something magical to the audience. Anyone, from a fresh name in speaking to a longtime expert, can embody that rock star approach.

[15:10] - Speaking to the One

Mark’s backstage moment of intention

While a speaker stands in front of a crowd of dozens, hundreds, or thousands, Mark says that you have to focus on each individual audience member. Before each event, he takes a moment backstage to remind himself that he’s having a series of one-on-one conversations— not delivering a message to a monolithic crowd. This helps him connect on a personal level with each person that attends his events.

[33:21] - Get On That Stage

Mark’s #1 piece of advice for budding speakers

You’re early in your career. You’ve got some early momentum. Mark’s advice? “It is really all about clocking the hours on stage. You need that experience. Any chance you get with a Rotary Club, with a Moose lodge, with a Masons or church group, temple, whatever— speak, speak, speak. Whether it’s for free, whether it’s for money…Nothing replaces that time on stage.”

RESOURCES:

[7:05] Conquering Life’s Stage Fright, by Mark Schulman
[9:24] Bruce Turkel
[29:23] Pink’s Record-Breaking Tour

Follow Mark Schulman:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by ImpactEleven.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

ABOUT eSPEAKERS:

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eSpeakers is where the speaking industry does business on the web. Speakers, speaker managers, associations, and bureaus use our tools to organize, promote and grow successful businesses. Event organizers think of eSpeakers first when they want to hire speakers for their meetings or events.

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Thousands of successful speakers, trainers, and coaches use eSpeakers to build their businesses and manage their calendars. Thousands of event organizers use our directories every day to find and hire speakers. Our tools are built for speakers, by speakers, to do things that only purpose-built systems can.

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Episode Transcription

Mark Schulman:

Josh Linkner:

Welcome to Mic Drop Podcast, the podcast for professional speakers. We cover the ins and outs of the business, helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages at higher feeds. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by eSpeakers. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Get ready for some inspiring mic drop moments together.

Josh Linkner:

Today's show is sponsored by ImpactEleven formerly known as 3 Ring Circus, the best and most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers. They're not just elevating an industry we know and love, they work with hundreds of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses, earning tens of millions of speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. To learn more and schedule a free intro call visit impacteleven.com that's impact E-L-E-V-N.com.

Josh Linkner:

Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. If you want more audiences and organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use eSpeakers to manage and grow their business. When you use eSpeakers, you'll feel confident about your business, package yourself up for success and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30 day trial visit espeakers.com/micdrop, that's espeakers.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

How did the drummer for Pink, and Foreigner, and Stevie Nicks become one of the most successful keynote speakers on the circuit? On today's episode of Mic Drop, we go backstage with the legendary rock star and my buddy Mark Schulman. Over the last 30 years on the road, he's performed for over a billion people, backing Billy Idol, Beyonce, Cher, Foreigner, Stevie Nicks, Sheryl Crow, and of course he's been Pink's main drummer for 14 years. Mark was voted top three pop rock drummers in the 2014 Modern Drummer Readers Poll and was the featured cover artist in the May 2019 issue of Modern Drummer.

Josh Linkner:

These days, Mark delivers keynotes all over the world, helping audiences bring out their own inner rock star. His second book is on the way and his second act as one of the most successful keynote speakers on the scene is really taking off. In today's conversation with Mark, we cover what keynote speakers can learn from rock stars and how to develop our own rock star like attitude and swagger. The warm-up technique Mark does to set his intention before every performance and how to shine the spotlight back on the audience, making them the star and why that's the key to every great keynote.

Josh Linkner:

We even explore musical concepts like rhythm, timing, and dynamics, and how they can translate to the world of professional speaking. Get ready to rock it out with this legendary drummer, author, keynote speaker and proper rock star. Mark Schulman, welcome to Mic Drop.

Mark Schulman:

Josh Linkner, I am honored to be here with you, my friend. We just need to share the stage sometimes so we can actually play together and jam.

Josh Linkner:

Amen to that. So of course, I'm here with an amazing world class drummer's who played with professional acts around the world, including most famously Pink. I'm a hack guitar player who plays jazz, but maybe one day you'll be generous enough to let me hack along, but back to playing music and your amazing world, both as a keynote speaker and a drummer, take me back a little bit. Obviously you started in the musical category. How did you even get into keynote speaking in the first place?

