Mic Drop

The Next Mountain (ft. Alison Levine)

Episode Summary

Alison Levine has climbed the world’s tallest peaks (literally), and in this week’s episodes she helps us climb the mountains we all face in the speaking industry— attracting meeting planners, avoiding critical mistakes, and boosting bookings even amidst adversity and upheaval.

Episode Notes

The Next Mountain (ft. Alison Levine)

Alison Levine has seen the view from the top of Mount Everest. But this week, we talk to her about her unique view from the top of the speaking game— and, more importantly— the strategies she used to get there.

OPENING QUOTE:

“I've heard speakers say, "Business professional? I wear jeans and a t-shirt. That's what I wear. That's my uniform. And I don't really care. That's what I'm going to show up in on stage." And I'm thinking, "If the client tells me they want me to wear a chicken suit, I will wear a chicken suit. Whatever they want me to wear, however they want me to show up, I'm there for them."”

-Alison Levine

GUEST BIO:

Alison Levine is one of the most booked speakers on the planet. Best known for leading the first women’s expedition to Mount Everest and climbing the tallest peak on each of the seven continents, Alison is now a bestselling author, visiting professor at West Point, expert on leadership and high-performing teams, and continues to be an active adventurer and survivalist.

Links

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[5:55] - It’s About Your Message, Not Your Resume

One attracts attention, the other changes lives

Before Alison submitted Everest, she found she had difficulty attracting attention for speaking engagements. But she quickly realized that the uniqueness of her message transcended anything she had or hadn’t accomplished— and that remained true even after she reached the peak of Everest and countless other peaks worldwide.

[11:41] - Instant Excitement vs. Long-Term Impact

Keep running through brick walls

While fondly recalling that one audience member from a West Point talk said Alison made him want to ‘run through brick walls,’ she emphasizes that great keynote speaking is about generating long-lasting impact— not just excitement in the room. The experts who can do that are the ones who have lasting and meaningful careers.

[26:54] - Deliver, Deliver, Deliver

Alison shares the key to managing bureau relationships

Alison learned early on that the best way to get bureau traction is to do whatever it takes to deliver for clients, audiences, and partners. She recognizes that wherever she is, she’s there to deliver outcomes not only for her own career but for the audiences, organizations, and bureaus surrounding her.

[30:01] - It’s Not About Who’s Onstage

It’s about who you’re serving

Alison Levine does the uncomfortable things, and that’s what makes her a cut above the rest. She hates schmoozing, but does it anyway in service of her clients and partners. She shows up to every 7am breakfast with a smile. We all could stand to learn from that example.

[36:56] - Beyond Stage Presence

Creating a message that shifts perspectives

Great speaking ability is one thing, but Alison stresses that your message has to offer something new— even if it’s not some earth-shattering insight but rather a new way of looking at problems, solutions, and mindsets. Deliver a unique message, and deliver it in a compelling way, and you’ll find a long career in speaking.

RESOURCES:

[2:27] Alison’s book, On the Edge
[14:30] Keppler Speakers Bureau

FOLLOW:

Follow Alison:

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ABOUT MIC DROP:

Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by 3 Ring Circus.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

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eSpeakers is where the speaking industry does business on the web. Speakers, speaker managers, associations, and bureaus use our tools to organize, promote and grow successful businesses. Event organizers think of eSpeakers first when they want to hire speakers for their meetings or events.

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Thousands of successful speakers, trainers, and coaches use eSpeakers to build their businesses and manage their calendars. Thousands of event organizers use our directories every day to find and hire speakers. Our tools are built for speakers, by speakers, to do things that only purpose-built systems can.

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Episode Transcription

Alison Levine:

I've heard speakers say, "Business professional? I wear jeans and a t-shirt. That's what I wear. That's my uniform. And I don't really care. That's what I'm going to show up in on stage." And I'm thinking, "If the client tells me they want me to wear a chicken suit, I will wear a chicken suit. Whatever they want me to wear, however they want me to show up, I'm there for them."

Josh Linkner:

Welcome to Mic Drop, the podcast for professional speakers. We cover the ins and outs of the business, helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages, at higher fees. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by eSpeakers. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Get ready for some inspiring mic drop moments together.

Josh Linkner:

Today's show is sponsored by 3 Ring Circus, the industry's top training and development program for professional speakers. They've helped hundreds of speakers launch or scale their speaking business, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. If you are looking to take your speaking business to the next level, they'll simply help you get there faster. To learn more and schedule a free 30 minute consultation, visit 3ringcircus.com/micdrop, that's 3, the number 3, ringcircus.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. If you want more audience as in organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use eSpeakers to manage and grow their business. When you use eSpeakers, you'll feel confident about your business, package yourself up for success, and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30 day trial visit eSpeakers.com/micdrop, that's eSpeakers.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

On today's show, I sit down with the legendary, Alison Levine. In addition to being one of the most booked speakers on the planet, she led the first women's expedition up Mount Everest. She's a New York Times bestselling author, a visiting professor at West Point, and an expert on leadership and high performing teams.

