Ever stood backstage wondering if your fear meant you weren’t cut out for this? You’re not alone, and it might actually mean you’re on the right track. In this episode, Dr. Rebecca Heiss — keynote speaker, author and stress physiologist — shares how professional speakers can transform fear and stress into drivers of real progress. She unpacks her T-minus 3 Technique, explains why reframing fear is essential for performance, and reveals how a near-death experience shifted the way she shows up on stage. Along the way, you'll hear why stress is biologically linked to meaning, how to stop proving and start serving, and what it really takes to show up as your full self in this business. If you're navigating bigger stages, making bolder asks or working to turn fear into forward motion, this episode is for you.
Dr. Heiss is a stress expert dedicated to transforming our fears into fuel we can use through her T-minus 3 Technique. Her research has been designated "transformative" by the National Science Foundation. When she's not on a stage, she is happiest when hiking or surfing with her two spoiled rotten dogs Guinness and Murphy.
Learn more about Dr. Rebecca Heiss:
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Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.
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Dr. Rebecca Heiss 0:00
The origins of this book was when I was laying in the bed with a 80% mortality rate. And there's this moment where I think, if this is it, I've done nothing.
Josh Linkner 0:21
Hey, everyone. Josh Linker, here. Welcome to Season Four of Mic Drop, the number one podcast for professional speakers. We believe deeply that words and ideas delivered with passion and precision change the world. To help you create the biggest possible impact, we dig into what it really takes to scale your speaking business. You'll hear behind the scenes stories from speakers at various stages, from those experiencing early success to those who have built seven figure speaking practices and beyond. You'll also hear from bureau execs, meeting planners and industry experts to help fuel your continued growth and success. Wherever you are now, there's a next step. Let's take that step together.
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Josh Linkner 2:12
Welcome to another episode of Mic Drop. My guest today is Dr Rebecca Heiss, and let me tell you, you won't want to miss this conversation. Rebecca is a stress psychologist and keynote speaker who's cracked the code on transforming fear, not avoiding it. She's helped millions reframe anxiety from a limiter into rocket fuel, and in this conversation, she shows us exactly how. Rebecca shares her T-minus 3 technique for reframing fear, explains the biological link between stress and meaning, and shares how a brush with death helped her become a more powerful and authentic speaker. We also get personal talking about imposter syndrome, letting go of the need to prove yourself and what it really means to show up as your full, weird, brilliant self on stage. If you've ever felt overwhelmed before a talk, doubted your place in the speaking world, or just wondered if fear meant you're doing something wrong. This episode is your antidote. Let's dive in.
Josh Linkner 3:11
Rebecca, welcome to Mic Drop.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 3:12
Well, thank you so much for having me.
Josh Linkner 3:14
This is going to be a very fun conversation. I've admired you so much. I'm a huge fan of your work and and your energy. So I've been really looking forward to today. To start us off, you're an expert on conquering fear and stress. When you entered professional speaking, what scared you the most?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 3:30
Oh, that's such a good question. You know, it isn't really relevant to professional speaking, per se. I think the thing that scared me the most, and the reason that I got into professional speaking, is what scared me was missing my shot, missing doing something that I really loved, that had true impact for people. And it's really easy to play it safe. It's really easy to say this is, this is a difficult industry to break into and be successful in, and I had a lot of opportunities in academia and other areas. And, yeah, that's what scared me the most, is diving in and really going all into something.
Josh Linkner 4:06
Well, that's an interesting concept. You know, I think so often people are so scared of taking a shot that they don't take it. And I like, actually the reframe. That's kind of healthy, like, I'd better be more afraid of missing the shot, because that at least pushes you into motion and you actually give it a shot.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 4:16
Yeah. I mean, there's a reason "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take," is like, the most over-quoted thing, right? But I think there's an addendum there that would have really helped me if I had knew it early on, which is, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, but you also miss most of the ones you do. And that's okay, right? That's just pointing you in a new trajectory, on a new course, on a new path. And I forget that frequently, so it's good to have that reminder.
