In this episode of Mic Drop, we connect with Susan Drumm, a seasoned leadership consultant with a diverse background spanning Harvard Law School, London School of Music and Dramatic Arts, and significant consulting experience. Susan shares her expertise on what it means to be an "enlightened leader" and the transformative power of understanding and reshaping one's internal narrative. Her insights reveal common patterns among high achievers and the significant impact of self-awareness on leadership effectiveness. Susan discusses how she utilizes music to transform limiting beliefs into empowering ones, illustrating her approach with vivid examples. Join us as Susan unpacks the journey from a high-powered corporate career to profound personal changes, offering guidance for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills or navigate their own transformative paths.
Susan Drumm is a leadership development advisor with a rich academic and professional background, including Harvard Law School and the London School of Music and Dramatic Arts. She has coached billionaires, CEOs, and political figures, guiding them to enhance their leadership capabilities through increased self-awareness and strategic personal development. Susan is also the author of "The Leader's Playlist," where she merges her expertise in leadership with her passion for music to offer innovative approaches to personal and professional growth.
Enlightened Leadership:
Susan defines "enlightened leadership" as a blend of awareness about one's impact on others and an intimate understanding of one's internal dialogue. She discusses the balance between recognizing personal strengths and addressing weaknesses that could limit leadership potential.
Patterns of Success and Struggle:
Drawing on her extensive experience coaching top executives and leaders, Susan identifies common 'playlists'—patterns of thought—that can propel leaders to success or serve as obstacles. She emphasizes the importance of transforming these internal narratives to achieve sustained effectiveness and fulfillment.
The Power of Music in Leadership:
Susan explains how she uses music not only as a metaphor but as a practical tool to help leaders reprogram their subconscious and foster more empowering beliefs. She shares examples of how specific songs can anchor new, positive mindsets, facilitating profound personal changes.
Radical Career Changes:
Susan reflects on her own career transitions, from law and business to acting and then to leadership development, highlighting the insights gained and the challenges overcome. She provides advice for those contemplating significant career changes, focusing on the need for courage, clarity, and commitment to personal growth.
Learn more about Susan Drumm:
Learn more about Josh Linkner:
ABOUT MIC DROP:
Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.
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On the business front, he’s been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he’s helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He’s twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.
While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world’s foremost experts on innovation. Josh
is the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he’s on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.
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Susan Drumm:
It's almost like you got to take the first exit, and so we find a way to find a trigger song that's going to be an example of that.
Josh Linkner:
Hey, friends. Josh Linkner here. Delighted to bring you season three of Mic Drop, the number one podcast for professional speakers and thought leaders. On the show, we connect with experts at the top of the field unpacking their success to help each of us grow and thrive. From elevating your artistry to booking more gigs, Mic Drop is designed to give you the tools and insights you need to reach the next level. Together, we'll accelerate the path to growth, success, and most importantly, impact.
Sponsor:
The best keynotes start movements and insight change. And when you couple an electrifying speech with a project that fuels audience engagement, the result is lightning in a bottle. What I'm talking about here is a book. That's where our friends at Amplify Publishing Group come in. With 20 plus years of experience and hound by some of the industry's most renowned veterans, including bestselling author and global superstar, Mel Robbins, the team at Amplify knows not only how to produce a fantastic book, but how to leverage that book and make it work for you, your brand and your business. And Amplify not only knows books, they know the world of keynote speaking and thought leadership. Having published CEOs and executives, they take positioning into consideration at every step of the way. Whether you have a one-line concept or a comprehensive outline, Amplify is ready to work with you. Visit AmplifyPublishing.com/MicDrop to schedule an exploratory call and receive an exclusive editorial one-pager tailored to your concept. That's AmplifyPublishing.com/MicDrop.
