In this episode of Mic Drop, Smiley, a leading expert on belonging and human connection, dives into the importance of these concepts in today's fast-paced, hybrid work environment. Smiley discusses the tangible business impacts of fostering a culture of belonging and how it drives productivity, reduces turnover, and enhances overall job satisfaction. With a deep understanding of how human connection influences workplace dynamics, Smiley shares practical strategies for building strong, connected teams. His insights are invaluable for anyone looking to create a more inclusive and supportive organizational culture.
Smiley is a highly sought-after speaker and thought leader known for his expertise in belonging and human connection. With a background in understanding workplace dynamics and the effects of loneliness on productivity, Smiley has become a key voice in promoting the value of connection in the corporate world. His work is grounded in solid data, making a compelling case for why fostering belonging is not just a 'soft' skill but a crucial driver of business success. Smiley's engaging style and authentic approach have made him a favorite among audiences looking to create more cohesive and supportive environments.
The Business Case for Belonging: Smiley breaks down the critical importance of belonging in the workplace, presenting data-driven insights that show how a strong sense of connection can significantly boost productivity, reduce turnover, and improve overall job satisfaction. His approach helps organizations see belonging as a strategic priority, not just a nice-to-have.
Staying True to Your Message: Authenticity is at the heart of Smiley’s message. He shares how being genuinely aligned with your message is crucial for impact. For Smiley, this means living the principles he talks about—creating connections, fostering inclusivity, and making people feel valued in every interaction. This takeaway emphasizes the power of congruence between your message and how you show up in the world.
Building Deep Relationships: Smiley emphasizes that success in speaking and business is deeply rooted in building strong, meaningful relationships. Whether with clients, colleagues, or audiences, Smiley shows that paying attention, showing appreciation, and fostering genuine connections are key elements of his success and can be for others too.
Innovating with the Workplace Belonging Toolkit: Smiley introduces his Workplace Belonging Toolkit, a practical resource designed to help organizations continue the work of fostering connection beyond the keynote. The toolkit is an innovative way to provide ongoing value to clients, ensuring that the lessons from his talks are actionable and long-lasting.
Learn more about Smiley Poswolsky:
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ABOUT MIC DROP:
Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.
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Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.
On the business front, he’s been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he’s helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He’s twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.
While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world’s foremost experts on innovation. Josh
is the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he’s on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.
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Smiley Poswolsky:
I was the kid at school who would find the person in the side of the room that wasn't hanging out with anyone and was like, Hey, we're playing over here. You want to come hang out? Like that actually is a really important person in the business world. The person that can kind of see who's feeling left out or who's feeling a little bit of disagreement, or who's not being seen, not being heard, who's feedback isn't being included. That's a very important person to have in a boardroom.
Josh Linkner:
Hey friends, Josh Linkner here. Delighted to bring you season three of Mic Drop, the number one podcast for professional speakers and thought leaders on the show. We connect with experts at the top of the field unpacking their success to help each of us grow and thrive from elevating your artistry to booking more gigs. Mic Drop is designed to give you the tools and insights you need to reach the next level. Together we'll accelerate the path to growth, success, and most importantly, impact
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The best keynotes, start movements and incite change. And when you couple an electrifying speech with a project that fuels audience engagement, the result is lightning in a bottle. What I'm talking about here is a book that's where our friends at Amplify Publishing Group come in with 20 plus years of experience and hoed by some of the industry's most renowned veterans, including bestselling author and global superstar, Mel Robbins, the team at Amplify knows not only how to produce a fantastic book, but how to leverage that book and make it work for you, your brand and your business. And Amplify not only knows books, they know the world of keynote speaking and thought leadership. Having published CEOs and executives, they take positioning into consideration at every step of the way. Whether you have a one line concept or a comprehensive outline, amplify is ready to work with you. Visit amplifypublishing.com/micdrop to schedule an exploratory call and receive an exclusive editorial one pager tailored to your concept. That's amplify publishing.com/micdrop.