Mark Schulman:

By doing about a thousand drumming clinics. So I have spent, in 1991, I did my first drum clinic and I was petrified. I realized when I actually did it, that I had this propensity for teaching that I had inherited from my professorial parents, because my parents were both college professors. And I realized, "Wow, I like this. This is working for me." As I continued to go along that path, I realized also that people were resonating more with the success coaching and the stories than they were the drumming. And at a point I was thinking, "Well, how can I transpose this," to use a nice musical term, "Into other industries? Because it's a very limited microcosm if I'm speaking to just drummers, because I can use this format to then convey messaging to the collegiate market and the corporate market." And that's exactly what I did.

Mark Schulman:

I just started transitioning over and then I started with a couple of speaking coaches, including Patricia Fripp. I studied with an acting coach, with a director, with a storyteller. I really refined my game and learned how to communicate in the corporate world, and speak to the corporate folks, and understand their pains and what they really need and how I can adjust my content and refine what I do. But it's essentially, that's why I call it a Rock Show Disguised as a Keynote, because it's essentially I play drums. I perform, I use the performances demonstratively to demonstrate a lot of my concepts.

Mark Schulman:

There's a lot of interactivity, a lot of engagement and I call myself an edutainment speaker because it's very broad-based content that's very usable, and chunked up so easily so everybody can immediately apply it. I show video, I play along with Pink videos. I tell all these stories about Pink and stories about Billy Idol. I use them as examples of success and tell some pretty shocking stories.

Mark Schulman:

I even talk about myself and I get very personal. I talk about the fact that I'm a cancer survivor. I've positioned everything that I know and everything I've learned from being on stage all of these years, because it's been way more than 10,000 hours being on stage. And that transfers even if it started as drumming, then it became drum clinics. And now it's speaking.

Mark Schulman:

I have left the Pink band. I've quit touring to speak full-time because I decided that it is vastly more rewarding and vastly more challenging. And so here I am a full-time speaker and coming out with a book, and my second book actually, and I am just loving it, man. I'm loving the evolution. I'm loving the fact that I've identified as a musician, just touring musician for 32 years. And then I took that safety net away. And wow, is it exciting? It's just so sensational.

Josh Linkner:

That's so good. And I of course love your energy. I think you're the first person to ever say. I took away the "safety net of being a touring musician," which is really very funny, because most people, that's not exactly a safety net, but for you at your level of success, it was. I wanted just drill in on something. When you learned to play drums, undoubtedly you practiced till late hours in the night, you made huge sacrifices. You worked on your technique, you studied the grades, you developed your own voice. You still undoubtedly practiced hours and hours. You were always rehearsing.

Josh Linkner:

Then you translate to keynote speaking. I call it the transfer fallacy where you say, "Oh, I'm really good at one thing. I was a great Hall of Fame athlete. And so therefore I would instantly be great at keynote speaking." You of course studied keynote speaking as you mentioned with coaches, undoubtedly you practiced and still practiced. Undoubtedly you watched tape. Tell us about how the discipline of learning to play the drums at the highest level, what did you learn from learning to play the drums that you now learned to become a great keynote speaker?

Mark Schulman:

Well, discipline is discipline. As you know, it's taking action. You're a guitar player, so you got to spend all those hours practicing and developing that craft. And you're probably the most employed speaker on the planet. You've really refined and you're continuing to work and you're continuing to expand your content. I took the discipline I learned and had applied previously, I practiced my speech, normally about five times a week, and because I have a basic speech, and then I customize it, and now I'm developing other speeches. But I really take it seriously.

Mark Schulman:

I'm always finding ways to refine my content. I'm always studying. I'm always reading more. And the thing that I love is the speakers have become the rock stars to me, like Marc Schoenbach and you, and just any speakers that I can absorb and watch, Bruce Turkel, I love. There's so many. Shep Hyken, and then these people have become my friends, Dan Thurmon, and so many other people, Tiffani Bova. I study these people and to me they're the rock stars.

