Join us for an inspiring episode of Mic Drop as Josh Linkner sits down with Naren Aryal, CEO of Amplify Publishing, a trailblazer in the world of hybrid publishing. Discover the innovative strategies that have positioned Amplify at the forefront of the industry, offering a unique blend of traditional and self-publishing benefits. This conversation is packed with invaluable insights for thought leaders, speakers, and aspiring authors. Naren breaks down the pros and cons of various publishing models, shares essential advice on maximizing the ROI of your book, and reveals the secrets behind successful book marketing. Whether you're considering your first book or looking to refine your publishing strategy, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge to help you amplify your voice and expand your impact.
Naren Aryal is the CEO and co-founder of Amplify Publishing, a pioneer in hybrid publishing. With over 20 years of experience in the industry, Naren has overseen the publication of thousands of titles, specializing in non-fiction and thought leadership. He is passionate about helping authors navigate the evolving landscape of publishing, offering innovative solutions that combine the best aspects of traditional and self-publishing. Naren's expertise and dedication have made Amplify a trusted partner for authors looking to produce high-quality, impactful books.
Understanding Hybrid Publishing: Naren explains the concept of hybrid publishing, highlighting its position between traditional and self-publishing. He discusses the benefits, such as high-quality production and marketing support, and the challenges, like the necessity of author investment. This segment offers listeners a clear understanding of why hybrid publishing might be the right choice for them.
ROI and the Bigger Picture: Explore how to calculate the return on investment for your book beyond just sales. Naren emphasizes the broader impact of a book on speaking engagements, consulting opportunities, and overall brand visibility. This insight is crucial for authors and speakers looking to leverage their book as a central piece of their platform.
The Publishing Timeline: Naren outlines the timeline for hybrid publishing, from manuscript to market. He compares this to traditional publishing, highlighting the faster turnaround times. This practical advice helps aspiring authors understand what to expect and how to plan their book projects effectively.
Harnessing AI in Publishing: Delve into the role of AI in modern publishing. While AI can't replace the unique experiences and creativity of human authors, Naren discusses how it can aid in editing, marketing copy, and other supportive tasks. This forward-looking perspective prepares authors for the future of publishing.
Learn more about Naren Aryal and Amplify Publishing Group:
Learn more about Josh Linkner:
ABOUT MIC DROP:
Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.
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ABOUT THE HOST:
Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.
On the business front, he’s been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he’s helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He’s twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.
While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world’s foremost experts on innovation. Josh
is the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he’s on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.
Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com
SPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:
Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books.
Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.
Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.com
ABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:
From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees.
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As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown’s processes to launch today’s most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits.
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Naren Aryal:
It's not just about the book sales, it's about more stages, higher fees, consulting seminar, press visibility
Josh Linkner:
Today on Mic Drop. We welcome back Naren Ariel, CEO of Amplify Publishing. To deep dive into the evolving world of book publishing, Naren brings two decades of experience at the intersection of traditional and innovative publishing models. In today's episode, he sheds light on the distinct path, and author can take traditional self and hybrid publishing, discussing the unique benefits and challenges of each RINs insights into optimizing the publishing process. From organizing your thoughts into a one pager to understanding the importance of identifying your target market are game changers for anyone considering writing a book or if you're curious about the process, the episode is packed with advice that could make the difference between your ideas getting noticed by millions or simply lost in the shuffle.
Sponsorship:
The best keynotes start movements and incite change. And when you couple an electrifying speech with a project that fuels audience engagement, the result is lightning in a bottle. What I'm talking about here is a book that's where our friends at Amplify Publishing Group come in With 20 plus years of experience and ho owned by some of the industry's most renowned veterans, including bestselling author and global superstar, Mel Robbins, the team at Amplify knows not only how to produce a fantastic book, but how to leverage that book and make it work for you, your brand and your business. And Amplify not only knows books, they know the world of keynote speaking and thought leadership. Having published CEOs and executives, they take positioning into consideration at every step of the way. Whether you have a one line concept or a comprehensive outline, amplify is ready to work with you. Visit amplify publishing.com/mic drop to schedule an exploratory call and receive an exclusive editorial one pager tailored to your concept. That's amplify publishing.com/mic drop.
