Mic Drop

There Is No Normal (ft. Rene Rodriguez)

Episode Summary

Just about every aspect of Rene Rodriguez’s rise to speaker stardom has been unconventional. But is there anything conventional about making storytelling and impact your passion and career? Hear Rene’s one-of-a-kind perspectives on a wide range of essential topics this week on Mic Drop.

Episode Notes

There Is No Normal (ft. Rene Rodriguez)

One speaker’s unconventional journey to impact and success

OPENING QUOTE:

“You tell a joke, no one laughs. You walk in a room, no one notices. You sell a product, no one buys you. You set a vision, and no one buys in. And the feeling is one of feeling insignificant— and maybe even leads to depression and a questioning of one's self.”

-Rene Rodriguez

GUEST BIO:

For over two decades, René Rodriguez has been researching and applying behavioral neuroscience as a dynamic keynote speaker, leadership advisor, world-class sales expert, renowned speaker coach and now best-selling author. He has also trained more than 100,000 people in applying behavioral psychology and neurology methodologies to solve some of the toughest challenges in leadership, sales, and change.

After hosting his second annual AMPCON in Las Vegas, René just launched his book, Amplify Your Influence and hit the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Amazon and Publisher’s Weekly best-sellers lists. Amplify Your Influence is available now at retailers everywhere.

René has worked with senior leaders at DuPont, Coca-Cola, Cargill and 3M, as well as high-performing individuals in numerous fields focusing on centering your message in your own story to increase authenticity and genuine leadership across the world.

Links:

CORE TOPICS & DETAILS

[10:50] - Different Path, Incredible Results

Rene’s nontraditional approach to building credibility

Rene is a well-respected expert with no advanced degrees. He speaks over 100 times a year, but barely works with bureaus. He speaks over 100 times a year, but barely works with speaker bureaus. He's not afraid to change lanes and speak on a different topic. His first book is coming out 27 years after he started in professional speaking. The lesson here for us all? We don't need to follow a preordained route, and we shouldn't feel defeated if we're missing any of the conventional markers that lead to speaking success.

[8:21] - Before You Step Onstage

What every speaker should know but doesn’t

It’s easy to begin thinking of your ‘audience’ as some amorphous idea that moves with you from event to event. But each audience is different. Before you step onstage, ask yourself— who is this audience? Are they sad? Are they excited? Were they just acquired? What’s their state of mind? Asking questions like these will help you give much more impactful keynotes when you step onstage.

[28:15] - Amplifying Your Influence

Maximizing your impact as a speaker

Always remember— it’s about the audience, not the speaker. Neuroscience proves that when someone speaks with a tone of arrogance or boastfulness versus humility and grace, it kills their credibility in the minds of their audience. Instead, focus on the needs and feelings of the people you’re serving— because, after all, speaking is an act of service.

[30:55] - If You Could Go Back…

The one thing Rene wishes he knew at the start

“You could be great at something, but if no one knows what you do, it doesn't matter.” For all the important conversations about purpose, impact, and the positive influence speakers can have on the lives of others, the simple fact is that you also have to build your speaking brand like a business. Never forget that at every step along the path.

RESOURCES:

[2:40] Amplify Your Influence

Follow Rene Rodriguez:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Brought to you by eSpeakers, hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers; sponsored by 3 Ring Circus.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

ABOUT eSPEAKERS:

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eSpeakers is where the speaking industry does business on the web. Speakers, speaker managers, associations, and bureaus use our tools to organize, promote and grow successful businesses. Event organizers think of eSpeakers first when they want to hire speakers for their meetings or events.

The eSpeakers Marketplace technology lets us and our partner directories help meeting professionals all over the world connect directly with speakers for great engagements.

Thousands of successful speakers, trainers, and coaches use eSpeakers to build their businesses and manage their calendars. Thousands of event organizers use our directories every day to find and hire speakers. Our tools are built for speakers, by speakers, to do things that only purpose-built systems can.

Learn more at: eSpeakers.com

Episode Transcription

Rene Rodriguez:

You tell a joke, no one laughs. You walk in a room, no one notices. You sell a product no one buys you. You set a vision, and no one buys in. And the feeling is one of feeling insignificant and maybe even leads to depression and a questioning of one's self.

Josh Linkner:

Welcome to Mic Drop, the podcast for professional speakers. We covered the ins and outs of the business, helping you deliver more impact on bigger stages at higher fees. You'll gain an inside edge through intimate conversations with the world's most successful keynote speakers. Mic Drop is brought to you by eSpeakers. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Get ready for some inspiring mic drop moments together.