Josh Linkner:

In today's conversation, Alison shares her views on what specifically, meeting planners want to buy, especially coming out of the COVID crisis. She also shares the fastest way to tank a professional speaking career. She'll give us insights on the one thing she focuses on to get herself booked a hundred plus times a year, consistently, even during COVID. And what advice she has for newer speakers on both content and marketing.

Josh Linkner:

On today's episode, get ready to be inspired and energized with an inside look at one of the most successful speakers in the biz. My good friend, Alison Levine, welcome to Mic Drop.

Alison Levine:

Thank you. Great to be here with you.

Josh Linkner:

So, Alison, you are one of the most booked, most admired keynote speakers out there. I've been so excited for our conversation today. Before we even dive in on you as a speaker, can you just give us the highlights? I mean, I can't do it justice. West Point, climbing Mount Everest, Goldman Sachs, I can't even keep track. Just give us the highlights of you, before you were a speaker?

Alison Levine:

Dog lover, that's important.

Josh Linkner:

Yes.

Alison Levine:

I know, and you're one too. Okay. So my background is that, I served as the Team Captain for the first American Women's Everest Expedition. And then I climb the highest peak on all seven continents, which is called The Seven Summits. And then I ski to both the North and the South Pole. So when you climb the seven summits and ski to both poles, it's called, Completing the Adventure Grand Slam. So in the adventure world, that's kind of something that maybe some people might aspire to.

Alison Levine:

And then also, I served on the board of the Coach K Center on Leadership and Ethics at Duke University for a number of years. And served on the part-time faculty at West Point in the Department of Behavioral Sciences and Leadership. And I am currently on the faculty there for the Thayer Leadership Group at West Point, which is an executive education program that shares west point leadership best practices with corporate executives. So, that's the quick and dirty.

Josh Linkner:

New York Times best seller, all these amazing things. But the reason I wanted to bring all that up, is that when people see you and see all those credentials, they think that the credentials are all it takes. My belief is that, you would've been a wildly successful speaker, had you none of those credentials. And I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are for those that are either newer in the industry or even further along, how important are those markers of credibility versus things that you can do separately to create them for your audience and your content?

Alison Levine:

So a lot of people don't realize this, but I was a super busy keynote speaker before I summited Everest. And I attempted Everest in 2002 and I didn't make it. And initially, I was trying to get on the radar of various speaker bureaus. But nobody wanted to talk to me because their thought was, "So, you didn't climb Mount Everest. We have people on the roster who did climb Mount Everest? What makes you interesting? Have you chopped off any body parts? Can you..." Because Aron Ralston's out there on the speaking circuit, the guy from 127 Hours. He's a friend of mine now, and he cut off his arm in Blue John Canyon. And so, I didn't really have anything. I had a failed Everest attempt, but that certainly wasn't going to get me noticed by any meeting planners or any audiences.

Alison Levine:

And so, what I figured out is, it's all about your messaging. It's not about what you've accomplished, it's about what your messaging is. And can you deliver relevant information in a compelling fashion so that it resonates with an audience? That is much more important than what's on your resume. They don't care what you've accomplished, they care about making sure their audience is going to walk away at the end of your session with information that's going to help them be better at something.

Josh Linkner:

It's so beautifully said. And I think that's the mistake that many people make. They think being a speaker, it's all about you. Look what I did, me, me, me. And really, it's not about-

Alison Levine:

No.

Josh Linkner:

... look what I did, it's, look what you can do. And you're there-

Alison Levine:

Right.

Josh Linkner:

... as an act of service and contribution. Would you maybe expand on that and maybe where you've seen other speakers fall down, making it to me centric versus audience centric?

Alison Levine:

Well, it's interesting too, when I was trying to break into the business, early in my career, they had a lot of really good Everest speakers out there that were... And so even if I had climbed Everest, they were like, "Yeah, we don't need another Everest speaker. We got really good ones out there." So, you need to differentiate yourself. And you need to kind of find your own niche.

Alison Levine:

And I think, and you mention this, but the mistake that a lot of people make is, "I've done this, I've done this, I've done this." And I have people approach me all the time. "I just ran a... I survived cancer and ran three marathons.", which is amazing and so admirable. But unfortunately, that's not enough. If you stand up there and just talk about yourself... And I remember being in audiences where we had keynote speakers when I was in corporate America. And we would have amazing speakers and they would get up there and... An Olympic athlete, which is amazing. It doesn't get any better than that. When you talk about the achievement category, to be an Olympian, that is incredible.