Naren Aryal:
Hey, Josh, great to be here.
Josh Linkner:
Well, so you are, I think, our first guest that we've had on the program twice, and I'm really excited to chat with you because there's so much going on in publishing. You're, you're obviously at the, at the, at the peak of the field, but for those that are unfamiliar with Amplify, give us the quick run on what is Amplify Publishing? Give us a sense of the company that you've started and lead.
Naren Aryal:
Sure. So Amplify Publishing. Uh, our focus is producing non-fiction titles, and we work primarily with thought leaders, a lot of keynote speakers, and we are one of the pioneers in this world called Hybrid Publishing. Now, what is hybrid publishing? Hybrid publishing occupies the space between traditional publishing on one hand and self-publishing on the other. And I'm sure we're gonna talk a lot about hybrid publishing, but that in a nutshell is, uh, who amplify is, and I'm of course CEO, uh, at Amplify.
Josh Linkner:
And so just to give a sense, how many, how long have you been around, how many books have you published over the years to give a sense of scale and volume? Sure.
Naren Aryal:
So we started 20 years, I can't believe it's been 20 years, but so, uh, obviously we've seen this industry evolve, change, uh, many things for the better, some for, um, you know, could be argued if, if they're for the better. Um, we publish on an annual basis about 250 titles, about a hundred titles in the thought leadership business space. And, you know, I've got a lot of friends that listen to this podcast, and I'm excited to, uh, talk specifically about that piece of our business.
Josh Linkner:
Awesome. And so you, you mentioned self-publishing, commercial publishing, and hybrid, you know, you, you mentioned hybrid's, the in between point. What are sort of the pros and cons? And you've said this many times that, that not, there's not a silver bullet like everyone's right for every person. What are the pros and cons why someone choose self-publishing versus hybrid versus commercial?
Naren Aryal:
Sure. Let's start with, uh, traditional publishing. Traditional publishing is what you think of when you think of the big houses in New York. And so the pros are they produce fantastic books. Uh, there's a lot of legitimacy behind their titles. These are pros in terms of editorial design, book packaging. Um, the cons are, there are a lot of gatekeepers that really, um, keep control over the content that goes through that channel. And what I mean by gatekeepers, I'm talking about literary agents who, if you want a traditional deal, you have to work through a literary agent. And then there's acquisitions folks at the big houses. And more recently, what's happened in the traditional world is there's been a lot of consolidation. So there just aren't that many channels and companies and houses that are open for the vast majority of authors. So pros, high quality product cons, limited availability to most authors.
And another con would be timeline. Um, it just takes longer to go through this process, uh, via traditional publishing. Now, on the other end of the spectrum is self-publishing, which I'm a big fan of self-publishing. Self-publishing means, um, you've written something, you can upload it on Amazon and you can be published this afternoon. And Amazon has been a big, uh, disruptor in this field. And, and I'm all for, uh, making this available to the masses. But what has also happened is there's been a glut of content that has come up through the self-publishing, um, pathway, meaning it's harder for really good content that is published through self-publishing to get the visibility that, uh, many authors want. Um, more and more authors are successful self-publishing than ever before, but there's more and more competition. And so what that's really created is this middle road for us and a few other companies that really value, um, excellent editorial, wonderful design and book packaging, uh, that rivals the big houses.