Mark Schulman:

Now, I've gone from studying Ringo, listening to Led Zeppelin and Buddy Rich and Miles Davis, to studying all the techniques and the nuances of these people. It really is the matter of transferring the discipline that you learn, from one thing to another. But you need to know that you need to do that, because I never made the assumption I would be good at it. I found out when I did my first drum clinic when I got on stage like, "Oh I have the teaching gene," but frankly I was a grammar and composition tutor under my mom who ran the tutorial center when I was 19 years old. My dad had a PhD in grammar and he wrote four college level grammar books.

Mark Schulman:

My mom gave me my own class to teach. So I was teaching a class at 19 years old, illegally I should add, because I wasn't supposed to be doing it, so I already had the experience of understanding, "I can get up in front of a crowd and I can engage them. I can teach them." And then I learned how to entertain them and incorporate everything I do. And I believe that we all can learn from each other. I believe that my platform, I'm so grateful that I have the platform because of the success that I've had to be able to get up in front of people because they go, "Oh, he's the drummer for Pink, and Foreigner, and Stevie Nicks, and Cheryl Crow. I should listen to him because he's had some success there. Maybe I can learn something from them."

Mark Schulman:

And then I surprise them with interesting and unique stories that they really don't expect from a rock star dude. Also, I give my own personal email address out. I make myself very accessible. I'm sort of the for being "a rock star" and I don't buy that. That's the role that I play. That is the value that I'm presenting because when I do my 32nd video, this Hollywood style video that shows everything that I don't remember, but when I play it, people go, "Oh, this guy's credible." So Fonzie said to Richie when Richie was about to get into a fight, he said, "Oh, I forgot to tell. You had to have hit someone. You need the cred."

Mark Schulman:

These people that are all star athletes and these people that have had all kinds of professional experience in other contexts, they have the cred and then you need to do the work, 10,000 hours or more. I had already had the stage experience. I just needed to refine it and make it into something that is usable. Here's my basic philosophy is, when I get on stage, I don't want people to walk away thinking, "God, Mark was so cool." I want people to walk away feeling like they have the rock and roll attitude. They have the rock and roll swagger. They have been able to have immediate takeaways that they can automatically apply to their lives, and their communication, and how they deal with their teams, and how they deal with their employees, how they deal with their leadership.

Mark Schulman:

That's the idea. The idea is like, "I'm not going to get up there and just tell stories about how cool I am." That's easy. I was doing that with the drum clinics, but it's making the content very, very relevant as you know, because you're a content maven, so that's what we do.

Josh Linkner:

Right on. There's so many key points to tease out that the fact that you're doing a keynote in service of others, you think of rock stars as self-centered divas and it's all about them, them, them. But really what you're doing as an of service. You're there to help lift others up to rock star status, not to boast about your own status. And so with that in mind, obviously one of the topics that you speak on is this rock and roll attitude. Having the swagger and confidence, feeling like a rock star in the business world, what can we keynote speakers learn? How can we feel like a rock star? What rock star advice would you borrow from what you share with the largest companies in the world to your fellow keynote speakers?

Mark Schulman:

Well, the foundation of what I talk about is the power of attitude. And this applies across the board. I haven't spoken to keynote speakers, but I've spoken to meeting planners and I've spoken to agents. The fact that we can't always control what happens to us, but we always have the power to change, control or shift our attitudes. And if you understand that you have that power and all that really takes it is a decision to choose an attitude that serves you, and I know that sounds simple, but people that take action, you're constantly making decisions. When you make a decision, you are cutting off all other possibilities.

Mark Schulman:

But what gets exciting about this is when you make the decision to shift your attitude. Your attitude is what controls your behavior. Think about the power and implications of that. And one attitude can drive many behaviors and your behavior is what determines the consequences of your life. If you know that you have the power to shift your attitude as a speaker and drive more desirable behaviors, you can drive more desirable outcomes in your life. And that's the foundation about what I speak and understand that the power of attitude is really enormous. This determines who you are being as well.

Mark Schulman:

I talk about when I sit behind the drums, I don't just play the drums. I am the drums. And when I get up to give a speech, I don't just give a speech, I am the speech. I literally take on that persona and I allow myself to be selfless. I'm always, always thinking about, "What can I do for you? What can I do for them? What can I do for the audience?" As a matter of fact, when I do my little mantra before I go on stage, that's what I talk about. I don't necessarily call it a prayer or whatever, but I just say, "Here's my intention. My intention is to be completely of service, for everybody to really resonate, for everybody to really walk away with usable content that they can use so they feel the swagger, so they feel like rock stars."