Josh Linkner 4:43
Yeah, totally. And speaking of that, you're sort of known around the world for transforming our fears into fuel, which I really love that phrase, but can you unpack that a little bit for us?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 4:53
Yeah. I mean, most people try to get rid of their fear, get rid of their stress, get rid of that. And really that's a fight that we can't win, right? I am a big fan of meditation and coaching and all of the ways that you can, you know, bring more peace into your life. And what I'll say is, for most people, most people end up stressing out more, trying to do those things and trying to get rid of things, and then they don't work, and then they're like, what's wrong with me? And this, it creates this cycle of increased fear and stress, and so rather than fight against it, my goal is to say, "Okay, how do we take this stress that is inevitable in our lives and use that as energy that serves us?" And really, it's exactly what you said. It's mindset, right? It's going: "Okay, how can I get curious about this? What else could this mean?" Because I don't know...this is one of my one of my favorite pieces of advice that people always tell speakers is to try and calm down. And it's such bad advice, right? It is, first of all, like, I don't know, the last time you were stressed out, Josh, you came to a friend and you were like, "Oh, this is what's going on." They looked at you and they're like, "Oh, calm down," right? Like, what are you going to do to that person? It's, it's, it's not good advice, and we're telling that to ourselves. But physiologically, even, right? If you're in a heightened space, which I assume, even though you know you're an expert, you've been doing this for years, you know your stuff cold. You go on, I imagine you still get the flutters, which is great, because it means you're excited. It means you care. It's a barometer, right, for how much you you care about something. And so that little reframe, rather than trying to suppress the stress, the fear, the bad things, we just use it differently.
Josh Linkner 6:32
So well said, You're right, that notion of calm down, never calmed anybody down in the history of the universe. And it's also true that if you're trying to remove fear, I mean that creates more, like, "Oh, I'm so stressed out. I have two yoga classes, and I got to do my meditation and like, it's just... it's adding more stress than it's removing. So I really like the notion of transforming and reframing. That's really good.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 6:52
Well, again, like, you know, you can talk to your adrenal glands all you want, but they're still going to release adrenaline, you know. So we've got to use it differently.
Josh Linkner 7:00
Yeah, that's exactly right. So you've said that, and I'll quote by using proven scientific principles, we can rewire our brains to skyrocket our performance, collaboration and creativity, no matter what obstacle we're facing. And there are thousands of aspiring keynote speakers listening to our conversation today. How can you take that advice, which is obviously general, and apply it specifically to building and scaling a speaking practice?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 7:26
Yeah, gosh. I think the first thing, and I'll just walk through kind of my technique, because this is my Fearless Formula for speakers, is, or for anything that you're doing, is really recognize the fear itself, and instead of trying to avoid it, invite it in for a cup of tea, right? This isnot going anywhere, and this isn't going to kill you. So imagine the worst place, worst case scenario, right? Go there. List it out. Write out all your fears. Imagine them in deep, dark detail, like, don't avoid it. And then at the end of the day, read the list and say, will I be dead, right? Is this an actual tiger that's going to kill me? And if the answer is no, great. Great. Now you have options. Now you can take this second step, which is to transfer some of that energy. And it's interesting this, this is going to sound very familiar to you, Josh, curiosity and fear cannot coexist, right? This is one of, one of the tenants that I think we share. And so when we can begin to get curious about, well, what's the best case scenario? You know, how, how might I take the smallest step forward in building this career? Like, what does it look like to not blow up my life, but maybe ask if I can speak at the next pancake breakfast? You know? What does that look like taking those small steps? And then the third piece is a trajectory setting. So where do I once I have all of my stress and my butterflies aligned? Where do I want to point that? And that can look different for as many speakers as there are out there, your path is going to look different. And so maybe the step is toward a coaching, toward workshops, toward keynotes, toward what is the small step and this is where a lot of people get confused, because one of the most important pieces along that trajectory is to find others along with you. So we talk a lot about cortisol, main stress hormone, the second main major stress hormone is oxytocin, which is the cuddle hormone, the togetherness hormone, the like reaching out for help and receiving help under stress. So that trajectory should include somebody else that you get to serve or that can serve you.