Alison Levine:

But when I would listen to Olympians stand on stage and talk about out how, when they were four years old, their family moved them to the Olympic training center and they've been vegetarian. And they have their nutritionist and all their trainers, and they worked out for four hours in the morning and four hours at night. And they just talked about how dedicated they were and how committed they were and how... Their to being Olympian. And I'm thinking, "Okay, that's amazing. But I just want to like have a meltdown in my cube at work every day. So, what do you know about what I'm going through? What do you know about my struggles? You've lived this elite life, and good for you, but how does that help me?"

Alison Levine:

And that really stayed with me. And it really made me realize that time is our most valuable asset. It's a finite asset, right? So as a speaker, what I'm thinking about before I get on stage every single time, what I'm thinking about is, "What am I going to deliver to this audience so that they feel glad that they spent that 45 minutes with me or that hour with me?" I want them to walk away and feel like there's nowhere else they would've rather been than in that room, listening to Alison Levine. And if Alison Levine just talks about Alison Levine, nobody wants to listen to that. That gets old after 30 seconds.

Alison Levine:

So you talk about the audience. I go in every time, "What am I going to deliver to them that will make them grateful that we spent this time together?" And so, it has to be about the audience. You have to help them become better, overcome a challenge. You have to give them something to walk away with. And it can't just be your life story, because nobody's any better for having a speaker talk about how great they are.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. To me, that's always been the biggest fear. The audience walks away, even if they had a nice time and they laughed and cried, but they shrugged their shoulders and say, "Well, now what?" I mean, that's a fail.

Alison Levine:

Right.

Josh Linkner:

And I want to run something about you, Alison. I've thought about this a lot and I'd love your opinion if you agree or disagree. So, I've always thought, in business you have key metrics. What are the metrics that you're aiming for? What are the desired outcomes? So I always thought, "What are the desired outcomes of a good keynote?" And to me anyway, I think there's two of them. There's number one, in the next 48 hours, are people energized? Are they calling their spouse and saying, "Oh, my God. I just learned from this amazing person named Alison Levine. Unbelievable." Are they talking about it at the cocktail hour? So, do you do a good job to give them a big dose of energy and inspiration?

Josh Linkner:

But then the second key metric is, six months later are they still referencing the talk? Did they learn something that they're applying? Did it make a difference in their life or their business? And to me, that's the ideal balance, hitting both the near term, energizing effect and the long term sort of sustainable takeaway effect. How does that sit with you? And do you have a different strategy?

Alison Levine:

I agree. It's funny, I recently... I still do some lecturing at West Point. Even though I'm working in the executive education program, I still do some lecturing for the cadets in the classroom. And one of the most hilarious messages I got at the end of their school year, last year, one of the professors in the department forwarded it to me, but one of the young cadets emailed him and said, "Sir, thank you..."

Alison Levine:

... to me, but one of the young cadets emailed him and said, "Sir, thank you so much for bringing in Alison Levine. I feel like I could run through a brick wall right now." I was like, "Wear a helmet. Don't hurt yourself." But so I like that sense of motivation. So I like those, but what I like even more is when I get an email from someone that said, "Hey, you spoke at our company seven years ago, and I have never forgotten what you told us about how to redefine progress in our lives or how to look at failure. That's really stuck with me. Because of that, I," and they'll tell me a new story. So those are the messages that I love the most, the ones where ...

Alison Levine:

It's easy to get people fired up, right? You can get people fired up, but what you want is some long term impact. You want them to think about challenges in their life differently or whatever your topic is, whatever your goal is as a speaker. You want that to stick with them, so that seven years later, when they're faced with a challenging situation, they remember your words. They look at that challenge differently and they get through it. Then they reach out and say, "Because of you, I was able to accomplish this or whatever."

Alison Levine:

So those are the ones that really mean the most to me. I want to teach people. I want to entertain people. I want them to laugh. I want them to enjoy the time together. So I want them to learn. I want them to laugh, but I want them to make meaningful change in their life.

Josh Linkner:

It's so good. By the way, not only is that your desire, heartfelt and helping your audience, that's what meeting planners want to buy. They don't want to buy only pure entertainment. They don't want to buy only depth and substance. They want the intersection of those two. I think you've done such a beautiful job of bringing that to market. A question for you. You climbed all these mountains. You're this amazing accomplished adventurer. Clearly, you had a trading regimen. I'm sure you've worked on your skill and your dexterity and your fitness and all that stuff.

Josh Linkner:

So you've also climbed the mountain of the speaking industry. You're in the top, I'm sure, 0.1% of all speakers or whatever. What is your training regimen to not only climb the first one, to become a great speaker, but to stay a great speaker? Could you elaborate on your training regimen and maybe what you borrowed from, from training in these other areas of life?

Alison Levine:

Sure. So when I think about the speaking industry, I think there's a hell of a lot of really good speakers out there. Really, really good speakers. So being a great speaker, that's expected. That's not out of the ordinary. That's expected, right? If you're going to work, you have to be a really good speaker. If you're going to get booked a lot, you have to be a really good speaker. Being a really good speaker doesn't set you apart, right? That's your status quo if you're a really good speaker. That's how I think of it. What sets you apart-

Josh Linkner:

I don't mean to interrupt, but I've always said I so much agree. I love this term that that competence is not a competitive advantage. That's the ante to play. You have to be a great speaker, but that is not a competitive advantage.