Josh Linkner:
Today on Mic Drop, we welcome Susan Drumm, a seasoned expert in leadership and development, and a guide to becoming an enlightened leader. With an impressive background spanning from Harvard Law School to the London School of Music and Dramatic Arts, Susan brings a unique blend of legal prowess, artistic sensitivity, and leadership acumen to the table. She's worked with an array of high-profile clients, including billionaires, CEOs, and political figures, helping them navigate their internal dialogue and transform their leadership capabilities.
In this episode, Susan delves into what it means to be an enlightened leader or an enlightened speaker, emphasizing the importance of consciousness and self-awareness. She explores common patterns amongst successful individuals, including the struggles and internal narratives that can either serve as superpowers or liabilities. Susan's insights into transforming these old playlists into empowering new better playlists offers an invaluable guide for anyone looking to elevate their leadership or speaking effectiveness. Join us as we explore Susan's journey from a high-flying career in law and business to her radical pivot into acting and leadership development. Discover her approach to overcome fear and self-doubt through music and the power of the Enneagram in understanding one's own internal motivations and growth paths. Susan's vision for the future, including her focus on reaching a broader audience through speaking and digital content promises to inspire and enlighten us all. Susan, welcome to Mic Drop.
Susan Drumm:
Thank you. I'm excited to be here with you.
Josh Linkner:
We have so many topics to cover today as I get to know you and your body of work, and you've had so many different chapters and so many areas of study. But I want to start out with this notion of enlightened leaders. You obviously help people become enlightened leaders. Maybe share with us what does that phrase mean and what would the definition be if we applied it to speakers? What would be an enlightened speaker?
Susan Drumm:
Well, another word you could use is conscious, which is aware. And I think an enlightened leader is somebody who is aware of both how they're coming across, but also what's going on inside them, that internal dialogue. And I think a lot of the work that I'm doing is helping leaders uncover what that internal dialogue is and how it could help them, and also how it could get in the way and what I call sort of, it could be a superpower, it could be a liability. And when it's a liability, if you don't work to handle that and shift it's going to create a ceiling on your leadership effectiveness and on your effectiveness as a speaker.
Josh Linkner:
Spot on. And you talk about the superpowers versus liabilities or kryptonites, I suppose would be the opposite of that. So you've coached billionaires, CEOs, high profile political figures, prominent Fortune 100, CEOs, et cetera. I'm curious, what are some of the common patterns that you've seen across such successful people? In other words, what are some of the common superpowers and some of the common kryptonites that you've witnessed firsthand?
Susan Drumm:
Yes. Yeah. Well, I actually boiled it down to the nine most common old playlists and new playlists and my book's called the Leader's Playlist. And when I say playlist, I'm using it both figuratively and literally. But let's talk about the figurative part because that gets into the patterns and I think that's my superpower is pattern recognition. It's really what had me get into Harvard Law School by just taking eight practice tests and seeing the patterns and then getting an almost perfect score by doing that. And so what I noticed the patterns that leaders are in has to do with this old messaging that got formulated way back in childhood usually.
And the way you show up as a leader has everything to do with that messaging. Some of that messaging can be things like we've heard it before, like I'm an imposter, but other messaging could be I'm treated unfairly or I have to succeed to be loved. That's a big one I hear from a lot of very, very successful people is just this fundamental belief that in myself, I'm not worthy to be loved, I have to succeed. And so therefore, there's this constant drive that get borders on being unhealthy and excessive because of the fear ultimately that they won't be loved without the success.
Josh Linkner:
Man, I can really relate to that. I feel like when I was a kid, my parents, the only way I got attention is through achievement, and then there was achievement inflation where if I did something remarkable one month, the next month, that was standard and then you had to outdo yourself. And so yeah, I spent a lot of years really grappling with that exact same thing. How do you gain worthy and feel worthy of love and acceptance and things if it's decoupled from achievement? That's really very profound when you talk about the neuroscience and the work that you've done on the leader's playlist. Now you got me just thinking what are some of the other common of those nine negative playlists that we could rewire in a much more positive manner?