Josh Linkner 9:35
It's so good. I love the way you reframe that you know. When you talk about curiosity and fear cannot coexist, almost like fear and just about anything worth doing or like any progress can't coexist. To me, fear is the biggest inhibitor, limiter to most things you know progress, because your brain gets in that hijacked state. You're not thinking clearly. You're certainly not creating anything when you find yourself because it is natural, you know, even, I'm sure, you know, a scientist expert like you, like, I'm sure there's moments you get derailed or whatever. What do you do, like, when you're in that hijack state? And, you know, first you've got to notice it, like, "Oh shit, I'm in like, that hijack state." What do you do to bounce out of it into a more sort of balanced and collaborative mindset?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 10:16
That's a great question, and I'm so glad that you asked me that, because people always, "Well, as a stress physiologist, you never get stressed." And I'm, like, "Hilarious. This is why I went into this field." I get stressed all the time. So I actually set a timer, Josh, like I set a three minute timer, and I allow myself to feel it right. I go through it, I catastrophize. I keep a little something I call a disaster diary, and I write down, like, all of the terrible things that are going to happen and really spiral. And when the timer dings, first of all, I'm exhausted because my brain's been doing this, right? And then, if I can, I transition to move my body, and I begin to act as if, and this is not a fake it till you make it kind of thing, right? This is I am going to act as if the best thing that can happen is happening to me. So I throw my shoulders back, I put a smile on my face. I like lean into this, and I take one step, small, small step forward. And there's a lot happening there, physiologically. But you know, I'll give you the short version of this, which is, you know, people think that they smile because they're happy. And in reality, what we've shown is you can make grad students do anything. So we can make them put a pencil in their mouth like that. And if you do that, they become happier as a result, because they are grimacing, they're like forced smile. And it creates this like cycle of happiness and joy and steers you a little bit outside of fear, and so we can begin to choose, oh, maybe this heightened state means something different. Maybe it means that I'm excited, or maybe it means that there's an opportunity, rather than the interpretation that it means there's something I need to be concerned about.
Josh Linkner 11:58
Another comment that you made just now, is that you're talking about, you know, what's the worst case? And you know, is it, are you dead or not? I've often...I'd love to validate this with you with your expertise. So you're right. So people say, "Okay, I'm going to try something new, whatever that is, what's the worst case scenario?" But they don't, probability adjust it. It's sort of like, okay, here's the worst case scenario. Sounds awful. How about I don't, there's no way I want that. So therefore I want to... I'll just do nothing. I like to inject a word which is the worst likely case scenario. So the worst case scenario on me going to the airport tonight to get on an airplane to go give two keynotes tomorrow — true story in San Antonio — is the worst case scenario is I get hit by a car and die. But that's, that's an unlikely scenario, a worst likely scenario is, I get a speeding ticket, I get a flat tire, all of those, but like, comparatively, those are pretty different things. How do you feel about sort of reframing in our mind the probability of a worst case scenario and perhaps inserting like the worst likely case scenario to more balance and calibrate the fear?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 12:59
I think that's brilliant. And I think it's so unnatural, right? It is not people's tendency. We immediately go to worst case, which is why, you know, the first tenant that I speak about is, is it a tiger, like literally? Are we talking life and death? Because if it's not dead, then there's an action you can take. I think, you know, the other thing that you mentioned there that speaks to that is this, this cost of inaction. So it's easy to measure the cost of our actions. It's easy to measure all of these things that like, oh, well, I might die, I might spin out, I might do this, I might... so we're good at that. And what that does is it keeps us stuck right where we are, and we rarely consider that cost of inaction. Like, well, what if I don't? What if I just stay here? Because, you know, regrets begin to fester because we never get data, we never see what might have been. So maybe the better question that I like to ask in these scenarios is it's not like, what would I do if I knew I could not fail? Because, like, you might, right? But what would I do if I knew with certainty that I would fail and it would still be worth it, right? Because that's a very different question to ask. I don't know if that's helpful, but similar to your sort of probability setting. Yeah, okay, maybe I do fail, and is it still worth it? Is there something that I glean from that?