Um, and actually one thing that I think that we do really well is book marketing, um, which is, uh, not something most authors will get the benefit of if they go with a big house. One of the cons to, and I know I'm all over the place, but one of the cons to, um, uh, excuse me, hybrid publishing is there are, there are, there is an element of author investment, and so, uh, on one hand it's a con, but on the other hand, it could be a pro depending on how your, how your book fairs in the marketplace. I hope that's a good survey.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, and I'd, I'd love to double click on that one because, you know, so I, I've had the good fortune to, to publish commercially, uh, my next book I'm gonna publish, uh, hybrid, uh, specifically, uh, with you of course. And, and, and it's, it's partly, uh, because of time, so I'm gonna save a year or more getting it done more quickly, but it actually is also an economic advantage, and I don't mind sort of being the investor in my own project. I believe in my own work and, and, you know, I'm good with that, but, but once you cross a certain breakeven number of books, um, the economics are far in favor of someone publishing hybrid. Is that, is that true? Like, how should I, where, where do you think that cutoff point is and how should authors be thinking about it? Because obviously, you know, hybrid pays a much higher royalty rate than a traditional publisher.
Naren Aryal:
That's right. So in our case, our royalties are 85% for the author and 15% for us as a, as the distributor of the book. Um, in, in the event that authors sell directly, they're getting a hundred percent. And so that's also an option with hybrid that doesn't exist with traditional publishing. Uh, there is a, there is a break even point, um, and that's typically getting to a reprint, because what happens when you get to a reprint is some of these startup costs, like design, like editorial, like book marketing, go away. Then simply it's a component of, you know, printing more books and selling them.
Josh Linkner:
So what we're chatting, uh, economics, how, how should a, a keynote speaker, a thought leader think about the ROI in their book? And if you could not just think about the ROI in the, the actual book itself, but, but, but how that book will, will translate into dollars on speaking stage in, in other venues, et cetera. How should someone think about, again, if I'm gonna launch a new book project, how should I think about the overall return on investment of that, of that project?
Naren Aryal:
Great question. And so, um, the ROI is multifaceted. Obviously, everybody wants to sell as many books as they can and drive revenue and drive profit on the book sales. But for most of the people that we work with, it's not just about the book sales, it's about more stages, higher fees, consulting seminar, press visibility. And, and so it's, I always say the book should be a central piece of the platform, never the platform, unless you're of course, a huge runaway New York Times bestseller where you can then just count on book sales. So that's not the case for most of the authors that we work with. They understand that this is a, a piece of the puzzle, a very strategic piece of the puzzle that can make a big difference in their, call it, their, uh, thought leadership 360.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, I mean, said, said really simply if, if someone, you know, if you broke even on your book, let's say, but you got $2 million of speaking revenue and $4 million of consulting revenue because of the book, you obviously are, are farther ahead. So I think it's important that, uh, thought leaders are thinking about monetizing their expertise on a really a 360 basis and, and one facet leads to the next, leads to the next, they'll sort of compound on one another. Um, I'd love to actually drill in a little bit more too on timing. So walk us through the process from when a, an author has a basic concept until the book is published.
Naren Aryal:
Sure. So the big unknown in this question, Josh, is, uh, how long it's gonna take to get written. Now sometimes people come with, come to us with a fully baked written manuscript, which is fantastic. And so if that is the case, it typically takes two to three months to prepare the title to go to print, let's just say three months. And then the book is printed in another two months. So in five months, um, our hope is to have a physical book, and then we start the presale period, which is typically anywhere from three to four months. Uh, during that time, uh, you drive pre-sales, which is very important for launching a book, and it's also a great time to get media exposure for the, for the author and the book. So, um, our goal is to try to have a pub date in nine months. Sure. Sometimes it can be a little bit less and sometimes it can be a little bit longer, but that's our goal.