Susan Drumm:
Yes. So one side detail, there's a belief that you're trapped or a fear of being trapped. I've seen that a lot with entrepreneurs. It's sort of why they become entrepreneurs because they don't want to be trapped, but yet, they might be afraid to take on debt to scale the business because they might be trapped by the debt or whatever, potentially triggers that. I've heard leaders not feel safe. And so feeling safe, they may be grew up in a very challenging environment and they have to be really tough, but ultimately underneath it, there's a fear if they're not super tough and hardcore that they're going to be taken advantage of. So at its core, it's not feeling safe. There's the very classic, "I'm not enough, I am not enough." And it could be I'm not pretty enough, I'm not charismatic enough, whatever that descriptive is, but that's a big area that comes up.
It comes up a lot for women too. Another one that I see a lot for women entrepreneurs in particular is I'm all alone where it's all falling back to me to be able to do everything. And I find leaders that have that problem, they ultimately are poor delegators because there's a belief there that they can't trust. And when they have that belief, that's what gets mirrored back from even the people that they hire. So they're like, "Well, yeah, look at all these examples of people that I can't trust and I'm just really all alone on this." So that's one. Should I keep going? I can keep giving you more.
Josh Linkner:
Well, I think you've listened a bunch of them and I appreciate that. And those are also true. I'm sure we can all relate to them in varying degrees. So if we think of those as negative playlists, obviously your book identifies those, but then I know it gives some tools and approaches to reframe those because really at the core, those are limiting beliefs. So you're sort of giving us, here's some common limiting beliefs and here's a way to reimagine those or reprogram yourself. What are some of the ways that we can go about once we've identified those limiting beliefs of reprogramming them and upgrading our playlist?
Susan Drumm:
Yes. Well, I think it's, first, it's about interrupting it because all that belief is, is a neural pathway that's been grooved in so many times. I call it your eight lane highway to hell. So think about the last time you got triggered by something. Chances are, if I were to dig that it, yes, you're triggered by that, but it has so much more to do with stuff that's happened in the past. It's why it's become a trigger. So because it's such a strong neural pathway, it needs to be able to be interrupted. It's almost like you got to take the first exit. And so we find a way to find a trigger song that's going to be an example of that. Real quick example, I know a leader had that I detail in the book, had an old playlist of I'm left out and we came up with a song Adele's Hello.
The song is like, "Hello, can you hear me?" She's like, begging, "Please, I've been calling a thousand times and you don't pick up the phone." And to her that really represented that vibrational feeling, that emotional state of what she experienced every time she was left out of a key meeting and she wasn't copied on certain information at work and in her personal life when the ex went to the lakehouse with the kids that she used to go to and didn't go to anymore. So we find the song or songs that's going to be best there. And so now she's building more of an awareness to say when this happens, "Oh yeah, there's Adele again, like I'm in that pattern." And so music, what's interesting is that these patterns are vibrational, their emotions are vibrational and so is music. And the reason we use music is music has a profound impact on the brain.
It lights up all regions of the brain. And I could go on about some of the research, but building the new playlist then is determining what do you really want to feel instead? What's the vibrational state that you want to be in? And for her, it was I bring peace and appreciation. And so with that, we literally built out a playlist of songs that had her feel peace and appreciation and that she was actually the generator of that. So that's just like a little snippet of the way in which we use it. And then how she was able to build and practice building that at a faster rate than you could without it.
Josh Linkner:
I love this and you and I share a number of commonalities and one of those of course is we're both musicians and I love it. Your solve isn't a metaphorical playlist only, it's an actual playlist, and you're actually using, as you mentioned, the vibrations of music to influence us. So I want to dive into that a little bit. So as you mentioned, you graduated of the Harvard Law School, successful career in business, and then at age 30 you made this radical change. So you took a hiatus from corporate and got a master's degree in acting from the London School of Music and Dramatic Arts. Help us understand how does someone who's rocking it out 30 years old has momentum make such a radical change and what drew you to it and maybe kind of walk us through that experience?
