Mic Drop

Rule Breaking & Industry Dominating (ft. Seth Mattison)

Episode Summary

In our conversation this week, Seth Mattison shares his views on how he used a non-traditional approach to enter the speaking business and gain credibility, why he deliberately violated one of the unwritten rules of the business and enjoyed massive success where others have failed, his client activation process to land and grow key client relationships, and how he built his expertise and body of work while getting paid top dollar at the same time.

Episode Notes

Rule Breaking & Industry Dominating (ft. Seth Mattison)

Seth Mattison shares the unconventional ways he’s built an awe-inspiring career— including breaking a supposedly unbreakable rule

OPENING QUOTE:

“I don't come from a family with any resources, and so I was literally donating blood platelets twice a week to pull together an extra 200 or 300 bucks for the month to be able to make a car payment, to be able to pay rent, to do what was necessary. Trust me when I tell you, as you make it through that valley of darkness, there is light on the other side.”

-Seth Mattison

GUEST BIO:

Seth has been one of the most successful speakers on the circuit over the last decade, and continues to inspire audiences around the world. He's the founder and CEO of FutureSite Labs, a research and training company that's focused on the future of work.

Links

[7:41] - Multiple Paths to the Same Goal

How different speakers find their way into the industry

Seth shares how there are many ways into the business. While many of his colleagues came through success in the business world, Seth began by focusing on deep subject matter expertise and broke in that way. Don’t feel as if you have to follow the path of your idols to break in— follow your own path.

[10:46] - The Power of the Pivot

The rare successful subject pivot and the lessons it teaches

Seth did something almost no successful speaker can manage— he pivoted his message to something entirely different, and not only kept succeeding but supercharged his career beyond anything he’d achieved before. How? By taking the lessons he learned from his original focus and applying them to a new area without missing a step.

[14:27] - Building Credibility, Brick by Brick

How Seth established himself as a thought leader

Seth is a charismatic presence, but beneath it all is a diligent researcher. He understands that the only way to build credibility is through true understanding, so he conducts dozens of interviews before keynote talks and becomes fluent in the language of an industry before he steps up on stage and speaks to that industry. That’s how credibility is made.

[22:44] - The Cone of Possibilities

Seeing the future of speaking through a unique lens

The Cone of Possibilities is an existing concept that Seth has used to help guide both his career and his audiences. It represents our view of the future— in the near future, the potential different possibilities are narrow. Your life tomorrow will likely look a lot like your life today. But as you go further into the future, more and more variables make more outcomes possible.

[28:36] - Don’t Go It Alone

Seth’s simple yet profound advice for anyone embarking on a speaking career

A keynote speaker is alone when they stand on a stage, but they’re never alone on the path that gets them there. Great partners, mentors, and team members can accelerate your career 10x— and make it all worthwhile along the way.

RESOURCES:

Follow Seth:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by 3 Ring Circus.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

ABOUT eSPEAKERS:

When the perfect speaker is in front of the right audience, a kind of magic happens where organizations and individuals improve in substantial, long-term ways. eSpeakers exists to make this happen more often.

eSpeakers is where the speaking industry does business on the web. Speakers, speaker managers, associations, and bureaus use our tools to organize, promote and grow successful businesses. Event organizers think of eSpeakers first when they want to hire speakers for their meetings or events.

The eSpeakers Marketplace technology lets us and our partner directories help meeting professionals all over the world connect directly with speakers for great engagements.

Thousands of successful speakers, trainers, and coaches use eSpeakers to build their businesses and manage their calendars. Thousands of event organizers use our directories every day to find and hire speakers. Our tools are built for speakers, by speakers, to do things that only purpose-built systems can.

Learn more at: eSpeakers.com

Episode Transcription

Seth Mattison:

I don't come from a family with any resources, and so I was literally donating blood platelets twice a week to pull together an extra 2, 300 bucks for the month to be able to make a car payment, to be able to pay rent, to do what was necessary. Trust me when I tell you, as you make it through that valley of darkness, there is light on the other side.

Josh Linkner:

Welcome to Mic Drop, podcast for professional speakers. We cover the ins and outs of the business, helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages at higher fees. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by eSpeakers. I'm your host Josh Linkner. Get ready for some inspiring Mic Drop moments together.