Josh Linkner:

Today's show is sponsored by 3 Ring Circus, the industry's top training and development program for professional speakers. They've helped hundreds of speakers launch or scale their speaking business, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals and rising to the top of the field. If you are looking to take your speaking business to the next level, they'll simply help you get there faster. To learn more and schedule a free 30 minute consultation, visit 3RingCircus.com/MicDrop. That's 3, the number 3, RingCircus.com/MicDrop.

Josh Linkner:

Mic Drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. If you want more audiences and organizations to be moved and changed by your message, you owe it to yourself to find out why thousands of top experts use eSpeakers to manage and grow their business. When you use eSpeakers, you'll feel confident about your business, package yourself up for success, and be able to focus on what matters most to you and your business. For more information and a free 30 day trial, visit eSpeakers.com/MicDrop. That's eSpeakers.com/MicDrop.

Josh Linkner:

Today, I sit down with Rene Rodriguez who focuses on the study of neuroscience to elevate influence and leadership. He's been in the speaking game for 27 years and remains as busy as a speaker as you'll find. During the pandemic, he cranked out 320 virtual presentations., And this year will deliver over 100 keynotes. He's worked with senior leaders at DuPont, Coca-Cola, and 3M, helping them Amplify Influence, the title of his forthcoming book.

Josh Linkner:

Rene and I had a blast covering a range of topics from speaking, to branding, to helping others. In our conversation, Rene shares how we took a nontraditional approach to building credibility, becoming an expert in behavioral psychology and neuroscience without holding an advanced degree in either of these subjects. He shares the key thing that every speaker needs to understand before giving a keynote, but most of us failed to do. Rene shares how to build and maximize our influence as a professional speaker, and how he broke the model of professional speaking in so many ways; from picking a single lane, to working with bureaus, to writing his book. On today's episode, Rene even tosses in the one thing he knows now that he wishes he knew back when he was getting his start.

Josh Linkner:

Rene Rodriguez, welcome to Mic Drop.

Rene Rodriguez:

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. So, I've been really looking forward to our conversation. You've made a big impact in the speaking world. You've been at it for quite some time, but could you maybe just give us the high level of where you came from, when you started in the industry, and where you are now, just so we can frame who you are in your experience to this point?

Rene Rodriguez:

For sure, for sure. My background is in behavioral neuroscience. And so, I started 27 years ago selling cookware door to door, doing presentations then. Moving from the one-on-one presentation to the one-on-ten, and really realizing back then the power of being in front of a room. And taking that science to the change management world, working in a change management firm that used brain research neuroscience to deal with hostile work environments, and working with leadership teams from companies like DuPont, Coca-Cola, International Paper, some of the largest brands in the world, Cargill, 3M, to being on stages all over the world. And the journey that's taken from the empty stages to the breakout rooms, to the free events, to begging to be on a stage, to the ones where you walk out and you can't believe that many people showed up. So, it's been a very fun journey, as I know you've been on as well.

Josh Linkner:

It's amazing. 27 years, and you're continuing to refine your skills and your insights and your knowledge. And so today, I know you do other things too, but just give us a sense of your speaking practice today. How many dates approximately you're doing, is it all keynotes, is it breakouts? What does your business look like today?

Rene Rodriguez:

We do well over 100 events a year right now, and that's the live events, and it's a ridiculous travel schedule right now. That doesn't include virtual events, which we do... I mean, during the pandemic, we did 320 of them. We've got a studio here that has six cameras, 27 lights. I'm on it right now. That is also my computer. It's also my thing. So, we're prepped to deal with all of those different arenas.

Rene Rodriguez:

I'd say about a third of those are self-generated events, what we call Amplify, where we take 12 people at a time. These are people that are looking to grow their influences. These are leaders and sales professionals that are looking to be better. Influencers or leaders, communicators. Not really speakers if you will, but they have to speak in front of a room. We did 33 of just those events last year, the rest were keynotes.

Rene Rodriguez:

Not as many breakout sessions anymore. In fact, I would say almost none. Most of them are main stage keynotes, and we do one main event a year called AMPCON where we have about 600 people. It was our second year, 600 people came just to see the work of Amplify and the book that just came out in Las Vegas.

Josh Linkner:

It's so good. And so, speaking of the book that just came out, Lead with Influence, is that correct?

Rene Rodriguez:

Amplify Your Influence, yep.

Josh Linkner:

Amplify Influence, I apologize. But-

Rene Rodriguez:

The lead with influences from the website though, so you're on track.

Josh Linkner:

Okay. So, I know that's a big part of you. Book's coming out just in a week or two by the time folks are listening to it. Many people will probably already be seeing this book on many bestseller lists, I have no doubt. But tell us about the book and tell us what it means to lead with influence.