Josh Linkner 14:24
So we're describing different things you can do to think through, like, you know, reframe the probability, etc. Those are thinking activities. In your work, you share that our biology affects our response to everything. And so my question is, in a world where we think we can just think through or work through or grit through a problem, this seems counterintuitive. Like, oh, screw my biology, I just gotta think through it. Help us understand that a little bit more. How does biology affect our processes, and how can we sort of use that to drive better outcomes and reduce stress and fear?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 14:55
Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned this. We are insanely illogical under fear and stress, like, insanely illogical to everything we've been speaking about, right? Like, I'm just gonna die, right? But maybe, maybe... unlikely. So getting out of our head and getting into our body, you know, acting as if really is this somatic feedback that our brain is looking constantly to our body to say what's going on here, because the hormones are often very similar, right? Like if you're stressed and in fear, your body's experiencing the same thing as if you're excited. So your brain is looking to your body, going, what's happening? What... what do I need to do here? And thinking through that isn't going to solve anything. So getting into our body and taking action, throwing our shoulders back, and one of the things that I think is one of the easiest ways to move into the fear is something called the Winner's Effect. And I didn't name it. I'm sorry. I think it's a terrible name. But essentially, what happens is you have this big goal. You want to become a speaker. You want to be a $50,000 speaker. You are... you're starting from scratch, right? You're starting from nothing. What is the smallest goal that you can set, right? What is the absolute littlest thing? Maybe it is I'm going to write the first line of my keynote. That's the goal, right? And when you do that, you pause and you celebrate that. Because what this does is it sets up this cycle known as the Winner's Effect in our body. So your physiology, physically, your cortisol, your hormones for stress, start to dissipate, and, very importantly, your dopamine increases. And dopamine is not just a happiness hormone, it's an addiction hormone. It's like that — I want more of that. So then you set the next small goal, and you hit that, and this begins to cycle. Now the opposite is also true, right? You say, I want to be a $50,000 speaker, and you don't take those small actionable steps forward. You're just... the next day, you're not a $50,000 speaker. The next day, you're not a $50,000 speaker. And every day, you start to end up in this Loser's Effect cycle, where you're stressing out even more, you're not using it to your benefit, and your performance starts to decline. So breaking those things down into really, really tiny, actionable things that you get to celebrate along the way is probably physiologically and biologically the best thing that you can do.
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Josh Linkner 18:23
Yeah, inherent in all that too is really the noticing and being aware of it. So noticing what mental state you're in and also noticing what your physiology is doing, almost like you'd envision it like, hmm, what? What's coursing through my... oh, is that dopamine there? Like, you know, not that you're gonna have a scientific view, but just sort of being aware of how your body is physically responding, and that can help sort of ground you and remove you from the chaos of the moment, and help kind of give you a more balanced view.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 18:56
Yeah, you said something really important there, too. And I want to make sure that I emphasize this, because the fear and the anxiety don't go away. Like, if I could just write a prescription for somebody like, have those disappear... first of all, I wouldn't, because that's actually what brings meaning and purpose into our lives. And I'll table that for another discussion. But your level of excitement or dopamine or addiction, or like, the good things that go forward don't cancel out the anxiety and the fear. So anybody that is stepping onto these stages and has fear and is going, "Oh, it must not be right for me. You know, I still have this fear. I still have this anxiety." I'm going to say the exact opposite. If you don't have that, this isn't for you. Yeah, that's it's really important to know that. You can be excited and you'll probably be fearful as well.