Josh Linkner:
And compared, let's call it two years on average in a commercial venue. Yeah, that's
Naren Aryal:
Right. It's two years in a commercial venue, and there's, you're also dealing with some unknowns, right? You have to first find the agent that's gonna pick you up, and once you, um, you know, hit that milestone, then it's up to the agent to actually sell the project. And so you could be two years in and then the answer might be, well, it just didn't work out. So, um, you know, you just need to understand all these things, and I'm not dissuading anybody from, uh, trying to get a traditional publishing deal. In fact, just the opposite. When people come to me and say, Hey, I've had this dream of Simon Schuster publishing my book. My advice is always, well, you need, you need to chase that dream, but do so with an understanding of what the market holds.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, totally. And it seems that things have changed a lot, you know, maybe that, that dream in the past, that that dream is based on something in the past, the idea that, oh, Simon Schuster's gonna, you know, whisk you off to fame and, and they're gonna market your book everywhere, and, you know, they're, they're single-handedly gonna make you a New York Times bestseller. I, my my observation is that traditional houses, some, some are very good. I'm not being negative, but like, they're not, they're not putting the, the advances are much smaller. They're market. Unless you're an a-list celebrity, you're, your marketing pushes much smaller. And so maybe some of the advantages of the past, the romanticism of a large publisher has, has, uh, diminished.
Naren Aryal:
I think that's, um, well said. And I think that even those that are published by the largest houses, many, um, will bring on, uh, PR folks and publicists, and so you just can't count on anyone marketing to the level that you the author can market. And that's true, again, whether it's Simon Schu Schuster, whether it's Amplify or whether you do it on your own,
Sponsorship:
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Josh Linkner:
You, you've mentioned in the past that if, if an author, a potential author has an idea on their mind, on their heart that a good first step is to create a one pager, can you just quickly give us a sense of what's the ideal structure of the one pager, and also why is that important?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah, I think it's important for a couple of reasons. Um, number one, you have to organize your thoughts, and ultimately you're trying to get to either a book proposal if you're trying to find an agent or an outline that can really serve as, uh, as your guide to when you're writing it. And so we've just found through trial and error, um, this is a simple first step because the first step is sometimes intimidating and we've got forms and we can, we can help anybody that's interested in doing this. Um, it includes five basic things. Uh, the first is the title and subtitle, and of course that's subject to change. Um, the second is a bio who you are and why you're the right person to write this. The third, and it's very important, is a target market. Um, you have to know who you're writing for, and two, otherwise, uh, that will create a lot of problems, not just during editorial process, but also during the marketing process.
And then the, uh, other piece is comp titles. Um, there are gonna be comp titles, and you should make sure that you know what those comp titles are. And I missed one. Number two actually is four or five sentence, uh, synopsis of what the book is. Um, if there's any frameworks that you're gonna employ in the book, this is a great place to put it in. So just those five things, a great way to start. And then you draft it, you send it to somebody you trust, like Josh or me, uh, we can look at it and provide some feedback, and then you just start the process. And, you know, sometimes we'll hear, I'm afraid somebody's gonna steal my idea, or, you know, I don't wanna let this out until I'm ready. I think that's just the wrong approach. I think the right approach is to start talking about it because you'll refine your pitch and you'll refine your ideas, um, to take the next steps.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, I mean, if you think about the amount of work and effort that goes into actually writing a book, like if you said, Hey, Josh, I got this killer idea. Like, oh, I'm gonna steal your idea now. I'm just gonna go commit a thousand hours and all this time and energy and money. Like, it's a pretty unlikely thing. So I agree with you. I think you're actually better off starting to spread the idea, getting feedback, and that's certainly been the path of many successful authors. Uh, I have a question for you. Would, do you ever see a manuscript or a one-pager and just know, like whole, like, wow, this is there, there needs to be work, like it's gotta be done, right? But I can just tell in advance this is gonna be a hit.