Josh Linkner:

Today's show is sponsored by 3 Ring Circus, the industry's top training and development program for professional speakers. They've helped hundreds of speakers launch or scale their speaking business, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. If you are looking to take your speaking business to the next level, they'll simply help you get there faster. To learn more and schedule a free 30 minute consultation, visit 3ringcircus.com/micdrop. That's 3, the number 3ringcircus.com/micdrop. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. If you want more audiences and organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use eSpeakers to manage and grow their business. When you use eSpeakers, you'll feel confident about your business, package yourself up for success, and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30-day trial, visit eSpeakers.com/micdrop. That's eSpeakers.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

On today's show, I sit down with one of my favorite trailblazers, Seth Mattison. Seth has been one of the most successful speakers on the circuit over the last decade, and continues to inspire audiences around the world. He's the founder and CEO of FutureSite Labs, a research and training company that's focused on the future of work. In our conversation today, Seth shares his views on how he used a non-traditional approach to enter the speaking business and gain credibility, why he deliberately violated one of the unwritten rules of the business and enjoyed massive success where others have failed, his client activation process to land and grow key client relationships, and how he built his expertise and body of work while getting paid top dollar at the same time. Seth also shares a really cool model for envisioning the future called the cone of possibilities, and get this, he even shares this take on competing with robots and digital avatars for keynote speeches. On today's episode, pearls of wisdom fly like left hooks at a boxing match direct from the pound-for-pound champion himself. Thought leader, keynote speaker, humanitarian. Seth Mattison, welcome to Mic Drop.

Seth Mattison:

Josh, thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Josh Linkner:

So Seth, you and I have known each other for a long time in full disclosure, and I'm honored really to be your business partner these days, but you are one of the highest level speakers out there on the circuit. You are admired by bureaus and audiences and clients alike, but before we get into where you are now, take us back a little bit. Give us a sense of how you entered the speaking business. What were those early days like?

Seth Mattison:

Well, it's a great question, and I'm always fascinated by that question, as we hear from other thought leaders and speakers as well, because there are so many unique paths into this business. For me, I came out of school and went into management consulting, and had a chance to work for a firm that was focused on leadership development, executive alignment, culture change work, people stuff. So at a very early stage in my career, I got exposure into the dynamics of leadership and people, and how do you create alignment, and as people move through change, where does tension occur? But of course, at that stage in my career, our clients would often look at me like, what in the world do you know about any of these themes? You're 23, 24 years old. So to find a connection point, I simply would start asking them questions about their younger workforce.

Seth Mattison:

This is in the mid two thousands as the millennial "Gen Y generation" was starting to emerge. As you can imagine, all of this pain just came pouring out of them and it was... The quality of your questions equal the quality of your outcome with clients. So it was like these questions started to really get them to open up and share on a deeper level with me. They did that because it was like it was the one thing that I could be an expert on. I positioned myself as their inside guy to understanding that shift, and as I was looking in the marketplace, I see Peter Sheahan who is now one of our business partners, which is pretty interesting. I had just published a book on this subject.

Seth Mattison:

So it was becoming possible in my mind to be able to do research, and speak, and be an authority figure at a very young age. So it was like, if he could do it and a few others, I could do it as well. So the consulting firm gave me this essentially place to do my own research, start to study the subject. I got very lucky. I found that one of the preeminent authors and thought leaders on the subject of generational theory was also based in Minneapolis, Minnesota of all places, which is where I was from, Minnesota. His name is David Stillman, his business partner, Lynne Lancaster. They wrote a bestseller back in 2003 called When Generations Collide. They were some of the early thought leaders on the subject, and when I found out they're there as well, and they're speaking at a high level, I reached out to the network and I found someone who knew someone who could get an introduction.