Josh Linkner 19:45
Love it. You mentioned that there's a connection to meaning and purpose. I'd love your thoughts on that. How do you think about these things, which you ordinarily think of I got to avoid at all costs and remove and eradicate from my life to actually say, actually, no, these are triggers that have to be worked through, perhaps, but ultimately, we can drive deep meaning and purpose?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 20:04
Yeah. So this was a 2013 study that, like, blew my mind, right? It was looking at all of these different correlates for what makes for a meaningful and purposeful life. And this was, like, right after I turned 40, and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, having that existential crisis of, like, what is life? And so I was looking for how to bring more meaning and purpose into my life. And the number one correlate to this meaningful, purposeful life turns out to be stress, and that includes past, traumatic, stressful events, current state of stress, and even future worry and anxiety. And this paper blew my mind so much. I was like that is incorrect. Like, even as a stress physiologist, I'm going, no, they got something wrong. So I did some follow-up research on it, and I did this research myself last year, and I asked thousands of people for this clarifying question, which is this: I want you to think about a project or an accomplishment that you're most proud of, and when you have that in mind, I want you to go back in time to when you were in the middle of that project and think what your stress level was, right, on a scale of zero to 100. And I can tell you the data. You know, the data. I mean, you're sitting there shaking your head, going, oh gosh, I was stressed out of my gourd, right? And the data came back and like, 4% of people are liars, like they just have no stress, I don't know, or they need bigger goals. I mean, about 23% of people were like, yeah, I was moderately stressed, but like, I was in the flow, which means the vast majority of us, including a whole lot of people that I had to eliminate because they were, like, 5,892% stress. We're stressed out of our gourd when we're doing our most meaningful and purposeful work. And the trick, I think, for all of us, is to recognize that if we're running away from that stress, we're also running away from the thing that brings our life meaning and purpose. And so rather than only retrospectively looking back and going, that was good, can we in the moment go, ah, this is good, right? This stress is enhancing for me. This is helping me perform at my peak.
Josh Linkner 22:06
Such a great reframe. Because you think about, you know, I would have said the same thing. You said, what was something that you're really proud of? And I immediately go to a thing that was hard and that I struggled with. And so it's... yeah, that doesn't mean in the moment, it's blissful, but that's how you build confidence, and that's how you do work that will make a real impact, as opposed to doing something easy without stress, like if it was easy, then everyone would do it, and it would've already been done. And so I really liked that, because it means that. It's not something to be afraid of or run from, it's more about how we can, as you point out, transform it. So speaking of transforming it, you developed this thing called a T-minus 3 technique. Can you walk us through that? I mean, I love getting practical, so I think we can all take something away from it.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 22:44
Yeah, T-minus 3 is simply the Tiger, the Transfer and the Trajectory. And it's as simple as, is this a tiger? Like, is this literally something that is going to kill me and eat me in the next three minutes? Because that is what every single one of our stress responses is set up for, right? It is set up for... that email comes in, your body processes it like it's a life and death situation. We know logically, it's not, but we still have to go through that process. So is it a tiger? No, it's not a tiger. Great. Then we're having this surge of energy, and that's where we get to reframe this. We get to transfer that energy, because, as we know from high school physics, right, energy cannot be created, nor destroyed, but it can be transferred. So we're going to transfer this energy into energy that serves us. We'll begin to tell ourselves that this is our body rising to a challenge. It's producing energy that is going to be enhancing for us. And even saying those words, despite the fact that you may not believe it, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. This is the fun part about our biology. Even saying that begins to get us to a spot where we are more excited. And one of my favorite parts about the transfer stage is the human element to it, because humans are so emotionally contagious. So if I sit across from you, which I am right now, and I'm seeing your face and you're nodding and you're smiling along. I'm getting more excited, and that's feeding back to me, going, oh yeah, you're not just nervous, you're also excited, because Josh is excited. And now this begins to spread through our culture, just like any kind of contagion would. So fear spreads really rapidly, joy spreads really rapidly, all of these things. So that's the transfer stage. We're transferring the energy that wants to transfer. And then the trajectory is pointing it along a line that serves us and others. And one of my most surprising research findings is that when you look at all of these workplace interventions, 90 different workplace interventions, meditation, massage, I was really hoping massage would do the trick. Nope. You know, coaching... all of these things that are good for us, objectively, none of them actually move the needle on mitigating the negative effects of stress, with the exception of service to others. And that is so powerful. So now I've got these butterflies in alignment. And what's the trajectory, what is the small step forward into the fear that I take that doesn't just serve me, but it serves my community? It serves a bigger part than me. And so that's the T-minus 3 technique to walk you through any fear, any stressor, anything that hits you that says, okay, what does this mean? How do I transfer it?