Naren Aryal:
Um, yes, and the converse is also true, right? Um, sometimes I'll see one that's, that is got a lot of holes, and I don't mind that, and we don't mind that because that, that is, uh, an invitation for a dialogue on how to improve the idea and execution. Now, on the flip side, um, I can see one and identify it having a lot of potential, um, simply because they have a clear understanding of who they're writing for, what the book is and exactly how to execute on their vision. Uh, as you said earlier, there's still a lot of work ahead of you, right? Thousands of hours writing the book, but at least you're starting from a place with a lot of, uh, clarity in terms of your mission. And
Josh Linkner:
I know that you, you don't have a cresta ball and you know, there, there's a lot of elements including luck and timing and everything else. But, but, but generally speaking, um, what are some of the main reasons why a book really takes off and what are some, what are some of the other reasons why a book might fizzle?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah, I think, I think, again, I keep going back to target market, um, writing and understanding who your target market is and writing content that is gonna be intensely interesting to these folks. You cannot write a general interest book. It just doesn't work. Nobody cares, right? And so being super focused on the value proposition that you are delivering, the differentiator that you're offering those two things, um, really will set you on the path toward having a successful book project. And that, by the way, Josh, that takes a ton of objectivity, objectivity that, uh, some people just, and self-awareness that some people, um, struggle
Josh Linkner:
With. Yeah, there's, there's no question about it. Um, and I wanna just keep kind of drilling into, we're spending some time now on sort of the elements of success or the elements of, of, of struggle. Um, when you think about some of the more successful authors today, like Adam Grant or James Claire or Brene Brown, Mel Robbins, who obviously is on your board, um, what are some of the commonalities that you see and, and what can inspiring authors kinda learn and, and model after, after those giants?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah. Uh, two letters ip. And if you think about Mel, I mean, the five second rule, is it simple? Yes. Is it amazing? Yes. Is it sticky? Yes. Uh, is it hers? Yes. And so something that is catchy but is backed with some substance, that's one thing right there that, um, you know, if you can, if you can infuse something that is uniquely yours derived from your experiences, uh, that nobody else can emulate, that's gold.
Josh Linkner:
It really applies. Same thing we would think about from a stage perspective. You know, you can have a really interesting original thought, but if you say it in a way that's hard to understand or hard to remember, you, you've, you're, you're missing part of the equation. Similarly, you can say something in a really simple way to remember that has no substance underneath it, and that also is a miss. And so it's the intersection, in my opinion, of, of having, you know, piece of, of IP a thought or, or an idea that's worth, that's got resonance, that's got truth to it, and being able to package it in a way that people can digest and and easily process you, you miss either of those. You're, you're probably not gonna have the breakaway hit that you would want. Would you agree?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah, I would. And you know, I, I think that's a formula for success, but there's, it, it's still alchemy a little bit, right? Like, you know, what I tell authors all the time is like, you know, you gotta have good content for sure. And we can predict to an extent, because sometimes I don't know if the content is gonna be, um, good and the reader is gonna love it so much that they have to tell everybody they know about it, or if it's good and it sort of stops right there, right? That's the piece we just don't know. And if I knew I'd bottle that up and, um, and, and, you know, make every book that we publish a runaway hit, but, um, that's, that's the, uh, the struggle a little bit.
Josh Linkner:
So while you, we don't know that for sure, I'm sure you've seen time and time again, some danger traps that are common, common pitfalls. You mentioned one writing a generalist book, another one you mentioned is sort of not, not being clear about who your target audience is. What are some of the other danger traps that authors should avoid?
Naren Aryal:
I think, um, a couple. So number one, design matters. Presentation matters, book packaging matters. Um, I talk about book packaging a lot, and for me, when I say book packaging, I mean title, subtitle, uh, cover design and cover elements. Um, really spend time on that because that is the piece that is gonna get somebody's attention in that split Second, you have to get somebody's attention, right? And so if you're not super thoughtful and, um, again, with a clear mind of the impression that you're trying to make and who you're trying to make that impression to, um, it's a missed opportunity. So packaging is, is one of those things that I think people don't spend enough time on.
