Mic Drop

West Coast (Bureau) Innovation (ft. Ken Sterling)

Episode Summary

In today's episode, we cover how BigSpeak applied disruptive innovation to become the fastest growing bureau in the US. We’ll also discuss what buyers are looking for these days when selecting keynote speakers, the biggest shift in the speaking industry in the last five years (no, it's not Covid) and new formats beyond the typical 60-minute keynote.

Episode Notes

West Coast (Bureau) Innovation (ft. Ken Sterling)

OPENING QUOTE:

“I'm a homeless kid from New York who wants to connect and wants to be around people, and wants to be safe myself, and wants to make the world a safe place. And really my true north is people and living a positive, collaborative lifestyle with the people that I care about and that help make the world a better place.”

-Ken Sterling

GUEST BIO:

Ken Sterling is Executive Vice President and Chief Learning officer of BigSpeak, the largest speaker bureau on the West coast. Ken is famous for designing BigSpeak's Bureau Alliance Program, which has revolutionized the way speaker bureaus collaborate and work together to create more abundance and exposure for their exclusive speaking clients.

Ken holds a PhD in organizational leadership, an MBA, a master's in communication, and a JD. In addition to his leadership role in the speaking industry, Ken also teaches marketing and business ethics and law at UC Santa Barbara.

Links:

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[15:09] - Disruptive Innovation

How BigSpeak built and scaled unlike anyone else

If you want to innovate and truly make your speaking career into something powered by rocket fuel, you can’t take five half-steps. You need to choose one or two pursuits, and then pursue the hell out of them with an all-in mindset. Don’t half-embrace new technologies or new ideas. Embrace them all the way, then pivot if you need to. That’s how Ken helped BigSpeak innovate in a big way.

[22:22] - What a Buyer Wants

It’s more than the topics

Buyers today want authenticity. They want unique perspectives, including those from diverse voices. They want speakers to demonstrate their capability not just onstage but in writing and other areas of your career. It’s about more than just matching a specific topic. It’s about representing something that a buyer can’t find in any other speaker.

[23:33] - The Other Pandemic

“Unprecedented times” indeed

Everyone focuses on COVID as the biggest shift to the speaking industry in recent memory. But to Ken, the bigger transformation was the shift toward more diverse and inclusive voices. In a world post-George Floyd and other events spurring conversations about marginalized voices, the speaking world is finally moving beyond the “white old guy in a suit” model for all speakers. There is — and has to be — room for diverse voices.

[29:40] - The One Thing

Setting yourself apart as a speaker

Ken advises that if a speaking topic is too broad, an audience won’t feel like they’re getting something new out of the hour they devote to your performance. Meanwhile, having a “one thing” which Ken calls your “zone of genius” helps set you apart in a crowded market, more than being the 1,000th speaker promising to simply “boost productivity.”

[35:24] - Find Your True North

The missing ingredient for many speakers

Too many speakers begin from a place of identifying what’s hot in the speaker world, then trying to go after that. Instead, Ken advises that speakers start with what they truly own and have mastered — and are excited by! — and then finding a way to match that message to the current zeitgeist. Buyers want someone who truly owns their message, not someone who is following the latest trend.

RESOURCES:

[1:30] About BigSpeak
[23:07] Ken’s INC Column

Follow Ken Sterling:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

Episode Transcription

Ken Sterling:

I'm a homeless kid from New York who wants to connect and wants to be around people, and wants to be safe myself, and wants to make the world a safe place. And really my true north is people and living a positive, collaborative lifestyle with the people that I care about and that help make the world a better place.

Josh Linkner:

Hey MicDrop enthusiast, Josh Linkner here. Delighted to be bringing you season two of MicDrop. I love our conversations with speakers and industry leaders alike so we can unpack the industry and we can all perform better. Let's get after it and get better together. Mic Drop is brought to you by Impact Eleven, the most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers to get on bigger stages at higher fees with greater impact, faster.

Maria Cairo:

Mic Drop is brought to you by ImpactEleven, the most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers to get on bigger stages at higher fees with greater impact, faster.

They're not just elevating an industry that we all know and love. They work with thousands of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses. Accelerating time to success, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field.