Rene Rodriguez:

So, Amplify Your Influence and leading with influence really is a, the work of my entire career is, how do we... And so when I talk about my background in behavioral neuroscience, it's about the applied science. And I look at how these amazing researchers and what they've done, and say, how does this apply to things like leadership? How does it apply to communication, to selling, to closing, to communicating an idea of value proposition, to resolving a conflict? Selling a product? Sequencing, timing, expressions, body language. How do I communicate? Tone of voice.

Rene Rodriguez:

All of those elements come into a science and understanding the ability to influence. And the best way to understand influence, it's the one thing that all of us here listening have in common. I think it's one of the things that most humans have in common, and it's probably best understood through its opposite, right? Let's go look at the opposite of influence. You tell a joke, no one laughs. You walk in a room, no one notices. You sell a product, no one buys. You set a vision and no one buys in, and the feeling is one of feeling insignificant and maybe even leads the depression and a questioning of one's self.

Rene Rodriguez:

But then you look at influence. You walk in a room and everyone notices. You tell a joke, people laugh. You sell the product and people buy. You lay a vision out, and everyone follows. The feeling is a feeling of significance. And the difference is, is the ability to impact that world around you.

Rene Rodriguez:

So, the book lays out that there is a science to it that everyone can learn, and it comes down to basic sequences in the brain and understanding language choices, how we tell our personal story in things that we do in a way that really goes opposite of what we were taught. And Josh, quite frankly, it's a lot of things that I've watched you do in your career and the people that you have trained and are working with. So, it's taking the things that the pros are doing and trying to codify the process.

Josh Linkner:

It's amazing. If you could double click down, what's a tip... I think you said there's a whole framework and everyone listening should absolutely buy the book, but is there a little practical tip? What can we do to get a little boost in influence, or as someone listening to walk away have a quick win?

Rene Rodriguez:

One I would tell people is understanding... and first of all, it's understanding what's your influence objective, right? Because because the best thing that I ask people, at the end of our course, we end with a 10 step checklist that really consolidates the course. The first question we ask is, who's our audience? So many people look at what they're trying to say without asking the audience. And I say, "Imagine showing up to the tee in golf, and you go and you grab your golf club choice first without looking at where the pin is and how far you got to hit." And so people will say, "Well, what's the best influence tool or what's the best thing?" And it's like saying, "Well, what's the best golf club to use?" And people say, "Well, the driver." I said, "Well, what if you're on the putting green?"

Rene Rodriguez:

I said, "I know a lot of leaders that use a driver on the putting green, and they take these big swings at things that take finesse, and they end up putting divots in a putting green of the organization, and all of a sudden you have people that have to clean up something, the culture or the organization, because the leader was just unaware."

Rene Rodriguez:

And so, taking a look at your audience, where you're at, what your objective is, and where the state of the audience is. Are they upset? Are they sad? Are they an excited audience? Were they just acquired? I mean, how many times have you gone up to speak and you asked the sponsor, "Hey, how's the group done?" "Everything was fine until that last moment." Two weeks ago I was just there and they just got acquired, and they just announced five minutes before I went on stage. That makes a difference in terms of how I start things.

Rene Rodriguez:

And so, understanding your audience where they're at is a big piece because that helps you understand how you start. And so, we tell people in this process of influence that sequence is everything, because the brain works in a sequence, and it's something that we all know. It's something as simple of giving feedback. We don't start with a negative, we start with a positive first, and then we move into the opportunities for growth because the brain is more prepped to hear it. We probably have more expanding to do on that, but that would be the biggest piece in the beginning to understand.

Josh Linkner:

Well, it's such a great point, and you're really emphasizing situational awareness and you're right. Speakers often can miss the mark there. They give a talk the same as if it's in front of 10,000 people or 10 people, give a talk the same if you're on stage versus virtual, and those are very different media even though you're communicating a similar message. So, the notion of situational awareness to drive influence, couldn't agree more.

Josh Linkner:

I did have a question for you on that. So you talk a lot about, you study behavioral psychology and neuroscience. My understanding is that you are not a PhD. You don't have 40 degrees in each of these things, which by the way, is the coolest thing ever. I think many times people who want to be speakers think, "I have to have all these advanced degrees. I have to have all these qualifications." I think you are a world expert in both of those things, but in a non-traditional way. So, can you maybe give us a sense of how you built your level of expertise in those domains? How did you become the expert that you are without the traditional monikers of educational excellence?

Rene Rodriguez:

A passion and unsatiable curiosity. So, I don't have them, but we partner with them. We've worked alongside with John Ratey of Harvard who was a head neurologist there for eight years and developing one of our courses. Right now, one of the people that's licensing our Amplify course is the co-founder of the NeuroLeadership Institute, Dr. Al Ringleb in CIMBA in Italy. So, we've been working alongside them for a long time. What you'll find is that doctors and the neuroscientists and the people, the researchers are starving for application knowledge. And so, we have been lucky enough to work with over 100,000 people during this time. And I'm talking about 100,000 small groups. I don't include the massive 5,000 person audiences. 100,000 people in applying the knowledge.