Josh Linkner:
The old adage, don't judge a book by the cover is an adage in the first place, because people judge books by the cover, I mean, they by definition. And so, uh, obviously cover design is crucial. What are some of the other things, you know, as we kind of now start getting into marketing and such, obviously you guys do a lot of book marketing. Um, what are some of the best practices authors and publishers are doing today from a marketing perspective to deliver Bo to, to expand both, uh, visibility and volume?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah, great question. And so the, the goal here is to come up with a comprehensive program that, um, touches as many, uh, people in the target audience or where the target audience goes to find their information as possible. So I, I see a lot of mistakes being made on the front end when you're trying to come up with that list of people that are gonna care about your book. And when I say people, I mean outlets, media, podcasters, bloggers come up with a list that makes sense. Sure, everyone wants Oprah to cover their book. Uh, the likelihood of Oprah covering your book is, and I don't care how how well done it is, is is pretty remote, so just make sure that that list of a hundred or 200 people is thought really well, you thought about it. Um, and all the items on, on the, all the people and organizations that are on the list are there for a reason and have some probability of a return.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, that's really good feedback. Um, and are you seeing, uh, I, I mean obviously everyone's talking about AI and advanced tech and it's changing every aspect of life. Certainly it will have an impact in the publishing industry. And for authors, what role are you seeing AI playing in, in not only the creation and publishing a book, but also the marketing and promotion of books?
Naren Aryal:
Okay, so I'm here to tell you that, uh, at least where AI stands to today, it's not gonna replace a good old fashioned thought leader author. Um, and the reason is simply because of the experiences that you've got, Josh, uh, you're a great example. Um, and, and it can never emulate that. And if it does it at some point in the future, I'll be pleasantly surprised, but we're not there today. So, um, AI books, I've seen them and many times they read like a Wikipedia page, and so nobody wants that, right? Mm-Hmm, , I think you'd feel terrible if you bought something like that, and it was, you know, very surface level. However, there are places for AI in the world of publishing, and I'll give you some examples. Number one, in the editing phase, um, you know, we published a lot of books and there's always that pesky handful of, um, typos that that crop into first edition books.
And so we're using, and you know, you've probably come across that Josh yourself in, in one of your books. And, and so we're using AI to make sure that, uh, none of those pesky little errors sleep, ski, uh, sort of seep into the first edition of the book. We're using AI for, uh, marketing copy. Um, we're using AI for, uh, testimonials. And so, you know, marketing, uh, testimonials, um, cover copy a little bit that requires to be tweaked. It requires some tweaking. Um, sometimes we'll mess around with AI generated covers. They never are quite right. Um, so it requires some, uh, professional designers to just go in and change things, but never on the book itself.
Josh Linkner:
I think that's good in, in many professions, at least for now, uh, thinking of AI as a good co-pilot to help with some of the more, uh, remedial tasks. So to allow the, the, the professional to, to take on higher challenges, you know, more, more cerebral opportunities. And it seems like writing is a perfect example of that, you know, might be helpful with a little bit of research, might be helpful with, uh, you know, copy editing, so that comma's in the right spot, but much less so in terms of the real creative process about bringing original thoughts and ideas to the world.
Naren Aryal:
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Josh Linkner:
What other, uh, emerging trends do you see in, in the publishing world? I mean, as you kind of look in your crystal ball, I know none of us has a perfect one, but how do you think things are changing and, and what do you think the world of publishing is gonna look like five years from now?
Naren Aryal:
Great question. So, um, I will tell you one thing that, uh, was predicted five to 10 years ago is the demise of the book as a form of content, maybe 20 years ago. Um, I, I'm here to report that that just hasn't happened. In fact, uh, book sales have increased since the pandemic by 10% year over year. I think this past year they're down a couple points, but that's after increasing 20%. Um, we're seeing, um, non-traditional pathways continue to emerge and thrive. Um, just recently, if you follow the news, uh, there's a, um, a new house called Authors Equity that was started by a former CEO of Penguin Random House and current member of Simon Schuster's board. So there's a realization in the world of books right now that, uh, there needs to be diversification in terms of pathways to publishing. I I expect that to continue as well.