To learn more about the ImpactEleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impact, E-L-E-V-E-N, .com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

Today on Mic Drop, I sit down with one of the most highly credentialed bureau executives and coolest guys on the planet. Ken Sterling is Executive Vice President and Chief Learning officer of BigSpeak, the largest speaker bureau on the West coast. Ken is famous for designing BigSpeak's Bureau Alliance Program, which has revolutionized the way speaker bureaus collaborate and work together to create more abundance and exposure for their exclusive speaking clients.

Back to those credentials, get this, Ken holds a PhD in organizational leadership, an MBA, a master's in communication, and a JD. Yep, a lawyer too. In addition to his leadership role in the speaking industry, he also teaches marketing and business ethics and law at UC Santa Barbara. On today's episode, we cover how BigSpeak applied disruptive innovation to become the fastest growing bureau in the US. What planners, AKA buyers, are looking for these days when selecting keynote speakers? The biggest shift in the speaking industry in the last five years, and no, it's not Covid, and new formats beyond the typical 60-minute keynote. We also play this little game of this or that where I ask Ken to choose one of two answers and he helps us unpack the industry and what the market really wants from speakers. So buckle in and get ready for some major wisdom bombs.

Ken, welcome to Mic Drop.

Ken Sterling:

Thanks for having me, Josh. It's so awesome to be here. Known you for years. Think you're amazing, and to be in your universe doing this is just a treasured moment.

Josh Linkner:

Well, thanks, man. Feeling the same way. And speaking of a lot of years, we have had a lot of years of history, but our industry is changing at a really dramatic rate. I wanted to just dive in though, to set the stage. Can you tell us a little bit about BigSpeak and a little bit about your background? What led you to this point in time? And then we'll get on with what's happening now and in the future?

Ken Sterling:

Sure. BigSpeak is, gosh, 27 years young. Right around this time of the year, our founder and chairman, Jonathan, had sold an Inc. 500 company back in the day, and he was at Esalen and was contemplating what his next move was. And apparently he was in one of those hot tubs at Esalen and he got this kind of visioning about getting into corporations and helping them change the world, basically CSR and ESG before it was what it was. And as you can imagine, in the mid-nineties, nobody knew how to think about that. He started the company and called it Consciousness Unlimited. So there was no Google. Companies couldn't find it. They didn't want to buy it.

And the joke is right around 2000, he rebranded the company to be a pure place speakers bureau and called it BigSpeak. So once our initials became BS, we became commercially successful. And now we serve over 70. It's true and funny and, as you know, we're not BSers, but it's fun to joke about it. We now serve 75% of the Fortune 1000. We're the largest business bureau out there and very engaged. We'll do probably about 1800 events this year. So making a big impact with a lot of great companies, a lot of great speakers like you and your partners at ImpactEleven and all the members.

Josh Linkner:

That's awesome. And help us understand, I know you were involved from the very early days as an advisor and coach, and then you came full-time a little bit later. How did you get into this crazy world of professional speaking? Now, for those that don't know you, you have a background. I could go on and on. It's unbelievable how many degrees you have, but you have a PhD, you have an MBA, I think you have a law degree. Is that right also?

Ken Sterling:

I'm also an attorney.

Josh Linkner:

I've never met somebody with this. You're probably the most highly credentialed person in our entire industry, so quite the opposite of the initials of BS. But how did you personally get involved in this industry?

Ken Sterling:

Great question. So the founder, Jonathan, that I mentioned, I've known him for years, and back in the day, he was a traditional CEO who had a support staff and an assistant. And computers had just come out, and I lived down the street, and the agreement was that if I helped him with his computer or figure out this thing called the internet and help him build a basic website, that he would treat me to a Thai dinner. I loved Thai chicken saute and pad thai, and we would hang out and talk about this work that he did. And I always thought the work that he did was great. It just didn't really make a lot of sense to me or connect with me until many, many years later.

And over the years, I helped him and consulted with him on some things and different cycles of the business and some of the great growth opportunities. And back in 2012, he and I were having lunch and we were talking about things and we thought, hey, let's give it a try and have me come in to the business. And initially I started really answering phones, working on contracts, and learning the business from the ground up. And then I've had a great time.

The part of the story that I don't lead with is that Jonathan also is my stepdad, which is wonderful because he's had a really big impact on me. And it was great in the early days to really be of service to him and help him in a way that he had helped me for many years of a very kind of troubled and tangled life that he was always a great beacon there for me. And now we're partners in this business with Barrett. You know Barrett really well. And we have wonderful melody and, you're a jazz musician, the harmonics and the melody and the different things that the three of us bring to the table are really treasured and very special.