Alison Levine:

No. That's expected, but what sets you apart are, and this is what I've tried to think about is, what am I going to do to make sure that this, first of all, not just that the audience said, because you give a good speech, blah, blah, blah. That's expected. Everyone can do that. But what can I do to make sure that the whole Alison Levine experience is memorable for them? Really my ultimate goal ... So I know a lot of people don't work with bureaus, and good for you. A lot of people don't need bureaus. I think that's amazing.

Alison Levine:

I am represented by a bureau. I'm exclusive with Keppler. I love being represented by a bureau, so I need bureau business. So what I'm thinking every time I go in is what I'm going to do to make sure that this client goes back to the bureau that booked me and gives them more business. So my goal is to get the bureau more business. I'm also Keppler's most co-brokered speaker. I get booked by other bureaus more than any other speaker on their roster. My goal is to make sure that that agent gets more business, because if I blow it at all, it's okay. I'm getting paid. You know what? That agent may not get any more business from that client because of some interaction with me.

Alison Levine:

So it's the whole overall experience. It's making sure that I stop by the production table and talk to all the AB guys, make sure that I'm the person that says yes to everything. When I have a 2:00 PM speech, do I want to go down for the 7:00 AM breakfast? No, I don't want to go downstairs for the 7:00 AM breakfast. But you know what? I'm going to go. Because if I don't go and Peyton Manning goes, then the client's like, "Wow, Peyton Manning came down for the 7:00 AM breakfast. He's famous. Allison Levine, who's she? She's not coming."

Alison Levine:

Maybe then whoever booked Peyton Manning is going to get the repeat business. Maybe the agent that booked me is not going to get the repeat business because they're thinking, "Oh, this agent couldn't get their speaker to come to this breakfast." So I try to be the person that will do more than just get on stage and speak. I never, ever, ever. I used to do this. I made this mistake. I used to book a flight pretty close to when I got off stage. Okay, let me look at the flights. What's the closest one, the soonest one I can take after I'm done speaking?

Alison Levine:

So a lot of times, I had to speak and then run out of the room. Then someone in the audience is following me. They're like, "Hey, Alison, quick question." I'm like, "I'm so sorry. I have to catch a flight," and I'm racing off. Now all they remember is I'm the speaker that blew them off. I'm the speaker that didn't have time for them. Then no matter how good you are on stage, all they remember is that you didn't care. So I never book flights anymore, right after I get off stage. I want to allow myself this cushion so that when I get off stage, I can interact with the audience. So I can as answer people's questions and take the selfies and the high fives and the hugs and the autographs and whatever the audience wants, because you have to make them feel special.

Alison Levine:

If you're just the speaker that runs out, that's it, right? You're the person that you did your speech. You're going to collect your paycheck and you're gone. But when you also say to the client, "Hey, oh, I know there's a break after in my speech. Do you mind if I hang around during the coffee break and answer some questions?" They really appreciate that. It just shows them that I care about actually connecting with the people. It's a bit hard for me because I'm an extreme introvert. Extreme, extreme introvert. So I'm not always super comfortable interacting with big crowds. But I do it.

Alison Levine:

I do it because I know that they're not paying for a speech. They're paying for the Alison Levine experience. If any part of that experience goes south, then the speech just doesn't even matter. Right? Maybe if I say, "Oh, no, I don't want to do the meat and greet. Oh, no, I don't want to answer questions. I run out of there." Will the speaker that stayed to answer the questions, maybe that agent that booked that speaker is, again, now going to get the future business? The agent that booked me might not because of that interaction. So every time I go there, I know my job, my number one goal is to get more business for whoever booked me. That's what's going on in my head.

Josh Linkner:

It's so good. There's just so much wisdom there. The notion of doing something that's uncomfortable, even though it's uncomfortable. The notion of you're at the top of your field, but instead of just mailing it in and getting cocky about it, you still want to make sure you're over-delivering. The notion of service, not only to your audience, but your channel partners. I'm not the least surprised, of course, at your success.

Josh Linkner:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions in annual income while driving massive impact on audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow route with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you are serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at 3 Ring Circus, they can help. From optimizing your marketing and business efforts to crafting your ideal positioning, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills, 3 Ring Circus is the only speaker training and development program run by current high level speakers at the top of their field.

Josh Linkner:

That's why the major bureaus like Washington Speakers Bureau, Premiere Speakers, Speak Inc, Executive Speakers, Harry Walker Agency, Keppler, Gotham Artists, and GDA all endorse and participate in 3 Ring Circus. From interactive boot camps to one-on-one coaching, 3 Ring Circus will help you reach your full potential in the speaking biz, and they'll get there faster. For a free 30 minute consultation visit 3ringcircus.com/micdrop. That's 3ringcircus.com/micdrop.