Rene Rodriguez:

When you have the ability to take a theory and a concept and apply it in a hostile environment, apply it in the real deal, in the trenches; it gives you an experience that a researcher will never have. And when you can go back to the research and say, "Okay, here's what I heard you say, here's how we've used it, and here's the results that we've got over the last 50 workshops, or the last this, and here's how it looked," the fascination and the collaboration that happens then is where I think the value is. And to me it's, you have to manage both. It is applied and science, and how do you apply and manage both of those pieces. And to your point, I think it's okay to not have all the monikers and all those types of things, but then work with and understand the lane of application.

Josh Linkner:

I think that's such a profound point. I just want to emphasize it for those listening, because a lot of folks that are newer in their speaking career and they see people with these very fancy biographies and they say, "Well, I don't have a degree from Harvard," or, "I didn't sell a business for $1 billion or whatever," and they can get discouraged.

Josh Linkner:

But here, and I say this as a compliment, you don't have those advanced degrees. Your first book is coming out after you've given thousands of keynotes and made millions of dollars and wildly successful. The point I wanted listeners to walk away with is, there's lots of ways to build expertise, there's lots of ways to build influence and make a tremendous successful opportunity as a professional speaker, and I think you're the embodiment of that. You don't need all those fancy external markers. What you need is what you did, which is curiosity and grit and hustle and determination, and you brought it to life, and it's just really cool.

Rene Rodriguez:

Yeah, it's funny. The other piece to it, and the word ethos is where we talk about. So, Aristotle was the first person to talk about argumentative thought two years ago, and his rhetorical triangle in terms of how you be persuasive is you need three things; you need ethos, pathos and logos. And ethos is your credibility and your character. We work with a lot of people on understanding that, to your point, was that they don't feel like they have ethos because they don't have doctor, or they don't have ethos because they didn't exit a business. And if you're brand new, their big question is, "Well, I'm brand new. I don't know anything." And I said, "Well, think about ethos as your lane. And you may not be new it's but people can read when you're out of your lane."

Rene Rodriguez:

It's like me doing a workshop on the menstrual cycle and the challenges that women go through. People would look at me and say, "Wait, what? Rene, you've never had a menstrual cycle." I said, "Well, yeah, that would be out of my character to do that," or how to grow rich and thick hair. If you can't see this, I'm bald. So, that's not my ethos, but that doesn't mean I don't have experience in other areas. And so if I'm brand new, maybe my ethos is to bring a rich and new refreshing approach to the market. New, innovative ideas that aren't stuck in an old, right? And so that I can bring the fresh approaches of a new generation, and that might be the credibility that I bring; the fact that I am new, the fact that I am young.

Rene Rodriguez:

And so, you have to be creative in looking at where your experience lies. If you were an athlete, "Well, I bring the discipline of an athlete, of a collegiate athlete," or whatever it was. You can still find credibility in other aspects of your life, the transition, and still apply in the expertise that may you be speaking about.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. It's so good, and you're exactly right. You can build those expertise. Furthermore, you don't have to be the, I like to say, you don't have to be the protagonist in your own story. So when you think about, many people I talk to, they say, "Oh, are people really going to care about my story? Do people really care that much about what I did?" And the answer is they might not, honestly. But think of some of the most successful speakers; Malcolm Gladwell, Dan Pink, Adam Grant, Brené Brown. They don't talk about their own story, they talk about their research and their insights and the world and other people and their subject matter.

Josh Linkner:

So again, to me, it's removing the barriers for those that want to be professional speakers. You don't have to have this killer... You don't have to climb Everest. You don't have to have 14 PhDs from Harvard. You can do what you and I did, which is be self-directed in your learning and building expertise.

Rene Rodriguez:

I was going to say, I love that. We're translators of that information. I love that. That's great. Yeah. Fantastic.

Josh Linkner:

Exactly.

Rene Rodriguez:

And that's that's what I had to do, translate the researchers into something applicable. And even Darren Hardy was that with Success Magazine. I mean, that's how he built his whole career.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah. 100% right. So, I did have a question though. You mentioned the ethos and you say to pick your lane. And the prevailing wisdom, as you and I know in the speaking industry, is pick your lane. So, I speak on innovation, and Ryan Estis, our good buddy, speaks on sales and et cetera.

Josh Linkner:

But in yours I was looking at your website, because I was trying... I know all about you and I've been a fan of yours for years, but just looking at the website, I could surmise that you speak on influence, teamwork and collaboration, sales, leadership, trust, culture, finding your why, and communication. It's a softball question, but what's the through line there? How do you think the world needs to see you to understand what the lane is for Rene Rodriguez?