Josh Linkner:

I want to dig in another layer deeper because the industry is a lot of things to a lot of people that no one size fits all approach works. And so when I compare what you're doing, I believe by far the largest bureau on the West Coast, and very much into consciousness and spirituality and connection and love, and I compare that to maybe some of the more larger traditional bureaus on the East Coast, it's really a very different vibe. And I'm curious how some of your bigger corporate clients respond to that. I think many of us who really do want to share what's on our heart, we often cover that up because we're so afraid, "Oh, it's not going to look professional if I'm not wearing a tie or something." But you guys, I think, are soaring. Sounds like many people are connecting with that kind of hard centric, really spiritual vibe. How is that working and how does that apply in the speaking world?

Ken Sterling:

That's a beautiful question. It's working well, and I think the reason it's working well is that we don't get too lost in what we'll all call the woo woo. We really are obsessed with having amazing client experiences, being very consultative. And Jonathan, Barrett, myself all came out of the corporate world and worked in the world where we wore ties. And so we can still show up and play that game and be authentic and genuine. And to be fully transparent, we don't lead too much with the spirituality. Inside the company, we're very much about caring for our team. And that's really what makes us successful, is taking really good care of this team and some would say a family. And by us supporting those folks and upleveling them and working on ourselves and being better versions of ourselves, that's really where the magic comes in. So it's not so much the woo woo spirituality, it's really the doing well by doing good, helping people.

And so yeah, we work with Google and Salesforce and Zendesk and Oracle and some of the most buttoned down companies you could imagine. And if I'm at an event, I'm in a suit. I'm not wearing a tie-dye shirt. But I definitely think that our approach and our vibe, which isn't so much the West Coast casual, it's more the West Coast innovation. And you know this because you're an innovation expert, and if you look at the money and the abundance that's created on the West Coast in Silicon Valley, on Silicon Beach, even in Santa Barbara where we're located, lots of companies have gone public from there.

So what's interesting is that this California thing seems to work. And what's even more interesting is that on the speaker side, we really do have this amazing roster, this team of founders, Silicon Valley founders that people all over the world want to hear from. So I think that's also part of our cool factor, is not just on the client side in terms of the companies that write the checks, it's also on the speaker side of attracting this talent of these. Mark Randolph started Netflix and he surfs and he's a family guy. He's not a Manhattan button down type of guy. So candidly, I don't know if his vibe would fit that.

So candidly, I don't know if his vibe would fit that East Coast Bureau vibe. That was a word salad. I'll let you react to that.

Josh Linkner:

Well, I just love it because I think it shows that you don't have to be only a certain way. We have speakers and those in the industry can show up fully, authentically as themselves. And you mentioned Mark Randolph, and I know Big Speak today has a number of very high profile exclusive speakers that comes to mind, James Clear, and others, how do you think about exclusive versus non-exclusive? So for example, you and I have worked together for years and years. I'm not an exclusive speaker with you or anyone, of course, by the way, but just I'm an independent speaker. And then you have James Clear who's an exclusive. What is sort of the mix of the Bureau between exclusive and non-exclusive, and how do you frame your go-to market strategy accordingly?

Ken Sterling:

Great questions. There's really three categories of speakers in our world, the exclusives, so James Clear, Kevin O'Leary, Tiffany Bova, those kinds of folks, and lots of other folks. Sorry if I'm not naming you out. So those people, Molly Bloom for example, very, very tight relationships, very close. Part of a family and a very small team of people that we don't want to be too big. There's some bureaus that have 200 exclusive speakers and I just don't know how they give them the attention. We're actually constantly kind of pruning our exclusive roster down to be sure we pay attention. So that's the exclusives.

The next category is big experts and friends of the firm. And these are people, like you, that we do a considerable amount of business with. That we candidly, we love you, we love your team, we love your vibe. You're such a contributor to this industry and a real, I mean, maybe somebody else is the Godfather, so we have to come up with a good name for you. I don't know if you're the consilieri, or what your role is, but you're just such a wonderful contributor. You've got a great generosity of spirit. And that's how we approach things too, is this generosity of spirit. Hey, if you're not our exclusive client, that's okay. We can still be friends, we can still work together. And then outside of that bucket are thousands of non-exclusive speakers.