Josh Linkner:

I want to chat a little bit, though, about the bureau concept. So there's a lot of angst in the speaker industry, as you know, about bureaus and there's different relationships. I'm an independent speaker. So I have the privilege of working with Keppler, who you work with, and many other bureaus. There are some folks that are managed-

Alison Levine:

Yeah, they're big fans. They're huge fans of yours.

Josh Linkner:

Oh, well, likewise. From Warren and Jim and Kelly, the whole crew is just amazing. But so then the next model is someone who's a managed speaker. Maybe they're managed by a speaker manager and they're represented to other agencies. But you are an exclusive speaker. So you are exclusive with with Keppler Speakers, an incredible, high integrity, top bureau. Don't have enough positive adjectives because they're just beautiful, amazing people. Could you walk us through, though? How did you decide to go exclusive with a particular bureau, and how's that worked out? What are the pros and cons that others should be thinking about as they consider that same decision for their own career?

Alison Levine:

So being exclusive with a bureau is not for everyone, right? So I think the way you do it is great. You can work with all these different bureaus, and they all book you and they all love you clearly, which is how you do the volume of business that you do, which I don't know anyone that's doing as much business as you are. It's really amazing what you've accomplished in this business. So kudos to you.

Alison Levine:

But for me, what happened was Keppler booked me the first year that I got on their radar. I think they booked me 40 times or 42 times or something. The next closest bureau to them, I think it booked me 17 times. Keppler came to me and they said, "We booked you 40 times. That's more than we book a lot of our exclusive speakers. So you really need to be exclusive with us. Otherwise, we can't really keep booking you at this volume." Because what happens is, is if you're not exclusive with Keppler, let's say they book me. You know this, but just for the people listening, let's say Keppler books me for ABC company. I speak for them, and they've worked really, really hard to get me in there. They've-

Alison Levine:

And I speak for the... And they've worked really, really hard to get me in there. They've been pitching me forever and following up and following up, and created this client relationship. And then the client books me, and I do the speech and it's great. And someone in the audience, who's one of their VIP partners or channel partners or vendors or whatever, they hear me at that, and they think, "Oh, we want to book Alison for our company." And then they book me through another bureau. And then my bureau's got all that work, and we got her in there, and now the business is going to somebody else. And so when you're exclusive, all the business goes to that one bureau. And you can do what's called co-brokering, which is when other bureaus... So other bureaus can book me, but they have to book me through Keppler.

Alison Levine:

So their client deals with that bureau, let's just say Washington Speakers Bureau. WSB's client calls them and says, "We want Alison," and WSB has to call Keppler and say, "We have a client that wants Alison." And then they split their commission. So it's not ideal because they have to split their commission. And I always say there's so many great speakers out there who aren't exclusive they're going to book before they book someone else who's exclusive. But those bureaus like WSB, they have integrity and they want to serve their clients well. So when a client calls and says, "We want Alison Levine," WSB says, "No problem. We can get you Alison Levine. We'll make that happen. If that's who you want, we're going to make that happen." And then they have to split their commission.

Josh Linkner:

But for you, it worked out great. I mean, obviously there's no shortage in demand. You're-

Alison Levine:

I do a ton of co-brokered business. Normally, 20% of my business is co-brokered. This year, for some reason with virtual it's even more, and I think that's because there's a set of speakers who are good on stage, but the number of those speakers who are also good at doing virtual is a bit smaller. And some speakers don't want to do virtual. So my co-brokered business is through the real right now.

Josh Linkner:

That's amazing. And maybe not for you, because you're in high demand. People say, "I want Alison Levine." And you're right. A high integrity bureau like Washington Speakers Bureau will, of course, make sure that happens even though they're taking less commission on that particular event. But if someone asks, and I don't want to pick on WSB because they're wonderful, but a different bureau, let's say, and they say, "Hey, I'm looking for a really good speaker that's upbeat to speak to my leadership team. I'm not really sure on the topic yet. I don't have anyone in mind. Would you recommend a few ideas?" Now that bureau's got a dilemma. They could say, "I could recommend speaker A and get my whole commission. I could recommend Alison, who's awesome and their client's going to love her. Yeah, but I only get half my commission." And do you think that being exclusive with your bureau creates any friction in the marketplace, either for you or other exclusive speakers?

Alison Levine:

I think with Keppler, it doesn't cause any friction because of their high integrity, because they have such good relationships with the other bureaus out there. But I know there's other bureaus that have exclusives where it doesn't work so seamlessly. But Keppler, I kind of feel like they think, "Look, we all want people to do well in this business." Frenemies, where they have good relationships with the bureaus, but they're also competitors. But in the end, I don't think it causes friction with Keppler, but sometimes... This just happened this week where a Keppler agent had been working on a booking for me for a really long time, and then for some reason the client went through another bureau and the other bureau got it. But Keppler's just happy. They're like, "Look, we're just happy that you're out there, that you're working so much, that you're so busy."