Josh Linkner 25:19
Beautiful. So we've been talking about T-minus 3, we've been talking about scientific principles to rewire stress and anxiety and fear... I'd love to shift that kind of almost to you. I know in the last couple of years you've had some really explosive growth in your own speaking career, and you're doing some just great work. How have you applied some of these principles to yourself? Maybe just talk us through what your career is doing now, what's going on in your speaking career, how you're thinking about your continued growth and success as a thought leader and making a difference in people's lives?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 25:49
Yeah. Gosh, thank you. The last few years have been really interesting, right? I had a near death experience last year, which was a real tiger staring at me, and that really shifted a lot of the ways that I think I show up in in business and in life, but my speaking career has had a massive shift. And I think there's a few elements there. I think the first one is this community element that I'm... that we've talked about a lot, right? The Impact community has been huge for me. Finding my community outside of Impact too, within bureau, partners with agents, with comedians, with people that are not necessarily in the industry, industry that we're in, but are close that I'm learning from and growing with. That has been a massive win for me. The other thing I think has been really shifting for me has been that I've really leaned into the fear of being who I am, which is probably the scariest thing that you have to do right, is showing up as you. I am a sporty, not always well spoken, nerdy academic who is who has, like, seven degrees and I still like to entertain, right? So the more I leaned into my expertise and reminded myself that I still wasn't an expert, still had room to grow, the more people I think have responded and found value in what I had to offer. So, yeah, those are probably the biggest, the biggest things. I think, learning to trust myself is the other piece of that, using tools like performance and things to to really, you know, work on the business back end as well to say, oh, we can do this. Let's, let's try it.
Josh Linkner 27:40
I love that you brought up, you know, being comfortable being you, basically. And, you know, authenticity is sort of a cliche that's tossed around. But I'd love to, you know, let's go a layer deeper on that. What does that mean to really show up as you? There's almost like an acceptance involved in it. And the myth is that you know you're supposed to show up as some ideal, or something other than you. And the truth is, of course, that doing so waters down your message. You become totally unremarkable. It does nothing for you, internally or externally. Whereas the courage you point out where you're really standing into who you are, the good, the bad and the ugly... like, maybe just go later, deeper, beyond the cliche of it, what does that mean to you to show up as you? What is involved in it? What do you have to let go of? What patterns need to be broken.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 28:22
I think in this industry, it is really easy to get into comparison mode, right? And I spent a lot of time... and this is going to be a little bit of a contradictory statement, so bear with me. I spent a lot of time looking at other people, looking at what they were doing, and going, oh, why am I not Josh Linker, yet? Why am I not this person yet? How can I do this? I want to be more like XYZ and that served me to a point, right? Because I think studying other speakers, studying their craft and their performance, and I gleaned a lot from that. But rather than trying to become them, I started to really lean into their teachings of how they showed up as themselves as, oh, it's not that I have to be Josh Linkner. It's that I have to use his principles of how he shows up loving jazz and loving improv and pulling all of these pieces of himself into his content. And so instead of being scared that I'm a scientist and people are just not going to hire me because I'm super nerdy, I'm like, oh no, that's actually who I am. So let me bring the science and bring the piece of myself that's also, you know, always wanted to be on stage and do the da da da da da da bit. And those things can live congruently as long as I'm not trying to be something that I'm not.