Josh Linkner:
Welcome to another episode of Mic Drop. Today I'm joined by my good friend, smiley pki, a top speaker on Belonging and Human Connection. In this episode, smiley Shares why belonging is crucial in today's hybrid work environment and how it impacts the bottom line for businesses. He opens up about his path from focusing on next gen talent to becoming an advocate for human connection, emphasizing the importance of building deep relationships in all aspects of life. Smile strategically positions his message to resonate with business leaders, ensuring his topic is seen as essential rather than a soft skill. I think this is so important for all of us as the market dynamic shift and clients are asking for more hard business results than just things that feel good. He also reveals the behind the scenes work that has elevated his speaking practice from refining his content to investing in his brand. In this episode, we explore smiley's innovative approach to his workplace Belonging toolkit, a practical resource designed to extend the impact of his keynotes. Smiley's, authenticity, and dedication in fostering connections shines right through this episode, and I'm pretty sure that we're all gonna be smiling a whole lot as we continue to listen together.
My good friend, smiley, welcome to Mic Drop.
Smiley Poswolsky:
Hey Josh. Thanks so much for having me. It's wonderful to be here.
Josh Linkner:
We are gonna have so much fun. And I, I was just saying to Alec, who's running our studio today, um, I always smile when I'm with you and I know you have that effect on everybody, that the name is fitting. Um, so I wanna dive right in. You're, you're, you're, you're a top speaker on belonging and human connection. Um, so why do you think that's so important in the world? Why is it so important to you personally? Why does that topic matter to clients today?
Smiley Poswolsky:
Yeah, I think traditionally things like belonging, human connection would be thought of as kind of soft skills, not essential, but in the world that we're living in today, with the big shift to hybrid AI and its impact on work and kind of this 24 7 nonstop workplace, right? Work doesn't end at 5:00 PM It doesn't end in one time zone. It's happening all the time. People need to feel that sense of connection all the time. You know, the saying, uh, culture eats strategy for breakfast. I think in the current landscape, culture eats strategy for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert. 'cause you better be having dessert because the world is working all the time. And we're in the midst of this loneliness epidemic. It was raging prior to the pandemic, and it's only gotten worse. So 50% of Americans are lonely, and it's not like they stop being lonely from when they go to work.
Uh, and this has an incredible impact on the bottom line, right? Lonely employees, more sick days, more missed days at work, 45% lower productivity, lower quality of work, higher risk of turnover, they cost their employers $154 billion per year. So I think a lot of companies are seeing that with the shift to hybrid, which adds a lot of flexibility, right? People aren't in the office as much, they don't know each other. They feel disconnected. They may have never seen their manager, their boss, their team. Maybe they're getting together once a year or twice a year. They really feel that lack of belonging. And when they do employee engagement surveys, that shows up a lot. And they see the benefits of when they have high levels of belonging connection. And I think that's why speakers like myself get brought in. How do we foster that sense of belonging in a world where we're using technology all of the time, and it's only getting, uh, only increasing in terms of the level at which we're using these tools.
Josh Linkner:
Brilliant. And, and Smiley, we didn't rehearse that, but, but anyone listening, I wanna call something out. Smiley did an incredible job just now of demonstrating why his topic feels like the most important topic in the world and why it matters to organizations. He didn't say, which I know you believe, like, oh, people wake up morning feeling better about themselves. You know, they, they, they can have a, you know, a happier outlook on life. Those are true. Awesome. But you characterize it in a beautiful and elegant way on why it's important and why it matters to business. And funny enough, man, I was reviewing your site and you share a lot of hard data, which is a really cool contrast around a topic where you, you said like, could be considered soft, you know, belonging drives 50 per six, SE increase, uh, or 56% increase in job performance, 75% reduction in sick days, 34% improvement in goal attainment, 167% boost in employee satisfaction. So to me, that's a really smart approach. You're helping buyers see the link between your topic and their bottom line results. Can you share like how you develop that approach and what advice you have for other speakers who might have a topic that similarly could be perceived as soft, soft, but you're bringing it to, to the forefront and helping business leaders make the right decision and hire you?