Mark Schulman:

I never talk about myself or pull it back to myself because I don't matter. I'm the conduit and that enables you to just let your ego go, and get out there, and be pure and be honest, and have the attitude that you are there to serve. And when you have that attitude that you are there to serve, and what Patricia Fripp told me is, "When you walk across that stage and you want to use the entire stage, I am connecting. I'm looking in the eyes of everybody that I can because I want every audience member to feel like this is a personal conversation."

Mark Schulman:

That's another thing that can eliminate a lot of the nervousness is, if you just think, "I'm talking to one person, and one person, and one person." That is the philosophy, I'm not talking to a group of people because the idea is everybody needs to feel like they are getting that personal experience from me. I don't say, "You guys. I always say, you." I make it personal and I connect, and I truly connect. I look in the eyes of everybody. Even the people that aren't smiling back, we have those challenging audience members. Some audiences are great. When I play with Pink, I come out to this adoring audience or just scream and they love us. When I come on stage people are like, "What the hell? Who's this guy and what am I going to learn from him?" I need to win them over.

Mark Schulman:

I need to be present and I need to be of value to them. So immediately the first thing I do is I come out and I say, "I am here to be your own personal rock star and nobody better to be your own personal rock star than me." So they immediately know that I am here to be of service to them. I don't talk about, "Hey, I'm going to talk about all the cool things in my life," and say, "No, I am here for you." I think any speaker really takes on that viewpoint before they go on stage, they will have a very acute awareness of purpose and why? Because your purpose and your why is what drives you. Remember one of the things I talk about in my speech is that passion is important. You need to be passionate, but passion is fleeting.

Mark Schulman:

So what drives us beyond passion? The expansion of passion is purpose. So passion may, like I talk about, "Here's what I play," and I demonstrate on drums. "Here's what I play. Then here's how I play it." The how is really big and grand. But I said beyond, that's driven by passion. The purpose is why you do it. So if you are in touch with your why, why are you there? And get in touch with that why, right before you go on stage to be of service, to truly connect with every single person that will really help drive your message, and drive you, and get you outside of your head, and get you in that position of being of service.

Josh Linkner:

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Josh Linkner:

That's why the major bureaus like Washington Speakers Bureau, Premiere Speakers, SpeakInc, Executive Speakers, Harry Walker Agency, Keppler, Gotham Artists, and GDA all endorse and participate in ImpactEleven. From interactive boot camps to one-on-one coaching, if you are looking to take your speaking career to the next level, they'll help you make a bigger impact faster. For a free 30 minute consultation, visit impacteleven.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

You've given us so much to think about there on attitude. I wouldn't mind even double clicking one layer deeper though. We all think, "Yeah, I want to add a good attitude. I want to feel like a rock star," but knowing that you want that, and then knowing how to do that are two different things. You taught us a couple of things about being intentional, about connecting with people one-on-one. Are there any other tips or tricks, tactics that we can use to flip on the attitude, to even turn up the volume on our attitude. Any real practical tools? What should we do in a moment so that we can amplify our attitude?

Mark Schulman:

Well, as I said in the moment, Actually, I'll go through this. Why not? I actually show people how to do an immediate attitude shift and I do this every single day of my life. I've created this, it's a little ritual and it's so quick. So basically I start by thinking of an attitude that I want to create, and I'm using the best psychology and physiology that I found to produce the most immediate and most powerful results. Essentially when I think about an attitude, you could call it point of view. You can call it mindset, whatever you're comfortable with.

Mark Schulman:

Something like happiness, joy, confidence, courage, whatever it is you want to create at that moment. Let's take joy, joy is a great example. I recall the time when I was joyful and I attach as many senses as I can from that experience. But the first thing I need to do is set up my brain like something cool is about to happen, because your brain responds. And the easiest way I found to do that is simply I borrow this for Mel Robbins, count backwards by five. So it's like a rocket launch. So I will demonstrate right now, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I close my eyes tightly. I clench my fist. I tighten my core and I'm recalling a time when I was joyful, including as many senses as I can to the experience.