Josh Linkner 29:45
That's really good. I'm hearing you saying, you know, you're not... don't try to replicate, but you can learn from... by the way, you can learn bad things, like, here's what I want never to do. So you can learn inputs, great, but ultimately, you're the artist is what I'm hearing you saying. You know, you get to to show up as who you are, and then ultimately, the content that you deliver, you get to make artistic choices. And it's not trying to be some other thought leaders, trying to use your authenticity to bring it to life, idea to life in a way that resonates with you. And then ultimately, I think, even more so with your audience.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 30:13
Yeah, the thing I really had to let go of, honestly, as you asked this, and I've been trying to come up with this on the spot. The thing I had to let go of was having to prove myself, right? This is I had to take a stage not having to prove myself. And that is really hard. I think, especially for women, that's particularly hard. I was like, oh, here's the degrees. Let me impress you. Let me show you all the things that I know so that you'll pay attention and listen to me and get some value from this. And rather than proving myself, I started to show up, actually for my audience. Like, this isn't about me, right? This isn't about me. And it doesn't matter how many times people tell you that, you've got to get to a space with yourself where you're like, yeah, okay, this is you. How do I serve you? That was a huge shift for me. And it happened... it happened because I was giving a free talk to a high school boys basketball team, like a little prep talk, and I was bombing. It was the worst talk I've ever given. And it was because I was so nervous. Here I am, like these high school kids, and I'm so nervous that I'm not cool enough to deliver this talk, right? And that's why I bombed. So I pulled back and was able to actually give some advice that was useful later on. So it's a good lesson.
Josh Linkner 31:34
Well, that's amazing. My good friend and a founding partner of mine at ImpactEleven, Ryan Estis, likes to say, "You get to a point in your life, where you shift from something to prove to something to give." And that's exactly the distinction you made. You're not trying to prove. Or, you know, it's like, hey, I'm here for you. I'm here to show up. It's an act of service and and kindness and compassion... generosity. That's what a great keynote, really, is. It's not about you. It's not look what I can do. It's look what you can do. I mean, it's really... and so your orientation to the audience and what do they need from me? How can I give, how can I serve them... changes everything. That was a really good one.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 32:08
That's it. You nailed it.
Josh Linkner 32:10
So you've got a new book coming out. It's coming out this fall. I can't wait. "Springboard: Transform Stress to Work for You." What's the main thesis of the book, and what are some key takeaways for speakers? And then, bonus question: What stresses you out?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 32:27
Okay, let's see the first question... see this stresses me out is that I can't think in three questions. The thesis of the book is stress isn't going anywhere. We're doing a disservice by trying to get rid of it. We can use that energy to serve us. So that's the thesis of the book. The meat of it is theT-minus 3 technique, which I won't bore your listeners with again, because we've gone through it. But it really leans into this aspect of community and and the power of community under stress, needing to reach out, needing to serve others when we are the most stressed out. So I'll tell you the origins of this book was when I was laying in the bed with a 80% mortality rate going, huh, this could be it. And my best girlfriend had just been diagnosed with stage four cancer, and she came in to visit me in the hospital, and there's this moment where I think, oh, if this is it, I've done nothing. Like
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 33:31
this community... I've done nothing. And that whole need of like, needing to prove yourself and show up, like it just dissipated. And so the book, really, it does focus in on this cancer diagnosis of my friend. And it's a, it's a happy ending. I'll give you the quick version there. This friend group came together so quickly around this tiger that was literally staring down the... I mean, this is a, this is an actual life and death situation, and friends, began to read research papers and plan meals and set up websites for donations. And what ended up happening, we got her an appointment at Johns Hopkins with a biologist who had literally not even published this data yet. We convinced the oncologist to run this cancer treatment. She was the first person to receive this treatment, and she just celebrated one year cancer free. So like, I tell you the power of stress to bring people together toward an outcome. And listen, I'm not promising that outcome for everybody, of course. Like, how could I? But that movement, even if the outcome had been different, was so powerful, and the connections that we forged through that discomfort were so powerful. That's what this book is about. It's thethe connections that we can create and to ourselves, to other people in the stress that really matter.