Smiley Poswolsky:
Yeah, it's a great point. I think, um, for anyone that has a topic that isn't obviously at every single conference in the world, right?
High levels of belonging are annual savings of $52 million for a large firm. Like immediately a boss kind of hears that, right? Or A-C-H-R-O hears that, or, or a CEO hears that and it's like, okay, let's talk more, right? It suddenly I can bring someone to the table who might've say, I might've said, you know what? We'll get to belonging if we have extra time. Or maybe if we have some extra dollars, I wanna make that kind of front and center. So I'm making the business case, uh, straight up that, that's, that's, that's part of our role as speakers that are talking about topics that haven't traditionally been given their, in my, my opinion, their fair share. We need to actually kind of show why we need to show why from a business case, from a people case, we can't just say, oh, this is important to me. I care about this. I like this. I'm an expert in this. I have stories about this. We need to kind of show how it's going to implement to, to impact their company from a, from a financial standpoint.
Josh Linkner:
It's such a powerful point. I I just wanna reinforce that because there are many speakers that speak on a topic that let, let's call it in the, in the sort of self-help genre. Um, and, and there's nothing wrong with 'em. There's not, I'm not being pejorative or judgy. I think it's fricking awesome. I've read hundreds of self-help books. Awesome. The problem is that the buyer who buys a self-help book is not buying that book for the same reason that a meeting planner or senior executive hires a speaker for a corporate event. Two different things. And so, if you have a self-help ish topic, I'm not saying change your topic or body of work, of course not. It's more about positioning your topic in a way that shows the business value in addition to the individual value, because buyers are buying based on the impact you're gonna make on, on their organization.
And if they can help their people als that, that's great, but that's not the driving force of a business decision. So I think, I think that's really smart. Um, so your practice has absolutely blown up in the last couple years, which I've been witness to and admired, and, and, and it fills me with joy. What, what do you attribute some of that to, in addition to what we talked about, you know, positioning your topic and the context of business results. What do you attribute the stunning success that you've enjoyed recently? And what are some of the moves that you've made that have really paid off?
Smiley Poswolsky:
Yeah, it's a combination of factors. I mean, you always like to say, and this is a big kind of mantra in impact 11, is, uh, stay in your lane. Pick a lane, dude. Right? Pick a lane, right? Which is really important. And I think that that's critical advice for speakers starting out, kind of saying, what's your lane? You're not, you don't speak about five topics. You speak about. One thing I started speaking a long time ago, 20 15, 20 16, was when, when I got going, and I came into the game speaking a lot about future of work in the context of next gen talent, right? I was a millennial. I had left kind of a career in government, set out on my own, wrote a self-published book called The Quarter Life Breakthrough, which sold 10,000 copies, all about millennials finding meaningful work, this big search for meaning at purpose at work, which was not something that this, that was necessarily talked about 10, 15 years ago.
So that was my lane, right? Multi-generational workforce, millennials in the workplace, future of work. But I like to say, I kind of add on to the Josh Linkner, uh, pick a lane, stay in your lane, but keep the windows open. And what I mean by that is that you have to kind of let the air in as you're driving down the highway, seeing what, what's happening to you and what's happening in the world. And for me, I was going through this big process in actually before the pandemic of feeling disconnected, of feeling lonely, of not being sure who my real friends were, uh, of. And, and then you start to do the research and you're like, oh my gosh, 50% of Americans are lonely, right? One in five people don't have someone in their life for a close social connection, which just breaks my heart.
15% of men have no close friends at all, which is just heartbreaking. 80% of Gen Z and 70% of millennials are lonely. So yes, there's this next gen talent element, but there's this bigger conversation around human connection and belonging. And so by keeping the windows open, I found a topic that was already connected to what I was talking about, right? A lot of my work around next gen talent and future work was about the importance of connection and community at work, the importance of employee experience, right? It's not just the work that you do, it's who you're surrounded with. It's what, what the culture is at, at, at, at your workplace. That's what, what people, young people, and frankly, everyone is looking for, right? A culture of support. Um, but I was able to keep the windows open and find that topic. And then, so not just finding a topic that really is important to you, finding a topic that is really important to the world, but also doing the work.