Mark Schulman:

And inevitably it always puts a huge smile on my face. When you smile, you're activating hundreds of muscles in your body and you're sending endorphins to your brain. I just recall the time I was thinking of Puerto Vallarta, to New Year's Eve, I was there with my family, with my then 11 year old daughter. And we snuck in the pool after hours and I could just feel the water was a little bit cold and I could hear the echoes of our laughter and our splashing, bouncing off the water. And of course my daughter was carrying me under the water, because that's what you do when you're 11, when you're with your dad.

Mark Schulman:

And by recalling that joyful moment, it's still there. Our minds do not time bind emotional experiences. So by recalling that joy, I am re-experiencing that joy. And then what I do is I immediately have everybody recall a joyful moment. I show them what to do and I get everybody doing it. And what I tell the audience is, I do this four or five times in the row until I have this, what I call shift, eat and grin on my face and it takes me 45 seconds to do that. I even had an experience when I did my keynote and then I had my meet and greet where we bring people on stage, and they get to sit behind the drums, and we take photos and I sign autographs.

Mark Schulman:

This woman came up to me and she was literally in tears and they were tears of joy, lit right after I had showed everybody how to create this attitude shift, she'd gotten an emergency call from her daughter. Her daughter has anxiety attacks. She takes medication. She couldn't find her medication. She was totally freaking out. The woman thought, "Well, I just learned this attitude shift with joy. I'll show it to my daughter." She showed it to her daughter and I'm not making this up. And she said, her daughter's anxiety basically, completely dropped out. It was so effective. Now, I'm not suggesting people not take medication, but if you work it, it works for you.

Mark Schulman:

That's an example of what I do and I may do my four or five shifts and that may last for a couple of hours. It might last the entire day, or if I'm having a challenging day, which I do, I might do it multiple times in a day, 12, 15, 20 times, to really set my attitude because I know that I have the power through shifting my attitude to change the outcomes in my mindset, which not only influences me but influences others. That's an exercise that I do.

Josh Linkner:

That's badass. And I love that the tactical approach-

Mark Schulman:

Thank you.

Josh Linkner:

... that we have, and we've all got someone to try it on. Whereas we're setting the attention of what we want our attitude to be, anchoring ourselves in a previous experience. Because as you mentioned, emotions aren't time bound, closing our eyes and getting in that groove and then of launching ourselves with the new attitude that we desire. I love that. Thank you for that practical tip.

Mark Schulman:

You're welcome.

Josh Linkner:

And so switching gears, you've performed with amazing musicians on some of the biggest stages in the world. There's a lot of egos, obviously in all those musicians, it's not just the folks on stage. There's hundreds of people off stage between security, and ticket sales, and the crew, and the sound team, and all that. Being a musician, and we often think of a musician as a soloist, you're singing or you're playing drums, but you're really collaborating obviously. And I know you talk a lot about collaboration. What can you share around the topic of collaboration?

Josh Linkner:

Because same with keynote speaking, keynote speaking looks like a single act, one person on a stage, but you got a team there. Maybe there's a bureau that booked you. Maybe there's folks that handled your logistics. Maybe there's the client. So like most things in life that appear to be a solo act, are generally a collaboration, what can we keynote speakers learn from the collaborative approaches that you've taken as a world touring rock star?

Mark Schulman:

Well, I'm very selfless when I'm even on stage and I'm very of service when I'm on stage. So the moment I get on stage, I think how can I be of service? And I often tell this story when I talk to IT people or behind the scenes people that might feel that lack of acknowledgement. I say, "Imagine what it's like being on stage in front of 50,000 people and not one set of eyes is looking at you." Because they're looking at the shiny brand, the shiny product. Because as you know, we are called the back line, the drums, the bass, the keyboards, the guitar, we are the back line. We are there to support the front line. We're there to support the shiny brand in front.