Alison Levine:

And they know, I mean, it happens. It's just when I say, "Oh, I feel so bad. I know you worked on this for a long time, and this other bureau just booked it." And they're like, "You know what? It's just the business. That's the way the business is. Moving on." And so they kind of understand that's the way it is. But occasionally I'm surprised sometimes when I do conference calls with clients and the other bureau is on the phone, and I'll say to the client, "How did you guys hear about me?" And usually it's, "Oh, our VP heard you at this event." And a couple of times I've just had them say, "Oh, this XYZ bureau recommended you." And I'm thinking, wow, that's pretty amazing for another bureau to recommend me knowing that they're only going to get half the commission.

Alison Levine:

But here's the thing. If they know I'm a perfect fit, if they know I'm going to hit a home run, if they know I'm going to bend over backwards to make sure that client feels incredibly special, they know they're going to get that client's business going forward every time. If they send another speaker out there and they get full commission on that booking, but the speaker maybe doesn't go out of their way that much, or maybe the audience doesn't love them that much, they might not get the next booking from that client. They might not get it.

Alison Levine:

And I always tell people when they think about working with bureaus, "You better hit a home run every single time, because if you don't hit a home run, you might be costing that agent future commission." And most of these agents are paid on straight commission. Not all of them, but most of them. And so if you don't deliver in a way that makes this client want to go back to that agent, you maybe just cost them a more mortgage payment because you were rude to the AV guy, or because you ran out when somebody was trying to ask you a question, or because you didn't have time for whatever, and you didn't want to come to the breakfast.

Alison Levine:

You might think, "Oh yeah, I'm tired. I don't want to come to the breakfast." What you need to be thinking about is, "Yes, I'm tired, but me not going to the breakfast might mean that this agent who was kind enough to book me and to get me this speaking fee, I might be hurting them by not doing everything that the client asks." And so that's what I always have in mind, is I'm here. I mean, yeah, I'm there to deliver a good speech. That's just a no-brainer. I'm here to make sure that whoever booked me makes more money in the future. That's the way I look at it.

Josh Linkner:

Your sense of generosity, of humility, of service is just remarkable. And I think that that's such a great model. A lot of times people think when they get to the top, they can be these egocentric jerks and boss everybody around. You're exactly the opposite, which in my opinion, not only because of your talent [inaudible 00:28:27] is why you stay so successful.

Alison Levine:

No, but I have to tell you... Sorry to interrupt. But when I first met you, I remember I heard your name for so long, for so long. Josh Linkner, one of the most successful speakers, on and on and on, from audiences, from meeting planners, from bureaus. And then we were finally at an event together, and you had just finished speaking. I didn't hear your whole speech, but I got there for part of it, and then you were leaving. I'm like, oh, I'm going to go say hi to Josh Linkner. I finally get to meet him. And you were so kind. You were so humble. And I was like, "Oh my God, that speech was amazing. You crushed it." You were like, "Oh, really? Thank you so much."

Alison Levine:

And I'll just never forget just the humility that you showed. And I appreciated it so much, and it resonated with me so much. And then I'm like, that's why this guy's so busy, because he has humility, he wants to deliver, and he's kind. Kindness goes so far. Yes, you have to be a really, really good speaker, but you also want to be the person that says yes. You want to be the person that says yes, because just by saying yes, that might mean that you're going to put more money in that agent's pocket. And that agent got you that opportunity, so you owe them. You owe them, and you need to... I always feel like I'm so grateful for the opportunity.

Josh Linkner:

You and I share that, and I thank you so much for saying that. It's super kind of you, but we share that. And I think that kindness and compassion doesn't deteriorate success. It enables success. And most people get that wrong, or too many people get that wrong. And I think as a speaker, again, it's not about you. It's about those that you serve of.

Alison Levine:

Yes.

Josh Linkner:

So just... Oh, go ahead.

Alison Levine:

No, I just want to mention one more thing along those lines, is I know a lot of speakers who they don't take that approach. They think it's all about them. So when they see a briefing sheet where, for example, the client is requesting business professional attire... And I've heard speakers say, "Business professional? I wear jeans and a T-shirt. That's what I wear. That's my uniform, and I don't really care. That's what I'm going to show up in on stage." And I'm thinking, if the client tells me they want me to wear a chicken suit, I will wear a chicken suit. Whatever they want me to wear, however they want me to show up, I'm there for them.