I have spent the last several years upleveling almost every single aspect of my business. And impact 11 has been a huge part of that. But I mean, the website, I mean, if you were to go to my site just two years ago, I mean, it was fine. It checked all of the boxes, right? It had my PCT, it showed what, what, what I was doing, my credibility, my transformation, all the logos, had a video, had, you know, examples of my work. But it wasn't beautiful. It didn't show why I should be picked over five other speakers. My real, yeah, it was a real, it was a real, it was a video. It had clips of my work, but it wasn't outstanding. Uh, and so by investing in the website, in my reel in the brand, frankly, I didn't have a speaker brand before, you know, a couple years ago I was smiley.
So that kind of helps. I have this nickname that I've had for, for 25 years, that's kind of a brand, but I didn't have like, colors and an aesthetic and a style. And by, by putting a lot of time, energy, and investment into those, those elements, I've been able to uplevel my craft. I think I was always good on the platform. I, I always had some natural talent on stage, but I really took it to another level. And frankly, I've also been working on my content
For example, you know, Pete Chi and our good friend, he, he saw I, I opened for Pete, which is something that, you know, is one of the most intimidating things in the world to do, opening for Peach Chi. And, and he sat there in the back and took notes. And I was, you know, seeing him take notes as I was giving a keynote. And one of the things that he told me was like, smiley, you're really good. You gotta do your, what's up with your slides, man? What are you doing with your slides? You know, get someone to design your slides, figure, figure out a style. And by doing that, you know, that that was a huge factor as well. So taking every single element of the business and upleveling it. So what does it look to kind of turn the knob on every single thing that we do? That's what I've been focused on the last couple years.
Josh Linkner:
So, good, man. Like, a few things that I heard there. One is you didn't radically shift from lane to some, you know, like a different street or, you know, going to a river, you, you adapted your body of work to changing conditions, and you're changing perspective as, as a person and a leader. And so I think that's a, that's a beautiful example. You said open-minded, but you didn't make some radical, you know, try trying to catch the flavor of the week. You know, the, the other thing about, you know, these, these little improvements, that's exactly right. I mean, when you look at, at, you know, great tennis players or, or, or great fashion designers, they're, they, once they've gotten some footing, they're always tweaking. They're always making these little adjustments. They're not relying only on their previous work. And, and you, you've been doing that.
And sometimes they, I think I'm, I'm from Detroit, and so there's like a new car. The Corvette next year will have a bunch of little teeny improvements, but at some point then they'll have a, a model overhaul. It's still a Corvette, but now it's like a, a, the all new Corvette. And you kind of did that. You had this sort of big transformation, you know, going, going to belonging, but you're still making these little, little adjustments all the time. And the last thing I'll just say that I heard is that, you know, you're doing the work and, and that's what people don't see. And you see a stunning performer, whether it's on Broadway or in athletics or, or, or music, and like, oh, it looks so natural. Like they just jumped on stage and didn't even have to think about it. And when something looks natural, you can be sure that behind the scenes, there was a lot of work done.