Josh Linkner 35:00
You know, tying back to a point you made earlier, that, you know, some of those darkest moments can really be the source of unlocking meaning and purpose and light as the darkness unlocks the light. And I was just reflecting on this, you have an 80% mortality chance you're laying in a hospital. And out of that, you know, horrible trauma, you're not only healthy and vibrant now, but you launched this new body of work. So, you know, like that, that was a catalyst for something great. You know, your friends struggles unlocked a point of connection between the two you and this whole broader community. She's going to be okay, thank God, but like, unlocked something great. And it's, you know, I'm not trying to be like a postcard, because it's harder in the moment. You're having some really big setback and you're overwhelmed and all that, but like just, just to know that that's possible, that in those dark moments, that can be the beginning of something beautiful yet to come. That's really encouraging.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 35:40
Right? And we talk all the time about post-traumatic stress disorder, right? PTSD. Everybody knows what PTSD is. And 8% of the population will experience PTSD. 80% of the population will experience post-traumatic growth. And I think this is really special, right? Even when that trauma, that stress, that fear is embodied in you, there is this beautiful light on that other side, that as we point our trajectories toward, we get to find deeper meaning, deeper connection, deeper purpose, more spiritual growth, like there is so many opportunities to find good from those moments. So yeah, that's what I do now.
Josh Linkner 36:32
Just want to make sure we everyone hears that loud and clear, going from post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, to post-traumatic growth. PTG. Love, love that. Well, we could, I could chat with you all day, my friend. I just find you fascinating. Your energy is amazing, but kind of to bring our conversation home on a little bit of a lighter note, I was reading that you've taken groups of high school students to China, Belize and the Galápagos Islands.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 36:49
Yeah, you wanna talk about what stresses me out?
Josh Linkner 36:51
I'm sure there is a lot of stress there, and I was thinking about that, what a beautiful gift to do that for folks, and I'm sure they learned a ton from you. My question to you is, what did you learn from them?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 37:11
Everything. Honestly, everything. My students have been probably the biggest gift to me in their enduring love of life. I mean, I have had the privilege of traveling and seeing all of these amazing places, and every time I took a student, I saw things through their eyes, completely fresh, right? It's these trees that I walk by all the time in Costa Rica that are absolutely stunning, and the kids are like, they look like elephant ears and you just see the world from a completely new perspective. It's funny. I just had a lunch with one of my former students this past, this past week, and I've been out of academia for years now, and she's getting married, so we had a whole heart to heart. You know, I don't have kids myself. I've got two step stepsons, but these are my... these are my children that continually teach me the power of connection and and staying curious and staying open to new ideas. They are. They've been really special for me.
Josh Linkner 38:20
As my daughter, Talia, had her dance recital yesterday... I have eight year old twins, for anyone listening, a boy, girl twins, and same the other thing like, you know, on the one hand, you hope that you can teach them a thing or two, but I learn from them every day, and it's just a good reminder too that, you know, you don't have to be someone of position or authority to track learning. You know, we can learn from every situation, good and bad, and speaking of which, I've certainly learned a lot from you today. So thank you so much for the conversation and our friendship. Thank you for your continued contribution and making such an important impact on the world, helping millions of people reduce stress and turn those fears into focus and growth. So Dr, Rebecca Heiss, Thank you,
Dr. Rebecca Heiss 39:00
Josh, thank you. It's truly been a privilege.
Josh Linkner 39:13
What a powerful and personal conversation. I love Rebecca's reframe that fear isn't something to eliminate, it's something to transform. The idea that curiosity and fear can't coexist, that's not just a clever line. That's actually a road map on how to move through discomfort into momentum. And maybe the part that'll stick with me the most, that stress is actually the number one correlate to meaning. That just blew my mind. We spend our lives trying to avoid stress, but maybe, just maybe, it's the very thing we need to feel most alive. So if you are feeling the flutters before your next keynote, remember what Rebecca taught us. It's not a sign to step back. It's a sign that you care. That stress is the spark, the fear is the fuel. Thanks again to Dr. Rebecca Heiss for her wisdom, her heart, and for reminding us that the path to growth isn't calm, it's courage.
Josh Linkner 40:03
Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends, and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next mic drop moment.