Rene Rodriguez:

So, this is a great conversation to talk about Ryan, because he was instrumental in helping me solve that problem. And I want to be transparent about this, because I think this is what listeners are battling with too, is the same battle I had for years. I had been doing this work for so long, but the market was really confused at some points as to who I was.

Rene Rodriguez:

My website used to say leadership, change, and sales. And there was a part of the marketplace that saw me as a sales trainer, because I do really good sales training. There was another part of the marketplace of manufacturing side of the marketplace and environmental health and safety that saw me as a change management leadership person. Then there was another group that saw me as a keynote speaker on the power of courage and the two Ted Talks that I did.

Rene Rodriguez:

And so, it was really split. And so, when I was talking with Ryan, we're looking at this piece, because I'd never used bureaus before. I'd never used... Everything was self sourced, and Ryan was gracious enough to say, "Here's what we mean by brand," and he handed me his brand book. I was looking, I feel like, I've seen companies do this. I never saw an individual do that. It was just one, the generosity, and this is speaks to a lot of what I think you guys do to do that, and I took that and ran with it. And the thing that all through our process of creating what I would call my ethos, which would be my lane, was the neuroscience approach to influence and leadership.

Rene Rodriguez:

And so, everything that we're doing is it is the common denominator of all those things that you talked about, communication and sales. Yes, there are applications in sales. Do I focus on sales training? No, but am I brought it on sales stages? All the time. Am I focused on some of those pieces? It's really just about influence right now, and that leadership trait of, how do you drive that? And that does open up a pretty wide audience.

Rene Rodriguez:

And we do have a course that we call Engage, which is one we have put... Geez, 100,000 people to through, which is around trust and teamwork. It is a challenge. But if you have been doing it long enough, the more narrow you get that, the clearer it becomes, but the brand right now is focused on influence, but it doesn't mean you can't do other things. And that was the part that was hardest for me to get around, was I felt like when you focused in on your brand and chose your lane that you shut off everything else. You do in some ways, but that doesn't mean you can't also do some of the other pieces.

Josh Linkner:

I just love that. And again, just echoing back. I mean, so you are an expert at the neuroscience of influence. Period, full stop. But you help people apply that, your body of work and your expertise, to a lot of different situations. You can apply that to sales, you can apply that to leadership, you can apply that to culture, you can apply that to trust. And so, what I'm hearing you say is that you do have a singular body of work, but you use the word the applied sense of it. You can apply it to a number of different settings. Just because someone is a project manager doesn't mean they can't learn this. They don't have to be a particular role or a particular industry. You can apply these universal principles to a lot of different scenarios. Am I getting that right?

Rene Rodriguez:

Yeah. Well, it's, who doesn't need to influence, right? And to me, influence is... People think our workshops are on presentation skills. Yes, you are in front of the room for 90% of the time during our workshops, and I'm standing next to you as you're communicating your message and we're fixing body language and how you communicate your story and exploring what we call your personal origin story and putting those pieces together. But it is that influence piece expressed through presentation. Influence expressed through writing, influence expressed through a sales pitch or a value proposition. Influence expressed through a conflict result being resolved. And so, all of it is about influencing an idea or a thought or behavior.

Josh Linkner:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions in annual income while driving massive impact on audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow route with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you're serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at 3 Ring Circus, they can help. From optimizing your marketing and business efforts, to crafting your ideal positioning, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills; 3 Ring Circus is the only speaker training and development program run by current high level speakers at the top of their field.

Josh Linkner:

That's why the major bureaus like Washington Speakers Bureau, Premier Speakers, SpeakInc, Executive Speakers, Harry Walker Agency, Keppler, Gotham Artists, and GDA all indoors and participate in 3 Ring Circus. From interactive boot camps to one-on-one coaching, 3 Ring Circus will help you reach your full potential in the speaking biz, and they'll get there faster. For a free 30 minute consultation, visit 3RingCircus.com/MicDrop. That's 3RingCircus.com/MicDrop.

Josh Linkner:

So, imagine that I'm a brand new speaker. I've gotten a couple gigs, I've written a book, I'm passionate about it, I want to do it right, I am going to invest in my future. What are some suggestions that you might give to someone like me as that brand new speaker along the lines of your body of work, neuroscience behavior influence, that would allow me to be more successful and perhaps get to where I'm trying to get to faster?

Rene Rodriguez:

I think probably the first piece is speak as often as you can, anytime you can, even if it's free. Take every opportunity to get in front of a room to practice. Record every single thing that you do. Don't get hung up on getting paid right away. Get out there. Because if you do it enough and if you get good at it, you will run out of time. And the moment you run out time, this the moment you start charging for it.