We have this phrase all the time. I say leg legends, do the work, and you're doing the work and, and it's, it's, it's obviously, uh, paying off. Uh, in addition to that, I had a question for you. I've seen some speakers give talks on topics that are like diametrically opposed to how they actually show up in the world. I've seen talks and ambition by someone who's lazy. I've seen talks on human connection by someone who's an arrogant jerk. I've seen talks on being a good listener by someone who's a terrible listener,
Smiley Poswolsky:
You know, I think, I think people kind of use the word authenticity all the time, but the one thing I realized a few years ago was that one of my greatest gifts, uh, is that I show up in a room and people wanna be around me. That is something I've had since I was a kid. That is something that I do not try to do. That is not something I've gone to school for or read books on. It's just me. That is the kind of
I walk into a room and I just naturally have this ability to connect with people. And I wish that I could tell you there was a science behind it, but that was, that is kind of me. And so for me, you know, one of my goals is that I want to bring that to the business, right? I wrote a book about friendship. Um, I like to think of myself as someone that is a good friend. What does it look like to, to be like that? Also at an event, also with my bureau partners, also with other speakers, also at Impact 11 also when I go to the coffee shop, right? So that to me is just, is how I go through the world. And, um, you know, it is authenticity, but it's just a, a natural just ability to kind of say, one of my things that I like to do in life is be in a room and chat with people,
And it's a beautiful thing that it lines up also with my topic, but it is kind of just who I am. Um, and I, and I've realized as I've gotten older that that is actually something to lean into, not shy away from that, those things that actually make us who we are. That who, who we were when we were five years old, right? Like, I was the kid at school who would find the person in the side of the room that wasn't hanging out with anyone and be, and was like, Hey, like, we're playing over here. You want to come hang out? Like, that was me. I, I, I don't know why, but that was me,
The person that can kind of see who's feeling left out or who's not, who's feeling a little bit of disagreement or who discontent or who's not being seen, not being heard, whose feedback isn't being included. Like that's a very important, important person to have in a boardroom,
Uh, so that's just kind of who I am. And, um, you know, I've had the nickname Smiley, long before I was a speaker. I had the nickname Smiley, when it was just, I, I, I got it. I, I can tell the story. I mean, it's, it's, it's from, you know, from, from my, uh, my cross country team, right? So I went to a very big public high school in Boston, Massachusetts, 2000 kids. I wanted to play a sport. Um, obviously, I mean, uh, you know, me, Josh, I'm not that big of a guy. For those listening
You just go run three miles or five miles or 10 miles. So couple weeks into practice, we're doing a hill workout, and I'm kind of just like having a good time being like, this is great. New England fall weather. My coach is this hard-nosed Boston guy who just starts screaming at me like, what the hell are you doing? Smiling kid, stop smiling, stop puking, kid, stop puking, stop puking, stop smiling. And after that, the team nicknamed me, smiley. I was like the slowest kid on the team. I never placed at any of our events, but my role was like our cheerleader. I get us pumped up before every single race. I ended up running cross country, indoor track, all outdoor track, all 12 seasons, all four years of high school. I became captain my senior year. I was still the slowest kid on the team, but I had a role to play.
Like I mattered. I belonged, right? I was our cheerleader. And I think at its very essence, at its very core, like that was my first lesson of what belonging is. It's this sense that every single person has a role to play, even if their role is just being smiley. Like that actually is what a captain of a, of a sports team or, or a good leader is sometimes is just like they're the person that gets us pumped up
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Josh Linkner:
If you're not as naturally talented, like you, you, you do this naturally, just sort of, and, and I have some skills that I'm natural at. I I may be not as natural at that as you are. What can someone like me do? Who, who you know, to do it for the right reasons. They're not trying to be manipulative or anything. They want people to, to feel like they're part of something. They want others to feel that sense of belonging. The, the beautiful energy that you inject in people, people gravitate to you for a reason. What, what could somebody who's less naturally adept do? How should we be thinking about it as we approach a social situation or even a stage situation where we want everybody in the audience to feel like they belong?
Smiley Poswolsky:
Yeah, I, I kind of start by, I always say with all of these things to start small and pick one thing, but I think the biggest thing, especially in the world that we're living in, which is so overwhelming, so distracted, so multitasking, is to pay attention. What does it look like to pay attention when you're in a social space? And by paying attention, I mean, paying attention to people, paying attention to what's happening, to walk into a room, to walk into a conference room, uh, to walk into an event and just start paying attention to people. And I think what happens there is that instead of being, having a head in the phone or sending an email, right, is about you're, you're maybe about to meet someone who might be able to get you that next gig, right? Or become a close friend or start a business with, you're paying attention and you're, and you're noticing something, and then what you notice then maybe turns into a conversation, or because you're paying attention, you see what they're, what they're doing, and then maybe you're able to connect.