Mark Schulman:

But on the Pink tour as an example, we had 225 people. Everybody's job is absolutely critical. Without one of those people, the tour could not fire. When Pink's doing one of these death defying aerial stunts and she's singing, and she's parched, and she runs back to the stage, the girl who puts the water and the throat spray, and the tea on stage, right then and there she's the most important person on that stage. So most important person in that tour, or the second rigger whose job is just to monitor the motors in all of the aerial stunts, because if he didn't, the slightest anomaly, they'll cancel that aerial stunt. He's the most important guy when they're about to do that.

Mark Schulman:

The way that I look at it is everybody's job is absolutely critical. And everybody's job is as important as everybody else's job. Some may be more featured. Of course, Pink is really critical and we start with Pink and then it all filters down to us. But man, if I ain't back there playing drums, there are 225 people on the road. There's four people besides Pink that if we can't do the gig, the gig don't go on, means the drummer, me, the bass player. Well, I was a drummer, but I've left. But the drums, the bass, the keyboard player, who's the musical director and the guitar player because we are all critical to that performance. This show does not go on if we're not there, but everybody else is absolutely critical.

Mark Schulman:

That's the way I look at this whole concept of collaboration, that I can't do it without the agent. I can't do it without my manager. I can't do it without the stage manager when I get there or the guy that I've hired to book my drums. I always tell the client from the moment I land till the moment I leave, "I'm all yours, whatever you need." I just want to be totally of service at every moment. And I'm very egoless about it because I just think that ego is really ridiculous and has not gotten anybody that I know anywhere. You have to have enough ego to have pride in yourself, but above and beyond that, the rest of it is about how can I be of service to everybody else.

Josh Linkner:

As I was listening to you speak just now, Mark, it struck me that the rhythm and obviously a professional drummer have a lot of this. You've studied rhythm. You've given drum clinics and I wouldn't mind you giving us a mini, mini three minute clinic on rhythm as it relates to keynote speaking. As I was listening to you just now I noticed there were some quarter notes. There were some triplets, you hit a couple full, the whole notes. You played with the rhythm, just in your natural way of communicating. Are there any quick hit ideas that you can give to we, speakers on how we can use rhythm as part of our bag of tricks when delivering great content?

Mark Schulman:

That's a great question. See, you are challenging me. Well as a drummer, I always say timing is everything. And the order in which you plan your content is very, very critical. The timing is critical even in your execution. I'm not naturally a funny guy, so I've needed to really work on how I can create parts that are actually funny. And a lot of that is from timing and from pausing as an example. I'm always refining it. Here's a couple of examples for me. I talk about, "Oh, the first sold-out stadium tour we did with Pink was 30 to a 100,000 people per night. It was absolutely incredible. As a matter of fact, she holds the record for being the highest grossing artist in pop music history for one week."

Mark Schulman:

The people laugh and I go, "She outgrew Springsteen and U2, and even Ed Sheeran who has no band dancers or singers." That's an example of timing, like a little bit of pause. I even talk about that when I talk about, "I've given over 2,000 speeches in my day. When I get on a stage, every single word matters. Every bit of body language matters. Every bit of movement, language, all matters. Every pause, matters." I get everybody uncomfortable. It's incorporating bits of pausing, and timing, and finding at times where you can be humorous, and then I have very emotional times. I talk about when I saw my mama take her last breath before she died.

Mark Schulman:

And I realize that every millisecond is valuable. We can never get it back. And right then I see tears in people's eyes, so the timing, the pause, the inflection, because I'm very, very [inaudible 00:31:45]. I'm very excited on stage, but I've really worked on dynamic levels. We learn in music, it's all about dynamics. The greatest music, particularly in classical music and in jazz is when you get dynamic and even in pop music, when you bring it down, then you bring it up. The chorus hits really hard. Then you bring it down in the verse, so dynamics. These are all timing things that we learn. And so that's how I incorporate it.

Mark Schulman:

I'm very aware of the nuances of what I can do with the timing, and the pauses, and the inflections and the dynamics. All these apply to speaking, they apply to music. They apply to pitching. They apply to every conversation you're going to have with your colleagues, with your clients, with your kids, with your dog, I'd have to include the dog because, yeah.

Josh Linkner:

It's such great feedback. And I just would encourage people, when we're studying other speakers, when we're working on our game, it's easy to get caught up in the content because we're all storytellers, we love hearing. We disassociate with the delivery. I think one suggestion would be if you're studying a great keynote, maybe it's a TED Talk, whatever, to watch it and listen to the content, but then take a second pass and take that second pass and listen to it as a musician.