Rene Rodriguez:

What happens, I see so many of those, a lot of the new speakers are so hung up on their fee and they're hung up on the other pieces that they forget about the being a practitioner and delivering a value. If you are in front of a room, and I have those conversations with CEOs because we have conversations prior to going out speaking. And I remember confronting, it was the president of a company and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, I'll introduce you." I said, "Great. Do you know what you're going to say?" He's like, "No, no. You're good. You're going to be great."

Rene Rodriguez:

I said, "Hold on a second." I go, "You're giving me your entire company for four hours. The attention of your company for four hours. I get to say what I want, and I'm assuming you want me aligned with your vision and strategy. We should probably align." And he looks at me and he stops at the bar, he goes, "That's a good point." And I said, "So, where do you want me to take them?" I go, "I know what I'm going to say, and I've got plenty of content, but where do you want me to take them?"

Rene Rodriguez:

And that clarity in that, when you get to that place, the influence that you have over a group comes down to your ability to communicate value, and that comes through practice, lots and lots of practice. And if you aren't videoing yourself, you don't know what you look like because your body language is speaking volumes on that stage. You're pacing, your use of pauses, the confidence that you portray on that stage; all of that stuff is what you're being judged against through someone else. If you are overly using cliches and things that aren't timely in the marketplace, or if you're constantly touting business phrases that really don't mean much, then you got to be able to know that stuff. And so, the only way to do is getting on that stage and getting feedback and obviously hiring coaches and getting in front of groups. Anything you can do to constantly be speaking.

Josh Linkner:

Got to do the reps. There's no shortcut to it. And it's funny because, if you were learning a new skill like violin or tennis or whatever, you're like, "Yeah, of course, I got to practice." But because we speak in real life at the dinner table, with our friends, we think, "Oh, well I speak all the time. I gave a great toast to my aunt's wedding. I'm prepared." Not that those aren't good things, obviously, but this is a new craft. It does require the same discipline and focus and sacrifice, and yes, repetition that learning any new skill really entails.

Josh Linkner:

So are there... I had a question for you, because you said earlier that you, at the time you were talking to Ryan didn't work much with bureaus. What percentage of your current business, on the keynote front not the private seminars that you do, is bureau related versus not?

Rene Rodriguez:

I maybe get one or two a year at the moment, maybe, and they're...

Josh Linkner:

Wow.

Rene Rodriguez:

If that. Yeah, if that. I'd like more. I mean, it's funny. So, Jeff Bigelow, I love that guy to death and some of these other guys are... I'm getting calls from the bureaus because they're getting requests, but it's... The book is really good, it's helping out because it's opening up other markets for us and we're doing some some other pieces, but it's the... What I like about bureaus is that they open up new markets and new industries. But right now, we've been literally so busy with the other ones that we've created that it's... I mean, there's even bureaus, and here's a tip for, you want to work with bureaus? Ryan and Seth told me this one.

Rene Rodriguez:

There was one that came in. The company called me, and then the bureau called me second, and very big bureau. So there was this question of, who gets paid on this, right? And it was 25%, a pretty big fee, right? And so, 25% of 25 grand, it's a lot of money. So, I called the guy and he was there. He was upset that they said, No, we went with Rene direct." I called the broker, or the agent, and I said, "Hey, you talked to him?" He says, "Yeah, we worked on this one for a while and everything." I said, "Great, send me an invoice." He said, "Really?" I said, "Yeah, send me an invoice." I said, "I want to work with you guys."

Rene Rodriguez:

I said, "See this as a good faith to say that this is what it's like to work with me." And he was like, "Holy shit. Okay." And so I did that. Now, I haven't heard anything back yet, but that's, to me, I think that's what it takes though. You can't buy into your own hype in this business. You have to also be, even if I've been doing this 27 years, you still got to be willing to play ball. You still got to understand that the bureaus are there to earn, and they're in business with you, they're in partnership. If they're giving deals and you've got opportunities to give business back, you got to give it back. It's a partnership. And even that with your clients, you got to be constantly willing to play ball. And I watch a lot of these speakers, which I have outrated and outspoken a million times, and they're prima donnas up there, and it just doesn't work. That won't last in the kind of world that we have today. It's way too transparent.

Josh Linkner:

Wow. You touched on a couple good things there. First of all, love the shot at the Jeff Bigelow at SpeakInc. I'm a Bigelow fan myself, and he's just a...

Rene Rodriguez:

Love him.