Seth Mattison:

It took a couple of months Josh, to stay on David, to actually get him to have coffee with me. When we finally sat down, I just hit him with all of my ideas of how I could support their business, and I want to speak, and I could do this, and I'll work for free. I totally came at them from this place of I will do anything for an opportunity to be able to support you. I'll basically work for free, because I saw them as an entry point in a couple of ways to apprentice underneath these really bestselling authors and thought leaders, and to learn the business of speaking. So at first, David was like, "I don't have a role for you today, but HarperCollins did just greenlight our new book on millennials. Maybe there's a role for you there." So it took about another year to put that deal together. We finally started, and we worked together for five years, and it was the perfect training ground to learn the business, understand research, learning how to work with bureaus. They had built this beautiful reputation with the bureau industry.

Seth Mattison:

So I think I'll come to a close on this question and come back to you. But what's interesting to me about my own story when I look at it in reflection, is that there are a lot of ways into this business. Some of our colleagues, yourself included, come out of being in business, creating a track record, selling a company, working for an organization, developing over 10, 20 years that body of knowledge. I picked a subject matter that I was close to because of my age, threw myself into the research, and then partnered with existing speakers. I do think there's an interesting opportunity, and we should talk about it, of ways to be able to break through. All of us who are speaking, one of the ways you create scale is if you can replicate yourself. So if you're a young speaker who's trying, and maybe you've picked a subject matter lane and you're looking at someone who's farther ahead, is there a way you could help support their growth while simultaneously learning the business from you? I think it's an interesting path that maybe not everyone explores.

Josh Linkner:

I love it, Seth. So that apprentice model... And you're right, there are a lot of ways to enter the business, and you worked with what you had. You didn't sell the business at that point or anything, but you worked with what you had. The other thing that's really noticeable to me is your hunger. You're like, I'll do whatever it takes. You were open-minded, open heart. You went after it, and further, we always look at these overnight successes. We can look at you as-

Josh Linkner:

... after it, and further, we always look at these overnight successes. We can look at you as this incredible top speaker. And you mentioned you worked on that for five years before you even got going. So, it really is a testament to your fortitude, your persistence, and your passion for the game, so I really admire that.

Seth Mattison:

I appreciate that, Josh. Just to put an exclamation point on that because wherever people are at on their journey right now, if I go back to 2008 when I was talking to David and Lynn... September of 2008, the market crashed and the bottom fell out of the speaking business. That was right when we were starting, and I basically had to be willing to work for free. Now I don't come from a family with any resources, so I was literally donating blood platelets twice a week to pull together an extra 2-300 bucks for the month to be able to make a car payment, to be able to pay rent, to do what was necessary.

Seth Mattison:

And I don't say that for some honor. I just say it, that wherever you're at on your journey, if you're grinding right now and you're wondering, is it worth the sacrifice? Trust me when I tell you, as you make it through that valley of darkness, there is light on the other side, but you've got to really believe and commit to this vision that you have for yourself. Don't let anyone convince you that you can't have this, because you can. You absolutely can.

Josh Linkner:

Amazing. And you and I have talked about it. The market is large. It's about a $4 billion market just in North America alone. And there's plenty of room for speakers on all topics at all levels, so I really appreciate you saying that, providing the encouragement. So, Seth, the prevailing wisdom in the speaking industry is you pick your lane and damn it, you stay in that lane. Like I speak on innovation and creativity. I have background in other stuff. I probably could speak about other stuff, but I don't. I've written four books, same topic. That's me.

Seth Mattison:

Yep.

Josh Linkner:

But you've done something really tough and I would love to have your thoughts on it. You started out, as you point out, generations, millennial, that type of thing. And you really have shifted over the years. And now you're obviously one of the top speakers in future of work. Certainly there is some connection point. It's not like going from Chinese food to life insurance, but-

Seth Mattison:

You're right.

Josh Linkner:

... at the same time, there was a shift. And that's a hard thing to do. It's sort of the opposite of conventional wisdom. Yet, you've had remarkable success. Can you help us understand? How did that pivot happen? What was your thought process and what other advice would you have for someone that really does want to shift to a different lane?