Susan Drumm:
Yes, I felt myself, I didn't know what I wanted to do at that point because I was so turned off by the leaders who I had worked under all along. And whether that was, I went to law school and went to law firms for my summers and then went to Boston Consulting Group and then went into NBC television and marketing and business development. And I just want to do something I know I'm passionate about and let me see what emerges from there. And it was through that experience that I got interested in leadership development because I primarily focused on acting.
There was some singing involved, but I was primarily focused on acting. And as an actor, you learn to both connect deeply with your fellow actor. You learn to stay very present, but you can't be worried about that. You learn to deal with that inner critic, that voice inside your head, and you learn what authenticity and empathy is. And I kept thinking, "God, there's got to be a way I could bring this back to business." And so it was out of that experience that I got into leadership development 20 years ago.
Josh Linkner:
It's so cool. It's funny. I got to believe that most people listening today, most speakers, it's not like you graduate college and you're 22 and you're like, "Yeah, I chose the professional speaking degree and now I'm going to go on the circuit." Most of us, it's a second or third or fourth career and we're taking that radical change. So what sort of advice and counsel would you give to somebody who, like you, had a very successful run and entering the world of thought leadership and speaking is a new chapter, it's a radical change. Having gone through that radical change yourself, what words of wisdom can you share?
Susan Drumm:
Yes. Well, I would say inevitably when we're trying something new, usually fear pops up for most people, I would say 90, 95% of people. And so get clear on what is that fear? Can you put a name to it? What's the belief that you have about yourself? I'm not good enough. I might forget my lines, so to speak, my speech. What is that fear? And let's see if we can then decide what do you really want to create rather than focusing your attention there? To name it is to kind of be aware of it, but who do you want to be stepping on stage? Who is that person? What state do you want to be and what do you want to say about yourself? So for the longest time, a new playlist of mine was I'm empowered. So I chose songs that were far more empowering for me and got me into that state.
So every speaker I believe should have a walk-on song right prior to going up, what is that music that's going to get you in the highest possible vibrational state to go do what you're really after, which is a meaningful mission at some point. So I'm sure you've heard the phrase, when in doubt focus out, you learn this as an actor, right? Don't get all like what about what is that meaningful mission? And you get connected to the difference you want to make, then you're less worried about how am I, what's happening here? And how am I showing up?
Josh Linkner:
So now, of course, I have to ask, what's your play on song?
Susan Drumm:
What's my what?
Josh Linkner:
Your play on song? You said every speaker should have a play on song.
Susan Drumm:
Mine is 24K Magic by Bruno Mars. It was really the song-
Josh Linkner:
And what does that do for you?
Susan Drumm:
That just the party, I have arrived and let the party begin. And here I am. We're going to have fun, but this is going to be insightful and we're going to create some magic here because ultimately, I'm a believer in creating magic. So I just love that song for that reason. And Bruno Mars is the bomb.
Josh Linkner:
Love that.
Susan Drumm:
I've seen him four times in concert. He's amazing.
Josh Linkner:
Amazing. He's an incredible vocalist and performer. My wife has seen him a couple times too and just can't get enough. I can't either. It's awesome.
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Josh Linkner:
So now we're kind of shifting into speaking. So you've made a couple radical changes obviously, and now you've spent a lot of time out there speaking and inspiring audiences to action and making a difference. I'm curious, what are some of the common maybe negative playlists or limiting beliefs that you've seen other speakers possess? Maybe there's some overlaps, maybe they're different. And I guess I'm trying to see with that same change the playlist, what are some of the traps that you see speakers falling into and how could we upgrade those traps?
Susan Drumm:
Yeah, I think the I'm not enough is usually one that really resonates. I mean, you think it was speaker that just creates the courage it requires to step on stage and be exposed in that way. Everything's there. I so admire speakers for that reason. And it's also what challenged me. I want to overcome whatever fear that is of being seen in such a deep way. And I think the best speakers are so authentic and so connecting to their audiences and what that requires is this incredible strength and willingness to be seen. So I think the work needs to be done. What is it that you're afraid to be seen? Because it usually has to do with some judgment about yourself. I'm judging myself this way and therefore everyone else is going to judge me this way too. So if you can start to shift that belief, and in my book, I talk about using music to be able to shift that deep-seated belief, then you're just going to blow it open.