Josh Linkner:

... Dear friend and lovely person. But I also want to acknowledge the fact that there's another yet, I think it's a third way that you've shattered the conventional approach to being a professional speaker. What do most people think? "You have to have some crazy resume and all these accolades." You've figured it out yourself. "You have to write a book." You've had thousands of speeches and your new book's coming out yet, and so you've done all these speeches before you wrote the book. "You have to work with speaker bureaus." You said you get one or two a year and you do 100 speeches a year. So again, I just love how you're breaking the model and showing all of us that there's more than one path to success.

Josh Linkner:

I did want to drill down on something though, back to your influence expertise, and sorry I'm bouncing a little bit today.

Rene Rodriguez:

No, you're fine.

Josh Linkner:

Must be all this coffee. To me, one of my biggest complaints is when a speaker gets up and it's all about the speaker. "Me, me, me, me, me," and, "Look what I did." And really, a great speech is about the audience. It's not, "Look what I can do," it's, "Look what you can do." And many people who have had success, and nothing wrong with their success, it's awesome, but they come across with arrogance and they're condescending and patronizing, and that's like fingernails on a blackboard to me. Where someone who's a little bit more soft spoken and authentic and even vulnerable, to me, that humility is such a beautiful trait. But I'd love to get, as someone who has studied behavioral psychology and influence, help me understand when someone's real boastful, what does that do to the receiver of that information, versus when somebody is exhibiting humility and grace?

Rene Rodriguez:

It kills it. It kills the credibility, and here's why. So, go back to ethos, right? So, ethos is your credibility and your character. When you see a doctor in front of their name is credibility, but what happens is that people think they own their ethos. We don't own our ethos, our audience does. And when you realize that... We've all seen, we've been excited to see a speaker speak and we go up there and they bomb or they're arrogant. We don't go, "Well, since they own their ethos, I can't say that they were bad." No. We say, "That sucked, give me that ethos back," and we might give them a negative review. Your audience owns the ethos.

Rene Rodriguez:

I was just at an event, we had 1000 people there. I like to get there early. I hang out in the audience before I go up there. I'm there probably an hour early and I'm shaking hands, talking to people. That's a way for me to connect with the audience. I probably get a chance to shake 80% of the hands, and I will literally walk up and down the aisle because I'm there, client hired me, so I'm connecting and I'm learning who's my audience, what's going on. Good amount of people know that it's me some, some don't which is fun.

Rene Rodriguez:

And then I get up there and I'm up on stage, and all of a sudden, it's a second time that I'm seeing them. I've already connected with most of the people, and now they all feel connected to me. I'm connected to them. This is our second meeting. So, it's just real relaxed for both of us, and I don't have to jump around on stage. We're having a conversation.

Rene Rodriguez:

Somebody said to me, they go, "Rene, thanks for coming today." And I said, "No, thank you." I said, "Do you know how silly it feels to be up on a stage and no one in the audience?" I said, "Trust me. Most of my career was me on stage and no one in that audience." I said, "So, this is a partnership. So, thank you for coming." And that is a genuine feeling. And when you realize that it is a privilege to be on that stage, and my job is to add massive value and give them back what they have the choice of being somewhere else; that puts you, I think, in the right mindset. And anything about boastfulness, that's why I think it's important to have somebody else do your intro. Somebody else read your bio, because it sounds way better than somebody else reading it versus than you.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, no question about it. So, having done this for a couple decades and done extensive research into psychology and influence and such, what's the thing that you know now that you wish you knew back when you were getting started?

Rene Rodriguez:

Brand. Brand. That's Ryan's fault. You could be great at something, but if no one knows what you do, it doesn't matter. So, let's have a nerdy conversation for a minute. So, 30 years ago, and this is an extension. So one, so the answer is, you have to have a personal brand. You have to brand yourself. Every aspect of what branding means, you need to have that. Brand consistency. You have to have the colors that fit you. You have to have a copywriter that understands how to put into words what your essence is, and don't skimp on a copywriter. A good copywriter will help you put into words the feelings and the essence of what you've been trying to say. They will capture it in phrases that are worth millions to you. And so, do all of the pieces when it comes to your brand. And it's not just a logo. It begins with copy. You have to have a good copywriter to do that.

Rene Rodriguez:

And so, but right now the importance of branding is critical because we have a gap in communication. 30, 40 years ago, there was no information out there about emotional intelligence. When I first was writing my dissertation on emotions, 27 years, 28 years ago, there wasn't information on human emotion. People died very close to where they worked and where they were born. And if I worked for you, Josh, I saw you every single day. We probably went to the same barber, when I had hair. You might have coached my kids in sports. We went to the same grocer, maybe to the same church, and there was so much communication interaction that I knew your nuances, I knew your facial expressions. I knew all of that stuff. And so, I knew who you were.