So if you go to BigSpeak's website right now, last we checked about a week ago, I think we have about 2,500 speakers on the website. And out of those 2,500 speakers, about 25 are exclusive. And then I'd say about another 60 are what I would call either big experts or friends of the firm. And then the rest of them are folks that maybe we book once or twice a year, and they're there for a couple different reasons. They have a niche, there's some reasons for diversity or these topics that are a little bespoke that don't always come up. Although we want to have catchalls and we approach those three different relationships uniquely. And every one of those people is a respected and treasured human to us. So whatever of those three teams that somebody's on, we're always, and we say this internally, let's be the good kids in the sandbox. So we're that way with the speakers, we're that way the Bureau channels, of course, we're that way with the companies who write the checks. Being kind, being direct, being effective really makes a lot of difference in all of our relationships.

Josh Linkner:

Couldn't agree more. And so, switching gears a little bit, thinking about our speaker friends in the community, those that are either new to the practice or are growing their business, BigSpeak is an interesting model in that you really push the boundaries. You are very tech forward where other bureaus are not. I think you're doing a lot of really progressive things, not only culturally, but the way you go to market, and you are not afraid to bust out the old model in favor of a new and better one. What advice can we speakers learn from the disruptive approach that you guys have taken at BigSpeak to building and scaling your business?

Ken Sterling:

Oh, that's a deep one. And it's interesting. We did adopt a lot of new things early. What I am seeing lately is that all the bureaus out there are getting pretty tech-savvy and getting pretty forward with their digital footprints. And even some of the old establishment, they're all out there and even some very large bureaus that we'd be surprised that they're doing this. They're buying AdWords, they're on social media. I mean, they're all kind of hustling for this. So the first thing for us and for other bureaus and speakers, to your point, is what do you need to do? Really, really be mindful of what's already going on out there. And that unless you embrace up leveling your game, kind of like what you say at the Impact Eleven bootcamp, at the end of this bootcamp, you're going to do, I don't remember if it's one of two things or one of three things, but one of them is, Hey, I'm all in and on the other side like, Hey, this isn't for me. Was there a middle part of that?

Josh Linkner:

Well, I think the third and riskiest one is being half in, which is not good for anybody, because in any business really, whether you're a speaker or a bureau or anything else, if you're not going to really pour your heart into something, maybe you shouldn't be in that field in the first place.

Ken Sterling:

Exactly. And so, I guess maybe subconsciously I eliminated that, although that's really relevant to your question here and that is don't do half measures. So as you're thinking about yourself as your technology, as your branding, for example, one of your partners and another treasured human to me and such a force of nature on stage, Ryan Estes, and I noticed recently, he's got a rebrand, he's doing carousels on LinkedIn. I mean, that stuff is really, it's catching my eye and this is the stuff that I love and I do all the time. So being intentional, whatever you're going to do, if you want to take one step, take that one step awesome. Don't take six steps that are half measures. To your point, Josh, and I think that's really important as people figure out their speaker strategy, kind of their business growth strategy, their marketing strategy, their messaging, how they're going to garner more business and grow their business.

Josh Linkner:

That's so true. Back to the speaker front, when you've met a new speaker, could you maybe walk us through an example where that's gone really well? They approached you in a thoughtful way, you got to know them, your relationship blossom, maybe you're still working with them today. And then certainly not naming any names, but maybe a couple examples of when it didn't go well. Because I think a lot of the folks who are listening right now, maybe they've got some direct business, maybe they've started in the Bureau channel, but I think they're, the primary goal is to really kind of build and nurture long-standing, thoughtful, deep Bureau relationships. Any kind of best practices that you'd like to share?

Ken Sterling:

Sure. And again, I go back to the bootcamps that you do at Impact Eleven, which are just incredible. I've referred so many people and I get these huge effusive thank-yous after their experience. Sometimes they're literally in the Uber on the way to the airport. And OMG, what a great experience. And what you talk about there is, hey, if you're a speaker, embrace the Bureau channel, and then if you add my little seasoning of be the good kid in the sandbox, and what that really looks like is be open to feedback, bring something to the relationship, be a learner. So examples of speakers who do well that we work with, whether exclusive or not exclusive, are speakers who will listen to suggestions. And we always try to be very kind in this feedback, kind and direct. And sometimes a speaker will be very kind of fixed in their lane of what they talk about, of what they want to talk about, of the videos that they want to play. Lots of different things. You know this, because you run these wonderful classes and experiences for speakers.