Seth Mattison:

Appreciate the question because it was a major inflection point in my career. So, while I was sort of immersing myself in the generations conversation, I was interested in it. I took that path because I saw it as an opportunity and an entry point into the business because of my age, exactly to your point of you've got to work with what you have available to you. And that's what I had available to me. But what I understood, as we sort of got into that body of research, was that in studying generations in youth is really just a subversive way to think about change. Period, full stop. That's what you're looking at. These evolving expectations, values, beliefs, and you see how it impacts organizations. And so my heart always felt called and compelled to talk about things beyond just how do millennials get along with boomers and looking at Gen Z now, but you're right of like being able to convince the marketplace that you're credible and get them off of this thing that they've known you as, because the longer you're in that lane...

Seth Mattison:

And it was a little bit of a challenge in the beginning, from the standpoint of, I told the marketplace starting in 2013, "We're shifting the brand, we're coming out, I'm studying, we're helping leaders prepare for the future of work. We're under this umbrella." And you're right. It's not a far leap. And I had a compelling story around it to help them understand why, but people know you in a box. And so it took a long time for people to stop just reaching out and being like they want a generations program, they want a millennial program, and get them to think of me when it was a leadership program. And it was about an organization navigating transformation and thinking about how they'd structure themselves in this new world of work. It took a couple of years of consistent messaging and communication out into the marketplace.

Seth Mattison:

And so, a couple of things. One, you got to listen to your heart. If you're feeling called and compelled, but you got to pay attention to how you're feeling. You pick a lane and people do want you to do that so they can understand. They want to be able, especially with bureaus, they're trying to hold a couple hundred people in their mind. They need to think Josh, innovation, Ryan, sales and leadership, Seth, future of work, Pete, strategy. They want some of that. And then as they build that relationship with you, they understand it's actually got some breadth there. He could probably go a couple of different ways. They understand your personality. So, pay attention to what you feel called to and as you evolve that, you just have to be clear into the marketplace and commit to that messaging as you pivot into that next thing with real credibility.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. Beautifully said. So on that point, how did you gain the credibility? Can you maybe just give us a high level view of you went from one thing, which you became an expert in, to another. Now you're starting at a big mountain. Like if I were to go pursue a totally different topic area, I'm starting to a degree from scratch. Maybe a little bit of a head start, but how did you go about that? Can you just give us a sense of how you became an expert in this new category, this new future of work?

Seth Mattison:

Great, great, great, great question. You know, part of it did come back to the idea of studying youth was a subversive way to think about change. Having been looking at millennials and Gen Z sort of gave me perspective. Now, 5, 10 years later, the trends that we're seeing that COVID has accelerated, were things we were talking about 15 years ago. And so part of that story helped establish some credibility.

Seth Mattison:

But then it was doing research projects with clients. It was building that client roster and those testimonials where I could have a testimonial from a CHRO specifically saying, "Seth really helped us think about how we evolve and move into this new world of work." Boom. So I've got credibility pointing back to this new subject matter that I'm talking about. And then when we wrote The War At Work, that really was a sort of a manifestation of our perspective and thought leadership specifically. A specific point of view on how the world of work was changing that really, I think, started to cement in people's minds, like, "Okay, this is where Seth is playing right now. We see the client roster that he's building."

Seth Mattison:

And, you're right, this is a game of you work with what you have while you have it. And so in the beginning, you don't have a real... You get just enough, you put that together. The same with your testimonials and every chance you get to make it a little bit better, but there is an art in there of making yourself appear larger than you are, because how do you get the first one to really believe? And so that's where I think partnering with people like you and us who understand that, to say, "We know what that brand needs to look and feel like. We know what the messaging needs to look like," so that you look larger than you are. Now, the opportunity to cross that gap is when you get your shot, you have to deliver. And I think we've all had those moments at this stage of our game, where you get that first big stage, that first big 2-, 3-, 4-, 5,000 person audience. You have to meet that moment with everything to capitalize on the opportunity and if you do, now you're off to the races.

Josh Linkner:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions in annual income while driving massive impact on audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow route with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you are serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at 3 Ring Circus, they can help. From optimizing your marketing and business efforts to crafting your ideal positioning, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills. 3 Ring Circus is the only speaker training and development program run by current high level speakers at the top of their field. That's why the major bureaus like Washington Speakers Bureau, Premier Speakers, Speak Inc., Executive Speakers, Harry Walker Agency, Kepler, Gotham Artists, and GDA all endorse and participate in 3 Ring Circus. From interactive boot camps to one-on-one coaching, 3 Ring Circus will help you reach your full potential in the speaking biz and to get there faster. For a free 30 minute consultation, visit 3ringcircus.com/mic-drop. That's 3ringcircus.com/mic-drop.