Rene Rodriguez:

And so now the introduction of digital technologies, the advancements of transportation and digital communications, we willingly start moving further and further away from our communities. And so, as we start moving further and further away, we start now seeing each other less, but yet thinking we still know each other.

Rene Rodriguez:

And so to... Give you an example. Did you see that pause for a minute? Did you see what happened internally for you when I paused? Did you have a response? Most people listening to this probably thought maybe that something, there was a glitch. Maybe as the host, you had a little chill going up your spine saying, "Uh-oh, did Rene forget something?" And so what happens is that gap of information, even as subtle as a second and a half to two seconds, your brain doesn't handle and it begins to fill it.

Rene Rodriguez:

That little concept applies in communications in the workplace, but it also applies in your brand. Since we don't see each other often, I have a narrative gap in our relationship, and there's no gap. Now, if I'm just now a motivational speaker now, and I've never seen you, never read about you, I don't know who you are, I don't know what you believe, I don't know anything on social media, I don't know anything about you; I'm going to apply any sort of past experience of what I believe are in motivational speakers onto you when I see you.

Rene Rodriguez:

I have to out-communicate that. I have to out-brand that. I have to put out so much information of who I am, what I believe through video, audio, books, articles, not just social media, but I have to make phone calls. I have to do everything I can, every mode of communication so that I bridge the narrative gap of what my profession is. Otherwise, I am a victim of what people might think, and I can't control that. And so, branding and filling that narrative gap is what I would put all my attention on.

Josh Linkner:

So good. Well, last question for you before we say goodbye, and I know... We're very grateful for your time today. You have been in this industry for quite some time, and I believe you'll be in it for some time yet to come. You're like me, someone is passionately committed to this industry. What is your wish for our industry? What is your wish what will change and evolve and grow, as the world changes and of course the world of professional speaking changes as well?

Rene Rodriguez:

That is a wonderful question. My wish is this; is that people realize that our stories are what people want, that we want... We don't need the impression of something bigger than what it actually is. We want something that's attainable, we want something that's within our reach. We want something that we can apply. This world used to be a choice. Transparency used to be a choice. It's not anymore.

Rene Rodriguez:

And when people realize that transparency isn't a choice, that's where authenticity now becomes explicit. Where people pretend that they can fake their way through something or pretend to be something that they're not, and then the beauty of people realizing that they have a story to tell and they tell it from their heart and they tell it with passion and they tell it boldly. And that story is enough to create the impact, because it's... You don't have to invent post-its or cure cancer to make an impact on people. We just have to believe who you are, and tell us a story that's applicable and relevant to my life. And if I believe you, that is way more powerful than some accolade or some title. I believe you, and the story is relevant to me? That to me, is going to create an impact. And if I can make an impact on one, but just a lot of individuals are listening, now I impact many. And so, belief that who you are is that story, and learn how to tell the story. That, to me, is my wish.

Josh Linkner:

Well, Rene, thank you for your wisdom today. Congratulations on the new book, and thanks for continuing to be such an important force and a leader in our industry. Wishing you all the continued success, and I'll see you out on the road, my brother.

Rene Rodriguez:

Thank you, and it is an honor to be here, Josh. Thank you, and thank you for all you're doing, and this work that you guys are all doing is critical. So, thank you so much. It was an honor.

Josh Linkner:

I really enjoyed my chat with fellow mold-breaker and creative troublemaker, Rene Rodriguez. Here are a few of my favorite takeaways. Number one, I loved how Rene dispelled so many myths about the speaking business. He's a well-respected expert with no advanced degrees. He speaks over 100 times a year, but barely works with speaker bureaus. He's not afraid to change lanes and speak on a different topic. His first book is coming out 27 years after he started in professional speaking. The lesson here for us all? We don't need to follow a preordained route, and we shouldn't feel defeated if we're missing any of the conventional markers that lead to speaking success.

Josh Linkner:

Number two, you can tell how much Rene loves the craft. When he rattled off technical elements such as sequencing, timing, expressions, body language, and vocal tone; you can just tell this guy knows his stuff, and it's so great to see someone taking his profession so seriously.

Josh Linkner:

And finally, he really made me think about my own influence. Keynote speakers aren't there to confirm existing beliefs. We show up to reveal surprising truths, to reframe thinking, to open up new approaches. Let's face it, we're in the aha business, so developing our influence is critical to success in the world of professional speaking. I can't wait to pick up Rene's new book, Amplify Influence, and I hope you're equally amped to take your influence and your speaking game to the next level.

Josh Linkner:

Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share with your friends, and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit MicDropPodcast.com. Mic drop is produced and presented by eSpeakers. And a big thanks to our sponsor, 3 Ring Circus.

Josh Linkner:

I'm your host, Josh Linker. Thanks for listening, and here's to your Mic Drop moment.