Josh Linkner:
The funny thing is I think there's been such a shift over the last 20 years. In the past keynote speakers I witnessed, they were like these exaggerated caricatures and there was these big cliches and platitudes, and actually what they tried to do is present all this success. Look at me in my pinstripe suit, and I closed every deal and there was no vulnerability. And now we think about that as kind of ridiculous. And the speakers that not only make the biggest impact but also enjoy the most success are the total opposite, that are willing to be vulnerable, that are willing to be exposed and seen, as you say, be willing to be really the authentic manifestation of themselves. And that's what actually inspires people to action and gets them to lean into your content, not trying to project unwavering bulletproof strength. Is that how you process that also? And what would you add to that?
Susan Drumm:
Totally. I think it is that vulnerability. People want to feel like it's human being is talking directly to me, but also understands my fear and my pain point. And they're not something that's above me, they're with me. And I think showing that you're with them in that way will require the level of ... Because if I can be vulnerable and on stage, then I'm inviting you who's listening to be vulnerable in your own life.
Josh Linkner:
Couldn't agree more. It's funny, I see musicians do this and actors as well when you're just learning the craft and speakers, actors tend to overact, musicians tend to overplay. Jazz musicians, there'll be an opening for a fill and everyone pounces, there's a guitar fill and a bass fill and a trumpet fill. They just all on top of each other. And ironically, when you see more mature musicians, they would rather let that section go altogether with some piece rather than all pouncing. And same thing with actors. As actors become better and more mature actors, they don't overact. They're much more natural. And the same is exactly true with speakers. When I was getting started, I for sure overdid it. I'm screaming to the back of the room and these big exaggerated, and then I think as you mature, you actually become much more natural, much more like you would in a conversation.
Susan Drumm:
Yes, yes. As an actor, it's like acting or I'm your speaker, I need to have lots of energy. But really that's a distraction from what is it that you don't want? What do I afraid of you really seeing about me? That's the deeper work.
Josh Linkner:
Yeah, it's so true. And furthermore, as you express emotions in any performance, an acting performance, a musical or a keynote, there's a range just like there's in life. And so the contours, the ups and downs, the nuances are what's fascinating. So if you come on and you turn it to 10 and never let go for 60 minutes, that just becomes boring and old after a while. It's funny, when musicians, if you just play fast all the time, it doesn't sound fast anymore. But if you play a fast flourish in the context of not fast, all of a sudden it sounds like this brilliant outburst. So it really has so much to do with context also.
Susan Drumm:
Yeah. And contrast, I mean, the brain likes variety, so we don't want to hear the same note played all the time. We need to hear that variety.
Josh Linkner:
So speaking of, again, I so much admire your work across multiple domains. You're kind of a multi-hyphenate, and I know we've spent a lot of time working on the Enneagram, and for those that are unfamiliar with that, maybe you could let us know what is the Enneagram and what can we as speakers learn from it? Why might it be helpful for us to go through that sort of process and understand where we sit?
Susan Drumm:
The Enneagram is a really powerful tool for self-development. And because I'm talking about understanding the self and really working with that, there is no better tool for that in my mind than Enneagram. And I know sometimes it gets lumped in with other assessments like DISC or Myers-Briggs, but it's very different because it's not showing as much what you do or behavior. It's why you're doing what you're doing, what is the underlying motivation? And when you can get to that level, that deeper layer, it provides you an understanding of where you can grow. And by the very model, it shows you exactly what other types you can learn the most from and where you grow. So the analogy I like to use is as human beings, we think we're chameleons and can see 360 degrees, but we can't. We have essential vision and we have a peripheral vision and where we point our focus of attention, what we're motivated to see, that's what we see and that becomes our superpower.