Josh Linkner:

Seth, we talked about how you prepared to enter this new lane. But you're right, when you have that shot, you got to really deliver. And I know just from you and I have talked about this, you do a lot of preparation...

Josh Linkner:

... really deliver. And I know just from you and I have talked about this, you do a lot of preparation for each engagement, even now after doing hundreds and hundreds of them. Can you maybe walk us through your preparation regimen? How do you prepare for that big moment so that you're stacking the deck in your favor so that you can truly deliver?

Seth Mattison:

Yeah, it's a great question. So I stole, so Ryan [inaudible 00:18:22] who you've had on this show has been a dear friend. We've been in the trenches together from the very beginning. We both around that 2008 timeframe were trying to break in. And so I've learned a lot of great strategy from Ryan in this process. And one of the things I picked up from him years ago was what we call our client activation process, branding everything, and really being strategic about how we engage a client on the front end.

Seth Mattison:

And because I didn't come out of 20 years of experience in the field, one of the ways that I could keep a pulse on how things were changing was to do more deep discovery work with clients on the front end. And so what that really looked like was just qualitative and quantitative research. I would do, in the early days, anywhere from a half a dozen to up to a dozen interviews with executives, team members at different levels within the organization who don't always have the time to do that today, or we've got other people that will help support that on the team do those interviews give us briefings, but I do the interviews and then we'd either deploy a survey internally that we would lead or we'd get their data.

Seth Mattison:

And in doing that, every one of those engagements, not only was I now delivering for the client, but I was learning. It was field research for me and I'm discovering best practices. Now, you're not always in a situation where I can share those client names, right, because of confidentiality and NDAs, but the knowledge is still now in my mind and I can reference those industries at a high level. And so it did a couple of things for me, one, to your point of how did you prepare? It helped with the customization, which everybody talks about and everybody wants, and there is a magic line as you do more and more events of how much can you customize.

Seth Mattison:

But I think the little secret in this business is it doesn't take much to impress if you are genuine, you are genuinely interested and you're authentic in your communication. If you really spent a little bit of time to climb into that audience's mind and world. You know enough to be dangerous about their industry and you don't try to project or pretend that you are the full blown expert, but man, if you just have a little bit of empathy for what they're going through, a little bit of the language that they use, you've talked to a few of the people and can reference their names.

Seth Mattison:

People are blown away that you took the time. And so it gives you credibility. It makes the moment more impactful when you're delivering and your knowledge is growing as you go. So if you're not coming out of 20 years of experience, and quite frankly, even if you have, and Josh, you can attest to this, yes, there's knowledge that is, it will sustain you throughout your life, but the world of work is changing so fast today that if you're not keeping a pulse, the world is different today than it was 20 months ago. When I see data that's rolled up that says 2017, 2018, 2019, if it has to do with employee engagement perspective, those numbers have radically shifted in the last 20 months. So technically I think we all really need to try to keep a pulse and be doing this front end work.

Josh Linkner:

Couldn't agree more. And I think it's funny, you talk about the future of work. Think about the future of speaking for a second. So the previous world of speaking maybe was you memorize your speech, you have your generic talk, you step on there like a wind up doll and recite your lines. That's not what clients want. Clients want deep customization. They want to hear the language of their industry. And again, if you're speaking to a group of orthopedic surgeons, they're not expecting you to become an orthopedic surgeon.

Seth Mattison:

That's right.

Josh Linkner:

But they want you to understand their world and they want to maybe see an example or two from healthcare as opposed to every example from outside of their field. So I think the way that you customize, even though you may not customize every minute of that presentation, it feels totally custom.

Josh Linkner:

And the fact that you're immersing yourself in their world. The other thing I just want to echo, which I thought was so smart is that you're not only doing it for their benefit, you're doing it for your own. And I know you're coming from a place of service and heart because you really do care about them, but the byproduct, as a byproduct, you're building your own expertise, your own body of work. And now you're that much more prepared for the next engagement. So that's really, really smart.