So I think just starting with something as simple as paying attention goes a long way to fostering that sense of belonging. And other people notice it. You'd be surprised, you think people aren't paying attention, but they are. And then they're like, Hey, I noticed that you just kind of were in this space and just kind of looking around, hanging out, like we should talk. Um, and then I think moving on from that, um, uh, appreciation, appreciation and celebration, being someone that always recognizes and, and sends appreciations to people, uh, goes a long way in this world. Um, and, and there's a lot of kind of, uh, of the data around belonging shows that it's really important for people to feel supported and and proud in their work and celebrated in their work when it comes to workplace belonging. So if somebody does something simply sending a text message, Hey, I really appreciated the way you showed up on that Zoom call, or, I really appreciated that you gave me your time, you know, when I to pick your brain, um, or, or, or, thank you for making that event so meaningful.
That was, you know, that was the coolest stage introduction I've ever heard, right? I, you know, even sometimes I'll be on stage and, you know, we don't think as speakers to think, um, to thank the host, to think that the mc or, or, or sometimes it's not even an mc, it's just, um, someone at the company that's being asked to do our stage introduction, right? I'll, I'll often be asked by the, uh, the, the CHRO or the chief people officer will do my stage intro, uh, to what does it look like to just send them a thank you. Hey, thanks for that intro. That was great. They're like, no one's ever thanked me. No speaker has ever thanked me for doing their introduction. I'm like, well, yeah, you got in front of your entire company,
Josh Linkner:
So good. I mean, just, just noticing people and celebrating them, as you mentioned and showing a little gratitude is, is not only the right thing to do and helps and you feel good doing it, but it's also, in your case, like a competitive advantage. I think it's really cool. Um, kind, kind of jumping back to the business side of things for a minute. So you've written three terrific books, um, but I notice also that you now have the Workplace Belonging Toolkit. So give us a sense, like, what is that, how is it different than a normal book and how are you using it to drive your practice?
Smiley Poswolsky:
One of the things that I was really kind of keen on this year is creating something that audiences could leave my talk and hold in their hands. That was much more practical and action-based than a book. And when I talk to people about, hey, like, what would make you be able to continue the work of the keynote? They didn't say a book
We'd like to think that they do. And, and yes, we need to write those books, but that's not necessarily what they are dying to do, right? Game of Thrones is a pretty good show.
So I created this full color, uh, workplace belonging toolkit. It's 70 pages. It's absolutely beautiful, like stunning. Uh, Kendra Kegel, who, uh, we both have worked with is an incredible graphic designer. She, uh, designed it and it's filled with all of these different things that people can do to continue the work. So I've made it, actually, it's free to download for people on my website as a PDF, and when they download it, um, it's free, but they do have to gimme their email, their role, their company, and the size of their company. So then I have that as an, as information as a speaker. Normally people, some people buy a book on Amazon, we don't know who bought the book. We have no idea, right? It could be your cousin or it could be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. We have no idea.
But with this information, I now have this database where I know exactly who's buying my book, and then I know, oh, they bought my book, they just added me on LinkedIn. They bought the toolkit, they just added me on LinkedIn. I should probably reach out to them. Maybe we could work together, right? I know exactly who they are, what their role is, or, okay, they're oh, or they, they are, they're a consultant. They, they're, they're a five person company. I'm probably not gonna reach out to them to speak, right? They're probably not gonna have the budget for that, but I know exactly who's looking at the toolkit and at the end of an event, I offer to the client ahead of time, Hey, would you like to print copies of this so that 200 people can walk outta here with a toolkit in hand? And obviously not every client is gonna want that.
Um, that's not gonna be a fit for everyone. But for those that it is, it's, it's great and it's great to have it there as an asset. So it's, it's all around like people always was. People talk about top of the funnel, bottom of the funnel. It's actually kind of both
All about running bold experiments. I am all about creating deep content. So I want to be someone that's known. And, and by deep content, I'm kind of, um, building off of Cal Newport's philosophy around deep work, which is you really create work that matters. That takes time. I am not the type of person that's gonna win the day-to-Day content, uh, attention game. I just frankly don't care
Josh Linkner:
So cool. I mean, first of all, if someone downloads it, you're almost better off with that information than the the small amount of royalty you'd make if they bought the book on Amazon. So that's actually a good economic decision. 'cause then, you know, they're part of your, your orbit. They, they get to know you. They'll refer you to others, you know, you're building your tribe. The, the idea of, of, obviously it's a revenue source if, if, if a client chooses to print print copies. Um, but also I can see it as a differentiator. You know, if you're in that situation, you're up against two other speakers and you're the, you're the one who says, Hey, everybody gets this beautiful toolkit and I want the learning to continue, and they're gonna walk away, not just inspired with practical guidelines. Like that could be a difference maker.