So if they're not open to upleveling and change, and if they're not willing to invest, that's another big kind of litmus test for me. So for example, and I know I don't want to out any names, but I do know there's another bureau over on the East Coast who apparently has said they're not going to sign any speakers unless they go to Impact Eleven. So that's a great testimonial for you, if you don't know it already. I ask people who are starting out, if they'd be willing to go to an experience like yours, and if they're not, I'm probably not willing to invest my time, ie money, and team resources if they're not willing to invest as well. So even people, NBA players and Olympic athletes, if they're not willing to hone their craft, that's probably not going to go well for them or for us.

Maria Cairo:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions while driving massive impact for audiences around the world. But the quest to speaking glory can be a slow route with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you're serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at Impact Eleven can help. From crafting your ideal positioning to optimizing your marketing effectiveness, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills. As the only speaker training and development community run by current high level speakers at the top of the field, they'll boost your probability of success and help you get there faster. That's why nearly every major speaker bureau endorses and actively participates in Impact Eleven. The Impact Eleven community provides you unparalleled access to the people, relationships, coaching, and accountability that compresses your time to success. To learn more about the Impact Eleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impact E-L-E-V-E-N dot com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

What do you think about your clients? What planners are looking for these days, how do you think it's changed in the last couple years? One shift that I've seen, and they'll just kick us off is I've seen maybe 10, 15 years ago, some middle-aged white dude in a pinstripe suit with a bright tie and a big giant pocket square, making these gigantic exaggerated gestures, that's gone away. I mean, now it's much more about authenticity, and vulnerability, and being real, but there's also been a lot of other changes, much of which is accelerated by the COVID crisis. If you were to start thinking or just kind of riffing on what do buyers want today, not so much topical areas, but what are they looking for from their speakers, how would you respond?

Ken Sterling:

I love these questions. You really nailed it, diversity. Not the middle-aged white guy, not the death by PowerPoint. Also, in terms of authenticity that you mentioned, it's not the, "Hi, I'm speaker X and I'm here to tell you about the three things you need to know about widgets." The first thing, the second, boom, boom, boom, and now I just told you it. That's very not working these days. The other thing that's really interesting... And here's what I love, I've been writing. I have a column on Inc. I have a column on Forbes. I have columns on ATD and some of the speaker platforms. I've been writing for years about two things. First, keynotes aren't always the best experience. I really love a unique custom moderated session, and I can unpack that a little bit even for somebody like you where I think people get a richer experience.

The other piece is the diversity piece, and I've been writing about this for eight years. Diversity, getting more females, getting more people of color up on stage because it's what the world looks like, it's what your employees look like, it's what your customers look like, and it's really about community. So what happened with COVID, it wasn't just COVID. If we can just put the cards on the table, it was also George Floyd. And then after George Floyd, it was Asian Lives Matters.

So some very profound things. This melting pot of circumstances happen, which made these things that we've been talking about for years, the nice to haves, must haves. There are actually large Fortune 1000 companies that we get RFQs from and that we actually get vendor paperwork from that requires us to now complete diversity questionnaires. What percentage of our employees come from diverse backgrounds? What percentage of speakers and vendors that we work with?

So that's a big must. And some people call those check boxes, which I think really diminishes the importance and the beauty of what we're seeing. The other thing is seeing different kinds of people up on stage I think is a good thing for the audience. So different cadences, different looks, different tones of voice, different backgrounds. And you know because you're an innovation expert. If we want to be innovative, homogeneity is not the answer. It's got to be something that really mixes things up.

So mixing it up on stage, on camera. The other thing since we're talking about COVID and shifts is that we've kind of gone from the long form up on stage or the long form on Zoom of this one hour keynote of slides and bullet points, and data to now shortening that. So on a virtual, what we're recommending... And most of the big companies are listening already know this, we're recommending a 30 to 35-minute keynote prepared remarks and then the rest of the session to be a moderated fireside chat or the entire thing to be a moderated fireside chat.

Here's an example. You're an expert. You're the top innovation speaker out there. You're engaging, you're exciting. I know because I've worked with you a lot. You customize and you really get in there and connect what you talk about and your zone of genius to the company. And that's great, except when you're talking about the event planner, I say they want save the world kitchen sink. And what that means is that they want the speaker to come in. We need to do more with less. We're going through change. We just merged. We all had private offices.