Alison Levine:

I'm there to cater to them. I'm not there to be like, "I'm Alison Levine, and this is what I wear. And if you don't like it, too bad." But you'd be surprised at how many speakers take that approach. And you can't have longevity in this business unless you're super, super famous. If you're super famous, you can. If you're Will Smith, wear whatever you want to wear on stage. You can get away with it. But if you're Alison Levine, no. You better be planning. Every single aspect of your appearance better be planned around what is going to be best for this client.

Josh Linkner:

Well, I sure hope that you and I can both wear matching chicken suits to an event, because I'm in 100%. We'll do it together. So hey, switching gears for a second, if you were... And I know a lot of times, up and coming speakers come to you. They're inspired by you. They want to be the next Alison Levine. What advice do you have in today's post-COVID soon, hopefully, conditions? What advice do you have to the newer speaker that's taking it seriously? They're committed to the craft. They're not just mailing it in. They want to grow into what you've achieved. What are some of the tips and tricks that you would recommend to the emerging speaker?

Alison Levine:

Sometimes it's hard because people are so enthusiastic about getting into the business, and I really have an appreciation for that, but I tell people to sit on the sidelines until they have all the materials they need to market themselves professionally. And what I mean by that is, when you have a crappy video, you don't want anyone to see that video, because sometimes people are only going to give you one shot. You got one shot. They're going to look at your video one time. And if you send a video that's not very good, then you're out.

Alison Levine:

You're out of the running, and they might not be willing to look at another video of you in the future. You just blew your shot. And so I tell people, "Wait until you have really professional-looking video and good messaging, because you may only have one shot with these meeting planners, or especially with bureau agents. If you get lucky enough to get your materials in front of an agent, you better have your ducks in a row." And so that's the hardest part. I'm like, "Don't even approach any agents until you have everything ready." And I had someone the other day send me her speaker reel, and it had no speaking footage on-

Alison Levine:

... Her speaker reel, and it had no speaking footage on it. It was her hiking with her dog, and looking cute in her yoga outfit, and paddle boarding, and talking about how she wants to inspire everybody out there to live their best life. And that's great, but unless you have speaking footage, you're not going to get paid to speak. And unless you have good speaking footage, you shouldn't be out there marketing yourself because you may blow your chance. If you're interviewing for a really important job that you really, really want, and you show up with this resume with a ton of typos and it just looks for really sloppy and there's spelling errors and you hand that to the person, they're going to look at it and be like, okay, next. And you may not get another interview after that because there's too many other people that want an interview. There's too many other people in line. And so, I really stress that people, I know you're enthusiastic, I know you want to get in front of meeting planners and you want to get in front of bureau agents, but wait until you have all your materials completed in a professional manner before you ever approach anyone, because you don't want to blow your shot.

Josh Linkner:

That's so true. And one other thing I just want to touch on before I say goodbye, and again, I'm so grateful for your time today, Alison. It was just amazing to-

Alison Levine:

Can I come back again?

Josh Linkner:

Oh, yeah.

Alison Levine:

I want to come back another time.

Josh Linkner:

I want to just, I'm going to come hang out with you. Every time we chat, I just love it. My question to you was around content. So a lot of times we have the great pleasure of working with emerging speakers and helping them kind of launch and scale their business. And one thing I see all the time is people, they're sort of saying platitudes or cliches. So, "Hey, the title of my speech is Go For It. And pillar number one, you got to work hard. And number two, you got to care about your teammates". And these are good things. You should work hard. You should care about your team, nothing wrong with that. But we already know that.

Alison Levine:

Right.

Josh Linkner:

And to me, I think there's a cap on fee and volume as a speaker if you're only regurgitating what's common wisdom versus saying something original, saying something with a point of view, or saying something that's a truism, but saying it in a fresh and different way. So I'd love, Alison, for your opinion on rehashing what's already been considered standard operating procedure and thought leadership versus forging new ground.

Alison Levine:

Right. So even if you have a really good speaker video, if your messaging is stuff that's already been out there a lot, they're just going to see that and go, "Oh, that speaker is pretty good but heard this before. This is nothing new". So a lot of the material in my speech is contrarian, right? It's stuff that kind of goes against what you would read in management or leadership books. I talk about why it's good to have a big ego. Why a strong ego is important, and by the way, having a strong ego doesn't mean you treat people poorly. It doesn't mean you're arrogant. It just means you're good and you know that you're good. So I talk about the importance of why ego is good. I talk about why sometimes you have to go backwards to make progress and why we need to redefine the way we look at progress and what counts as progress.

Alison Levine:

And so I have things in my speech that are a little bit different. And so I think that's a thing. We talked about being a great speaker, being good on stage, okay, you're at ground zero. You can start at ground zero, okay. You're not behind. You're not behind if you're a great speaker. Being a great speaker is the minimum that you have to have to be in this business. And then your messaging. You want to make sure it's stuff that, it doesn't have to necessarily be totally unique talking points, but they need to then be presented in a unique way. You need to tell people things that are going to make them think differently about the problems or challenges that they're facing, or think differently about the way they're going to approach something new.