Seth Mattison:

Appreciate that.

Josh Linkner:

So speaking the future of work, but also this future of speaking, I'm sure you've thought this quite a bit, someone who studies the future and where things are headed, where's the future of the speaking industry headed? What are you excited about? What are you concerned about?

Seth Mattison:

It's a great question. And so I'm going to give people a really practical tool that we use is while I don't brand myself a futurist, we certainly are embodying some of those principles and people often think that futurists are predicting the future, but that's not what futurists do. What futurists do is they help us not be surprised by the future. And they do that by looking out and looking at possible future scenarios. And so one of the tools that I used in the early days of the pandemic that helped me evolve I think more quickly was a tool called the Cone of Possibilities. And I don't know if anybody's talked about that on this podcast, but it's something that's been helpful for me. So the Cone of Possibilities, simple tool, you think about a cone, the part of the cone closest to your eyes, the smallest, and then it expands out as you look farther out.

Seth Mattison:

And that part closest to your eye represents the present moment, right? It's the moment of now. And since that's the small end, it represents the number of possible scenarios that we could encounter in any realm. You can apply it to a career, profession, industry, et cetera. So the idea is that tomorrow is going to look probably pretty much like today, but as you go farther out, possible future scenarios start to expand. And so we use three questions as we look farther out to kind of help us think through these scenarios of what's the future of speaking. The first question is, what do I want to happen? So what do I want to have happen in this scenario? And I thought about this for me in speaking. And of course, this is, I did this exercise first in the summer of 2020, what I wanted to have happen was I wanted to get back in person.

Seth Mattison:

I was tired of being alone doing virtuals and at the time I wasn't very good at it. I'm talking into my laptop camera legitimately, right? This studio didn't exist 20 months ago. And I know that's the same for many of you. But if I had to stopped there, which is what most people do, we focus exclusively on what we want to have happen, I would not have evolved. Now, I applied the second question which is, what might happen. And in applying what might happen, I had to run the scenarios of, we might have new variants and we may stay in lockdown, or we might not be back in person. At the time, funny enough, I was thinking we might not be back in person until Q2 of 21. Well, now it's going to be all of 2021, could be a part of 2022.

Seth Mattison:

And in applying that question, Josh, I then had to say, if I'm going to have to stay in this environment, I have to level up my game because the truth is, if I'm honest, at that stage, I had had a bit of a mindset of, I just need to be good enough to get through this time. It just has to be good enough, right? I don't want to disappoint clients, but like, I just got to get through to get to the other side. And in applying this question, I said, what is it going to take for me to be exceptional at delivering in a virtual environment? And I'll give a couple of these practical things. One is I had to shift my mindset. I had a belief that I kept telling myself that I couldn't be as impactful virtually as I was in person, that I could never pierce through a camera lens and make the connection that you can in person.

Seth Mattison:

And the reality is whether it's true or not is irrelevant. The fact that you show up with that mindset will impact your outcomes. And so I had to make a shift to say, you know what, maybe this could actually be better. What if I allowed that possibility and I opened myself up to new tools? And that totally shifted my approach. So the last question we apply, and then I'll come back to you, Josh is so what do you want, what might happen and then the third one is what's possible, but not likely? And in applying what's possible, but not likely, one of the things that I, the thought experiment I went through was I looked at Sophia, the artificial intelligent talking robot that we've seen Tony Robbins interview. And she's been on more and more stages and platforms and conferences.

Seth Mattison:

And I think to myself, every time Sophia is speaking, that is a human being that's not speaking in that slot. That's you or I that's not in that slot that Sophia is. And if Sophia and others like Sophia can know everything about everything as it relates to a subject matter expertise, what is my competitive advantage that I can bring? How do I compete in that world? I can't compete on knowledge alone. And the place that I came to was that my advantage there is my humanity. And the more that I can tap into and communicate what it means to be a human through the past 20 months.