Now, we're an open plan. One of our leaders just got fired for some inappropriate thing and we need to grow a 25%. Go ahead and solve that for us, Josh, in 60 minutes. And there's just no possible way you can do that. And what I do and what I think good speakers and agents and managers do is slow the train down because if you just want to be an order taker and say yes later after the event, it's not going to be a good review.

So what we do is we slow things down. "Hey, we understand these are all really important objectives for Company X. Josh is incredible and in his zone of genius, he covers these things. So how about if the sponsoring executive comes out, talks about the challenges the group is going through, and to talk about innovation, we brought in the world expert Josh Linkner. Josh is going to talk with us for 30 minutes and give us some of his learnings. And then after that, we're going to have a custom fireside chat with Josh just about what we do here at Company X." And then they can solve for world peace, and then they can solve for change, and then they can solve for doing... All those things can be questions that really dial it in and that gets them what they need and it keeps you in your zone of genius.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, I love that approach. And it starts to feel much more authentic and customized than someone just telling a story that they've told 675 times already on the same stage. Ken, I wanted to play a fun little game where I'll basically give you two choices and you'll respond based on essentially what meeting planners in general would prefer. So just as a fun silly example, if it's scripted versus authentic, most meeting planners would choose...

Ken Sterling:

Authentic 100%.

Josh Linkner:

100%. Okay, cool. So let's continue on with our fun little game here. Stories that are only about the presenter or a keynote that includes some stories about the presenter, but also stories about not the presenter. In other words, someone who's totally centered on themselves as the presenter, their own story versus other people's stories.

Ken Sterling:

Be other people's stories.

Josh Linkner:

And certainly there's exceptions, but even people like... For example, I know you represent Molly Bloom as an amazing personal story, but I'm sure that the most successful speakers not only talk about their story, but also share stories about others. So I think you're one for one so far. We'll keep going. One question I had for you is entertaining or actionable. And this is a tricky one because I'm sure the answer is right in the middle somewhere, but are you sensing that planners in general are leaning into more of that pure inspirational, lots of fun storytelling with less takeaway value or they're looking for more depth and substance even if it means dialing down the entertainment factor a little bit?

Ken Sterling:

Great question. I don't know if we coined this phrase or not. We refer to it as infotainment. So it really is right down the middle. It's got to be actionable and it can't be dry. So it's got to be entertaining, informational, and actionable.

Josh Linkner:

Do all the above in that case. I'm with you. Next question is broad or focused? Covering a really wide range of topics quickly or being really deep in one thing?

Ken Sterling:

That is a great question, and the short answer is it depends. Although I think what people really want, unless we're talking about a celebrity in this broad sweeping story of your life kind of a thing, when you get an audience to sit down in front of Zoom or in a ballroom, you got to have something that's pretty niche and pretty specific to what they're doing. I think for two reasons. One, if it's too broad, if it's too broad even with a cool accent, even with a great bow tie, it's just going to be very foundational and basic. And the audience is going to feel like, "Wow, I wish I had that hour of my life back."

So I do think it's important that a speaker, thought leader really has a lane and really has a zone of genius. And the question that I ask speakers is, "What's that one thing that you have? What's that gift that only you have that only you can explain with your point of view that people need to hear?" And to me that means narrow and deep versus broad.

Josh Linkner:

Agreed. Next one is in general meeting planner want someone who is an A plus speaker, but a D in terms of user-friendliness? They're a pain to get on the call. There's all this dramatic stuff, there's all these restrictions and it's a pain in the neck versus somebody who's a B plus speaker, but an A in terms of their service to the client?

Ken Sterling:

Oh, no one's ever asked me that question before. And we book both. At the end of the day, the stakeholder that we all are working for is the audience. So what happens backstage? What happens before the event the audience should never know about? So this might be heresy. I would say, for the audience to have the best experience, an A or an A plus speaker and a B or a B plus bedside manner and offstage experience. And that's where management companies and bureaus, and good event managers come in, is they insulate that stuff from the audience. That's a great question. What I can say is, for example, the exclusive speakers that we deal with are A pluses in both.