Josh Linkner:

When did they go high? When did they go low? What did they do? When did they speed up? When did they slow down? When did they use repetition? And so looking at the music of keynote speaking in addition to the content of keynote speaking, I think can be a trick that can help many of us get to the next level. And speaking, to getting to the next level, Mark, I wish we could chat all day.

Josh Linkner:

I can't wait to play some music with you, but as we round out our today's conversation, what advice do you have for speakers that are looking to get to the next level? Maybe somebody who's in the early years of their career. They're seeing some early momentum. They're the equivalent of getting paid to play at the Holiday Inn, not yet quite at the Pink arenas. What advice do you give to someone to help them up their game and reach that next level?

Mark Schulman:

It is really all about clocking the hours on stage. You need that experience. So any chance you get with a Rotary Club, with a Moose lodge, with a Masons or your church group, your temple, whatever, speak, speak, speak, speak, whether it's for free, whether it's for money, if you don't have an agent yet, there are a lot of resources online that you can join that match speakers. I was a member of SpeakerMatch originally as an example, and they're still in business. Before I had an agency and I got some gigs.

Mark Schulman:

So nothing replaces that time on stage because the time on stage, you really learn so much. From the response that you get, you start to immediately see what works and what doesn't work. That is the key, and getting the best video you can, as much as you can, watching the video and using that video to put together your sizzle reel. I found getting great video was one of the most challenging things at the beginning of my career.

Mark Schulman:

I don't know if you found that too, Josh, but I hired video crews and, "Oh, the video is great, but the audio doesn't work,' or, "Oh, you didn't really nail it, or he missed a part, or he ran in, or the camera ran out at that point of power, right at that critical moment." Literally, I think I hired four different video crews to try to get video until I got something decent. It really is the hours and it really is getting on stage, and getting the feedback.

Mark Schulman:

And you can even have your friends and your family and people you trust, do it in front of them a lot and say, "What do you think? Critique me, critique me." I love when other speakers come out, my friend Bruce Turkel just came out and saw one of my speeches and he gave me some great suggestions. Here I am, a refined guy working all the time and he gave me some great suggestions like, "Wow, thank you. That was awesome. I love it." We can all learn and be very open to learning and be very egoless about it. Just be simply open to improvement and remember you're there to be of service. That's all it's about. That's all it's about

Josh Linkner:

What a beautiful way to conclude the conversation. They've always said the best way to get to Carnegie Hall is practice, practice, practice. And certainly that's the case to the height of any career, and of course in our beloved business of keynote speaking. Mark, thank you for your time. Thank you for your generosity of spirit. Thank you for your energy and thank you for helping us all become a little bit more of a rock star. Thanks again, brother. We'll talk soon.

Mark Schulman:

Thanks Josh. Appreciate it. Cheers.

Josh Linkner:

What a fun conversation. And as I take a beat, well, sorry, I just couldn't resist. Mark shared a few big ideas that really resonated with me. Number one, we don't have to play music in stadiums to be rock stars. The rock star attitude is a deliberate choice that can be activated on demand with the right intention and technique.

Josh Linkner:

Number two, being a great performer is truly an act of service. Stars are born by showing others the way, helping them reach new heights. Where there are some diva exceptions, the most effective path to success is to pour your heart into elevating your clients and audiences, which in turn will help you reach the biggest stages.

Josh Linkner:

And number three, when we see a stunning performance in music, speaking, sports or business, we often think it's only about raw talent. Mark shows us that keynote speaking, just like learning to play the drums requires discipline, repetition and practice, practice, practice. As Mark transitions from touring drummer to full-time keynote speaker, I'm confident that he'll continue to delight audiences around the world. His rock star attitude is contagious and I'm grateful for both his friendship and the wisdom he shared with us today. I know we all are. Whether you're new to the game or a seasoned pro, here's to your next jaw dropping performance. Rock on.

Josh Linkner:

Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review.

Josh Linkner:

For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcasts.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. And a big thanks to our sponsor, ImpactEleven. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks for listening and here's to your mic drop moment.