Seth Mattison:

And communicate what it means to be a human through the past 20 months. I shared more stories over the past 20 months than in the past decade, because of that question, tapping into my humanity. I shared what it felt like to not know if the business would survive. I shared what it's like to say goodbye to a loved one through a hospital window, as my father-in-law passed away from complications from COVID. Sophia and the robots are not going to be able to tap into that, but that is our human connection. And that is an opportunity for me to compete. So when I think about the future of speaking full circle, we're going to be in this beautiful hybrid mix, I think forever. It's going to supplement our in person. And so if you've ever been on the fence about your investment in virtual, in learning these new skills, in hiring people to help you, and learning how to communicate through that camera lens, now is the time to fully commit because we're not going back, and we have a real opportunity, I think, to amplify and extend our impact act.

Josh Linkner:

That's right, man. Beautifully said. And I couldn't agree more. Last question I have before we say goodbye, Seth. If you were giving advice, you have a friend let's say. I know when you were starting out in your twenties, I'm sure you were eager for advice. And, obviously we're all on our own path and we're all on different points in the journey. But if you're giving advice to someone you really cared about that was growing their speaking practice, they're committed to doing the right thing, they're doing it for the right reasons, their heart's in the right place, what advice? What's one or two pieces of little nuggets of wisdom that you would give to the emerging speaker to help them really launch and or scale their practice?

Seth Mattison:

It's really simple. Do not go it alone. One of the greatest gifts that I had was that David and Lynn had had almost 15 years, 20 years in the business as I came in. And so they... It probably accelerated my path by five, maybe even 10 years in being able to understand. All of the things that nobody really tells you. It's like, even if you've got a great website, even if you've got a great pedigree, even if you think you're a super compelling speaker, there's so many nuances to this business that you just don't know until you're in it. And so you have to find a community. You have to find coaches. You have to find people that can support you. And it is one of the things that I've been so impressed with what's been built with 3 Ring Circus is the community that is there. You hear people talk about having come out of that. And it's like their careers have accelerated the same that mine was given that I had David and Lynn.

Seth Mattison:

So really, whether you are just starting out or you're in sort of a pivotal, transitional moment where you're like, you know what, I'm 10,000, 15,000, 20,000, but man, I believe I could go to 50,000. This is the opportunity to be able to seek out the help to take you there to that next level. That's the advice, man. Don't go alone.

Josh Linkner:

Perfectly said. Seth, if people want to learn more about you and maybe connect, where's the best place to find you?

Seth Mattison:

It's super easy to find, my handle, Instagram, LinkedIn is probably where I'm the most active. Just @SethMattison. And then my website, SethMattison.com. You can sign up for our future of work insights and stay in touch with me there. So Seth Mattison across the board.

Josh Linkner:

Amazing. Well, listen, thank you so much for your wisdom, your insight, your heart and soul. I think I'm deeply inspired every time I talk with you and I know our audience as well. Thanks again for sharing those mic drop moments.

Seth Mattison:

I appreciate it, Josh. Thanks for the opportunity.

Josh Linkner:

Man, I could listen to Seth all day. Heartfelt, insightful, purpose driven. Here are a few takeaways that really resonated with me. Number one, Seth is willing to break away from tradition and forge his own path. He entered the business in a non-traditional way as an apprentice. He switched lanes on his main subject matter, which has always been frowned on in the business. And in an era of high tech, Seth focused on being high touch, bringing humanity, not technology to the future of our field.

Josh Linkner:

Number two, Seth wasn't just interested in reaching the top of the speaking industry. He was committed to getting there. From serving as a free apprentice to selling blood platelets, he did whatever it took to win, which made him unstoppable.

Josh Linkner:

And number three, speaking can be a lonely business, but Seth has found a way to make it a team sport. From his early days as an apprentice to his longstanding partnership with fellow keynote speaker Ryan Estis, to now working to build community within our field. Seth really lives the better together mindset. There's question in my mind that Seth will continue to pioneer new approaches and lead the future of keynote speaking to new heights and beyond, and he'll do so with warmth, humility, and most importantly, humanity.

Josh Linkner:

Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers and a big thanks to our sponsored 3 Ring Circus. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks for listening and here's to your mic drop moment.