Josh Linkner:
Uh, and you're seeing like any types of interactive media more or shorter formats or different design, like, are there any, in addition to the big picture stuff, are there any more tactical shifts that you're, you're seeing are really either emerging or, or more popular these days than, than were just a few years back?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah. I will tell you that a few years back, we were seeing much shorter books like, you know, call it a hundred pages. Um, it's actually crept back up to the 150 pages on the short end because there's a real balance between, uh, you know, delivering brevity, a short book and delivering value, right? And so, um, you know, what was popular a few years back is the super short books, but now I'm seeing, you know, about 150, um, pages is probably the right length, uh, in terms of word count. We're seeing a lot of 45 and 50,000 word books, um, which is probably the sweet spot in terms of where you want to be.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah. Speaking of bringing a, a book to life, uh, I was chatting with, um, Tiffany Bova, who is, uh, is a friend of mine, and she, she's been on, on on Mic drop, very, very talented author and, and, uh, speaker. And she was saying that, you know, her natural instinct isn't so much, um, writing, it's speaking. I mean, she finds herself to be a, an orator more than a, you know, an at least a minor writer. And so she was telling me that she actually got started writing books by first getting a transcript of her speech. Uh, I know that's not the right move for everybody, but what are your thoughts on using a keynote as a basis at least, or as a starting point to, to getting your thoughts organized for a book?
Naren Aryal:
I think that's a great idea, and it's a good starting point. Um, it turns out the average 45 minute keynote is about 7,500 words. I mean, you can tell me, does that sound right to you?
Josh Linkner:
Sounds right, yeah.
Naren Aryal:
And so if you think about the average book, I just said 50,000 words, um, you know, it's a great place to start. It requires you to organize your thoughts and, um, you know, you pair that with something like a one pager and all of a sudden you're on your way. Now, the, the book itself is of course, you know, 50,000, and it affords you the opportunity to bring in other people's perspectives and to really do a deep dive in terms of, uh, your mastery and to display your mastery of, of a subject matter. And, and, you know, I'll use you as an example, Josh. I think there are other people that speak on the, on the topic of innovation, but I can tell you that there's probably only a handful of people that could have written your last book, big Little Breakthroughs. And so again, that's the difference between, that's why the form of the, the book form will never really go away, in my view.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, even in a, in a keynote, you know, there, there's an element of of delivery that's compelling. And I, I love keynotes of course, but yeah, I mean, you have a book, you really can wrestle a topic to the ground. You're not, you're not limited in word count in the same way you would be in a, in a 60 minute keynote and, uh, and you, you know, I ideally, if you're putting your name on something, it's gonna be in the Library of Congress. You want it to be a definitive work. I mean, you know, maybe it's not gonna be a masterpiece. Hopefully it is. But, but at least you've, you've really taken the time to be thorough and you've have depth and, and, and halfed around, around the subject matter that you've chosen, uh, to write about. Um, so speaking of, of books that, and
Naren Aryal:
One, one last, one last point on that, I mean, just, just think about a, a book launch and a release is a moment in time where you're putting forth a, a a substantive piece of work. It is a reason to go to the media or the bod the podcasters or the bloggers or the TV or the bureaus, right? It's an, it's an opportunity to talk about something new.
Josh Linkner:
That's exactly right. Speaking of that, you know, when you think about something new, are there any projects either that you've just launched or, or about to launch that you're really especially excited about? I know you're excited about all your books, of course, it's like you're excited about all your kids or whatever, but are there any ones that are really lighting you up that you're just, I can't wait, you know, to tell you about this particular project?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah, so within the Impact 11 community, of course, we've, uh, launched a few recently, Ryan Estes book, uh, which is great fun to work on. Uh, ORs has, uh, come out with his book, which has been, um, incredibly successful, and he is done a really good job of promoting it. Uh, Patricia Bath's book is coming out, um, in terms of non-Impact 11, and I'm sorry if I'm forgetting anybody, but, uh, you know, we've got more coming later this year in terms of non-Impact 11 books. Um, we just launched the Autobiography of Basketball Star Chris Weber. Now I know Josh, I've talked you about this for seeming seemingly four or five years. I met Chris 11 years ago, and we started working on this book Wow. 11 years ago. And it's just coming out now, and we're doing some really cool things with it, um, like direct to consumer, like, um, a special edition, a nice box where he is putting, uh, merch and memorabilia, uh, for, you know, 2000 copies. So that's one of the things that we can really do well, is really customize both the, the launch, the distribution, and the product itself. And so I'm super, obviously excited about that one.