But there's something behind our head we can't see, and that's our blind spot. And so the Enneagram is a model that shows you what your natural inclination is to look at, what gift that brings, but also what liability that comes with because there's something you can't see. And often, it's a very deep tool because people will read their reports and go, "Wow, that was pretty hard hitting. I don't know about that blind spot." And I'm like, "Well, if you could see it wouldn't be a blind spot." But as they share it with people who know them, they're like, "Yeah, that's you."
Josh Linkner:
It's so good. So how does somebody go about doing the Enneagram as an assessment and getting the results and then sort of interpreting it and applying the learnings from those results?
Susan Drumm:
Well, you hit the nail on the head on the last part. So there's lots of different assessments out there, but what makes the Enneagram as rich as it is, it's also a little bit more difficult to type than other types of assessments. I have a really powerful assessment that I use in conjunction with a partner and that it's the application of it that really matters. So one, you want to get an accurate typing, and two, you want to know actually how to apply it because data is useless unless applied. So a lot of the stuff sort of becomes shelf-ware and doesn't even like, "Oh, great, I'm this," I always say, "And so what? What's the so what?" Really articulating what is a specific growth path for you, creating a development plan for yourself, all of that, I have a website called Enneagram Applied where someone can go through that process, they can get assessed, they get a detailed report, they get more video interpretation about how to apply that, and then helping them create a development plan for themselves on that.
Josh Linkner:
That's really good. I mean, for anyone listening, you obviously are very well qualified, and I highly recommend someone do that with you. But even if they didn't, just the notion of it's not just like a quiz like what's your romance color in the back of a Cosmo magazine. It's the kind of thing, do it right, get the interpretation of it and get some help so you can apply those learnings in the most effective manner. So I totally support that and I think it's really powerful. It got me wondering about you a little bit more back to your kind of career arc. So Harvard Law, London School, acting, music, you obviously coach these incredibly successful people. How does public speaking enter into this domain? What drew you to the stage? What's calling your heart to use the platform to continue to make impact when you've got so many other competing skills and capabilities and interests?
Susan Drumm:
Yes, maybe it's bringing back some of the acting roots from 20 years ago of being on stage, but that's just a small portion. Really it's getting message out on a broader platform because I'm working with these incredible leaders, and while that's been amazing meaningful work, I'm not reaching a larger audience. And so I don't want to just have my career be about working with these incredible leaders. I want it to be about reaching more people in lots of different venues and speaking to me is the way to do that. And there's just a passion on liveness that comes out while on stage with, I know you felt yourself.
Josh Linkner:
No question. I mean, to me, it's an amazing opportunity to learn, meet interesting people, to teach, to share, to perform, to create. So checks a lot of boxes I think for both of us. It's funny you said that too. I've talked to a lot of folks in this industry, and if you think about your one-on-one work is very deep, but kind of narrow, obviously by one-on-one, you're not doing it to a hundred thousand people at once. And then speaking is maybe more broad. You're reaching more people, but not quite as deep. A 60-minute keynote is very different than a ten-year one-on-one relationship with a coaching client. And so I think some of us who really crave impact also crave variety. And to be able to have both of those modalities be able to share big, inspiring, catalytic ideas with a lot of people and then also have the opportunity to go deep with a few is sort of giving both sides of the coin. And I'm sure it's fulfilling to you in both ways. Is that an accurate assessment?
Susan Drumm:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And also talking about vulnerability. I think that that was the biggest hurdle that I had to adjust to in becoming a speaker, which was my tendency to want to go deep and work directly with one or two and really go in there, whereas now that's not possible, but how do you still get the messaging and the aha moments across? But I love the variety, particularly because I'm a seven-
Josh Linkner:
The variety.
Susan Drumm:
... on the Enneagram and sevens love variety, which is the enthusiastic visionary if you don't know the Enneagram.