Alison Levine:

So, I mean, if you look at the stuff in my speech, there's nothing earth shattering and that, "God, we never heard that before". It's, "Wait, I never thought about it that way before". Right? It doesn't have to be something new, but when they say, "I never really thought about it that way before", then that has impact, right? Then that's going to get you booked. But being a good speaker, that's the minimum that you have to have to be competitive in this industry.

Josh Linkner:

So true. And by the way, we often help people with this. I love this phrase. Most people think blank, but the truth is blank.

Alison Levine:

Yes.

Josh Linkner:

And that's back to your contrarian point, that if you're revealing surprising truths, it's much more captivating than spouting out platitudes and cliches.

Alison Levine:

Right.

Josh Linkner:

So I have a question for you and probably our last question before we say goodbye. And again, I could chat all day and I can't wait for our next chat too. So you aspired to do great things. You climb Mount Everest after a couple of attempts. You now summited all these peaks. I mean, amazing. So I know that you're goal oriented, you're proud of your accomplishments, but I'm sure you're seeking the next thing. What does the next five years look like for Alison Levine? What do you hope to accomplish in this next leg of your race, having already accomplished so much in the speaking industry?

Alison Levine:

Well, it's funny because I tell people this and then they feel kind of let down. They expect me to kind of have a more ambitious answer. But I really love dogs so much and my goal in five years, I want to have a dog rescue for older dogs. I want to have a dog rescue for older Labrador retrievers and golden retrievers that are 10 years old and over. And for me, that is what brings me happiness, when I'm around a bunch of dogs. And so, I love my job so much. I love being a speaker. I love getting people to think about things differently. I love making people laugh. I love making people feel like they can run through a brick wall, but I also, I need to balance that with my downtime. So my downtime is the dog. The Zen dog ranch, which is kind of what I want to do down the road. So there's that.

Alison Levine:

And then I'm working on a documentary film about the first female Sherpa to summit Mount Everest. So I think another way ... Look, you can only be on so many stages so many days, although you seem to be able to be on four stages in one day, which I know you've done. That is amazing. But I feel like I can only be in so many places at one time. And so, if there's a way I can inspire people without having to be there in person, then I really want to do that. So that's why I'm working on this documentary about this very inspiring woman named Basan Lama Sherpa who is the first female Sherpa to summit Mount Everest. She has this amazing story.

Alison Levine:

So that's what I want to do in the next five years is just figure out a way to share stories so that I can kind of scale this idea of inspiring people. Because like I said, I can only be in one place at one time. So if I can scale it by producing other content to inspire people, then that's what I want to focus on in the next five years.

Josh Linkner:

That's so good. And I just hope, it'll be more than five years, but someday at the end of our careers, I hope that you open up a little Zen rescue for older speakers, not just older dogs, and the two of us we're going to hang out together many years in the future. Alison Levine, you're a beautiful person, an amazing, talented speaker, a total pro. It's just an honor to hang out with you. How can people learn more about you if they want to learn more about you and your work?

Alison Levine:

So I'm not on social media a ton, I'm on there a little bit, but you can reach out to me on social like Twitter. Instagram is Levine_Alison. But I have a website at alisonlevine.com. You can always go to my website and read more or learn more there. And feel free, if people have questions, please feel free to reach out to me. Again, there's a contact form on my website. You can reach out through that. If you email me through my website, your email is going to come straight to me, not to my assistant, just because I don't have one. But I promise, if you reach out, I'll definitely get back to you. So feel free to reach out. And I just want to say, I love this industry so much and I want as many people as possible to be working in this industry and to just feel the satisfaction that people like you and I feel, Josh, when we're able to reach so many people with our messaging.

Josh Linkner:

Well, alisonlevine.com if you want to reach out, and thank you again for your generosity. I think you've inspired a lot of us to climb our next mountain. Thanks again, Alison.

Josh Linkner:

Is it just me or do you now love Alison Levine as much as I do? Here are a few key takeaways that really resonated with me. Number one, despite her incredible success, she gushes humility. She's there to serve, not to boast. She'll do whatever it takes to deliver for her client, the audience, and her bureau partners. No wonder she's booked so much. Number two, Alison is willing to do the things that aren't comfortable. As an introvert, she hates schmoozing, but does it anyway in service of her clients and partners. She doesn't want to go to the 7:00 AM breakfast, but shows up every time with a smile. I think the mark of a true professional is to deliver with total flawless consistency, no matter how much you feel like it in the moment. And number three, I was also struck by the true joy that Alison exudes. It's contagious. It isn't some BS act. That's who she is. So when you combine an infectious enthusiasm with rich substantive content, with humility and service, with incredible stage skills, well, you get one of the most successful speakers in our field. You get Alison Levine.

Josh Linkner:

Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends, and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers, and a big thanks to our sponsored Three Ring Circus. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks for listening. And here's to your Mic Drop moment.