Josh Linkner:
That's awesome. Love it. And, um, you know, just sort of round out our conversation today, I'm curious, what, what's driving you, I mean, obviously you're run a business, so all of us that run businesses, there's an economic, you know, reward, but, but I know this personal to you, I mean, you are, you're deeply immersed in the, in the field. It, it, it lights you up even if you, outside of the economics of it. What, what fires you up about this industry? Why, why do books matter to you and why should they matter to everybody else?
Naren Aryal:
Yeah, this is personal for me. Um, I started this company 20 years ago because my daughter wanted a children's book. And so I didn't set out to start a publishing company and 20 years later have it be a, a thriving, um, game changing organization. The fact that we've landed here is fantastic, and I've got a lot of people to thank, um, for all their contributions along the way. But what really began this journey was something, um, that was close to my heart, wanting to create something and impact lives. And we were able to do that with the very first book that we produced. And so when I talked to an author, um, I can't help but think about my journey and, uh, understand exactly where that author is coming from. So that's what drives me.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, I mean, words and ideas have moved civilization since the beginning of time. I mean, that, that's what happens. And, and, you know, an idea can spread. It doesn't, it's not a finite item where, where one person gets it and the other person loses it. Ideas spread and, and we all benefit from it. And so for you to be in the business of spreading words and ideas that matter that can amplify, uh, people's lives and, and businesses has gotta be, uh, intrinsically very rewarding. And, and I know we're all grateful for, for your hard work and leadership in the industry. Um, so Naron, before we say goodbye, any, any final thoughts or pieces of advice for the aspiring author? Maybe they're, they're considering their first book, and I know it can feel like a daunting task. What, what, what words of wisdom would you share to the author that's considering, uh, publishing his or her first book?
Naren Aryal:
Well, I think the first thing is, um, you know, consider talking to somebody about it. And I'm happy to field inquiries and questions, and I've got a team here as well that, that does just that. Um, and, you know, once you talk to somebody that's got a little more experience, particularly if this is your first book, uh, they can guide you and, and, and tell you both what's possible and what the pit pitfalls are. And of course, we're in that business. And so we'd love to have those conversations.
Josh Linkner:
Love it. Well, Marron, thanks for your time today. Thanks for your leadership and thanks for helping us all amplify our big ideas.
Naren Aryal:
All right, thanks Josh.
Josh Linkner:
As I wrap today's conversation with Narin, I'm reminded how strategic the publishing process really must be, if you're gonna do it right, Darrin's breakdown of the publishing models and his tips for aspiring authors underscore the importance of aligning our publishing choice and our personal professional goals. I loved when Narin emphasized the significance of knowing your target audience and crafting content that resonates deeply, specifically with that audience. It's a lesson we can all draw from, and it applies far beyond the realm of book publishing. Absolutely. It applies to keynote stages. One thing that really stood out to me was Neuron's perspective on hybrid publishing. The idea of having more control and potentially a better financial result, uh, really got, gets you thinking. And I think as the new world of publishing continues to grow, it's an important choice to consider. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Mic Drop. I hope NE's insights and his process will inspire you to consider how to bring your best ideas and share them with the world, whether it's in written format or other mediums. And remember, often the smallest details like a compelling cover or a well-defined target market can have a massive impact on your success.
Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit mic drop podcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening. And here's to your next mic drop moment.