Josh Linkner:
Amazing. So you went from a Harvard and London school and coaching and such, and you entered professional speaking. What was surprising to you about it? Was there a big like, "Wow, I didn't expect it to be like this"? I'm just curious, as you entered this after such rich experience before hitting that stage, what were some of the biggest surprises?
Susan Drumm:
Well, certainly I think how dialed in, you four who have launched Impact Eleven in particular, you guys are really dialed in. And when I see that level of preparation and what it's taken to get there, it's really inspiring, but it really requires a lot of focus and intention, but also it's going to take some time. So bite off one thing that you can do and work on that and nail that and then go to the next. I think initially anyone could get a little bit overwhelmed, and so it's like you don't have to boil the ocean, and people don't become experts by overnight. They really don't. You have to move the chess pieces, so to speak.
Josh Linkner:
Man, it's great insight and inspiration really for all of us in the craft, because you see anything on the outside, it looks easy. If I see someone acting like, "Oh, what do you mean? They're just natural. It's easy." I see someone deliver opening statements in court like, "Oh, it's easy. They're just talented." And then we take something on and they're like, "Wow, there's actually a lot of moving parts here. There's a lot to learn." And so on the one hand, that can feel overwhelming, but on the other hand, it means that we don't have to be perfect on day one, that it is a learned skill. It's a new language, new lexicon, new art form that yeah, requires practice and stuff. But the good news is that practice and focus is what gets you to there. You don't have to be ordained as some cosmically amazing speaker at birth. It's a skillset and it's a practice that can be developed over time.
Susan Drumm:
Yes, yes, it is. And what they say, journey is part of the fun. Can you learn to love your journey as opposed to just see what's missing from you and the experts?
Josh Linkner:
Well said. So while you are now deep in this world, along with your other sort of multi-universes that you fall in, you've reinvented, you've taken on new chapters at many points throughout your career. What does the next couple years look like for you? How do you see your speaking practice evolving? What does sort of that next chapter look like for Susan?
Susan Drumm:
Yeah, so it's really focusing and transitioning a lot of the work from the consulting practice and workshops into the speaking and also taking the products that I've created. After 20 years, I've got so much content, I don't even know. There's volumes of content. And what I've been trying to figure out is how do I create that into some digital products that, again, will reach more people. And that's why Enneagram Applied is one of those where rather than me doing a personal debrief with someone, now they get a video from me based on their type, and I can scale that much more easily. So I think it's the courses and content that I'm taking from all the years of work that I've done, and then also going out there to speak and get more of the work. So that's going to become much more of the focus of my business in the future.
Josh Linkner:
Absolutely. Love it. Well, I want to say thank you for contributing today. Thank you for the important work that you've done across so many domains. I love that you're bringing music and the arts into business and leadership. I love that you are helping us confront our limiting beliefs and find better ways forward. I love that you're giving us insight to radical change into becoming an enlightened leader and enlightened speaker, and just want to thank you for helping us come up with a better playlist.
Susan Drumm:
Oh, thank you. And I love that you've created such a powerful community, so thank you for allowing me to be part of that.
Josh Linkner:
As we wrap up this inspiring episode with Susan Drumm, we're reminded of the profound impact that self-awareness, vulnerability, and authenticity can have on her own leadership and communication styles. Susan's journey from the legal and corporate world into the realm of acting, music and leadership development showcases the transformative power of embracing one's passions and the courage to pursue radical change.
Her work in helping leaders identify and rewrite their internal narratives is a testament to the possibility of growth and evolution regardless of where we find ourselves in our careers. The concept of the enlightened leader serves as a beacon for us all who is striving to connect more deeply with our audiences and lead with empathy, compassion, and authenticity. Thanks so much for joining us on Mic Drop for this enlightened conversation with Susan Drumm. May your insights and experiences encourage you to examine your own playlists, embrace your vulnerabilities, and step into your power as a leader and a keynote speaker. Here's to creating magic on and off-stage and to the continuous journey of self-discovery and transformation.
Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends, and don't forget to give us a five-star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit MicDropPodcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next Mic Drop moment.