I'm sure it has been for you. And it's those little adjustments, each little adjustment, maybe that tips three gigs your way one year, maybe something else you did converts two extra, and all of a sudden you have a hundred full fee offers and you raise your price. So, I mean, I think it's just a really thoughtful, deliberate, intentional strategy. Smart. Uh, I wanted to, to bring our conversation home and, and I I, man, I wish we could hang out longer. I, I always just love my time with you. Um, when I first met you years ago, you were, you're just getting getting rolling. You're kind of early, earlier on in your career, knowing what you know now, what advice would you offer to that younger version of yourself?
Smiley Poswolsky:
If I had to pick one thing, I mean, I would say I wish I had made more investments in the business earlier. I think I waited a little bit longer to kind of go all in, uh, the variety of factors, why that was the case. But I think I wish I had kind of put more into the website, more into the reel, more into the content earlier on. But I would also tell myself, it's all about the relationships. And if, if, if I could kind of, uh, you know, and distill my success down to one thing, it's that I've built very deep relationships with bureau partners, with other speakers, with meeting planners, with clients. And to know that that's enough. That those conversations, that the fact that you are responding to those emails that you're writing, thoughtful emails that you're showing up on, on, on time, all of those things add up to being somebody that people want to book.
Like the little things matter so much, and we talk about it, and you, and you think, oh, everyone must do that. Of course. How, how can you get booked to give a keynote if you don't respond on time or write a nice email? People do not write, write nice, nice emails. I've been shown what some speakers respond to agents and I'm like, oh my gosh, how could they, how could they speak like that? Or in that tone or kind of have those, that that type of, how could they have that, their practice like that, but the importance of relationships and that this is a relationships business. And I, I had the opportunity to go to IASB last, uh, last year as a sponsor. And what I realized was, wow, these bureau partners, these agents, they love this work as much as we do. They really do.
Like, they are as passionate about, uh, sharing ideas and creating impact in the world and thought leadership as the most talented, successful speaker in the world. And that they love this. And this is a relationships business. So I, I would, I would tell people every single call you have, every event you have, every gig, every meeting is a chance to build a relationship. And obviously you're not gonna become, I'm not saying you're not gonna be best friends
Josh Linkner:
Well, it's such a great place to end our conversation today. Uh, very grateful for our friendship and relationship, grateful for the impact you're making in the world and the industry, your leadership and, and sharing your wisdom with us today. I think we've walked away with a whole bunch of important, uh, little nuggets to try to experiment. And this, this notion around, um, belonging, I think is gonna resonate deeply. So Smiley, my friend, thank you for joining me on Mic Drop.
Smiley Poswolsky:
Thanks so much, Josh. I really appreciate it. Love the podcast.
Josh Linkner:
As I wrap this conversation with Smiley, I'm reminded of the profound impact that authentic connection and belonging can have on our lives and in our workplaces. His insights on positioning his message to align with business objectives really provides a valuable lesson for us all, especially if we're speaking on topics that might be perceived as soft, smiley's innovative approach with his Workplace Belonging Toolkit demonstrates the importance of offering a practical and actionable set of resources to compliment messages that are in and of themselves inspiring. I love when Smiley shared his insight on the importance of paying attention and showing appreciation. Those simple yet powerful acts can transform the dynamics of a relationship, a team, a company, and of course, a culture. Let's make sure that everybody feels valued and connected. Smiley, thanks to you, my friend. We can all smile a little bit more. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends, and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit mike drop podcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next mic drop moment.