And that's actually my requirement. Are these people good humans? Are these people that I want to have a glass of wine with? Are they caring people? There are some speakers out there that have a reputation for sure. Maybe they do a home run on stage and either them or their handlers are really difficult to deal with, and it's almost kind of legendary in our industry. What I will say is those kind of speakers are usually booked as a last resort. If there's a choice out there of an A speaker who's an A on and off stage, they're going to get it nine times out of 10.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, totally agree. And then the last one I had for you is sort of provocative or confirmatory. In other words, somebody who comes in as a real thought leader and really pushes people to think differently, to challenge conventional wisdom, to reveal net new fresh ideas, surprising truths, versus somebody that comes in and tells people truisms, but they're a bit cliche. Hardworking teamwork. Yay. So I guess the question is sort of someone's willing to push the audience to a new place versus someone that confirms where the audience, their views already are.

Ken Sterling:

Yeah, there is no I in team. Yeah, 100% provocative, although I do a modifier on that. I think what I like is counterintuitive. Sometimes provocative for me just evokes something that maybe just is attention grabbing, whereas counterintuitive to me, intuit means something that we feel with, that we connect with. There might be some intelligence involved in it, and counter meaning, "Hey, this is a different way of thinking." And that's now that I think about it when I'm speaking with companies that are booking speakers, I use that word a lot. It's counterintuitive that they say this or that they do that, or that their message is really about this. The other thing is that when we go against the grain, so if we're cliche and we're doing the same old, same old, that's when people whip out their iPhones and that's when you lose them. When you're telling them something that's a little bit like, "Oh, I better pay attention here," they're going to stay more in tune.

Josh Linkner:

Couldn't agree more, my friend. Well, in our final moments together, and I'm so grateful for your time with me today and your friendship and partnership over the years, if you had to give one piece of advice to a speaker, let's say they're just getting rolling. It's not their first gig, but it's not their 100th either, and they're committed to it, their heart's in the right place, they have a message that's powerful, they want to make a difference in the world. What are some Ken nuggets that they should take back and put into use?

Ken Sterling:

And I have these conversations several times a week with prospective speakers, and one of the things that I am always coaching them on is staying to their true north. A lot of times I get the, "Well, what's selling right now? What are your top six topics?" And I'll let them know and I'll say, those are those. And what I'll say is, what I really encourage you to do is do something that you really own and that you really master, that you enjoy talking about. And maybe we're not the right place for you, or maybe our audiences aren't, but there's a lot of other bureaus and a lot of other audiences out there that want to hear your message. Recently, we were put in touch with somebody who does some talks around wellness, a certain kind of niche of wellness, which I found fascinating, and I even do it myself.

What I explained to that person is, we don't really have a market for you of these 1800 to 2000 events that we're going to do this year. When I look, historically, we haven't done one in this category. So the tendency would be, "Oh, well, I could adapt or I could change." And I'm always trying to get them back to the north of, "No, do what you love," cliche, do what you're passionate about, follow your passion. But yes, really follow your passion. That's number one. Number two, when you talk about this at your bootcamp, you've got to do it 20 or 30 times. You've got to get those reps in. So as much as you can, go to schools, go to Rotary, go to Toastmasters, go everywhere and anywhere you can and give that talk and tape yourself and watch it. Watch the whole thing. Listen to just the audio. Turn off the audio, just look at your body movements, all of these things. If this is what you want to do, you've got to play major league ball. And what do the major league ball players do? They watch tape.

Josh Linkner:

Couldn't agree more. As we wrap things up here, you mentioned that speakers should follow their true north. My question to you, my friend is what's your true north?

Ken Sterling:

My true north, I'm living my true north and I love it. And Barrett and I comment on this a lot. We'll walk through the hall or we'll be down and we've got a nice kitchen in our office and drinking a coffee. And we're just kind of in amazement of this life that we live, this career that we do, working with awesome people like you, working with Fortune 1000 companies. And one of us will say to the other, "We're not selling servers." And by the way, I'm not saying anything to people who are selling servers. I actually used to sell servers, and Barrett was also in tech sales. So actually, we mean it and we lived it, and there's great things there, but we're doing some really cool stuff and we're making a difference in the world. And that to me is the true north.

For another time, I'm a homeless kid from New York who wants to connect and wants to be around people and wants to be safe myself, wants to make the world a safe place, and that is my true north. If I'm doing that, and you and I spent time together and drank wine together, really my true north is people and living a positive collaborative lifestyle with the people that I care about and to help make the world a better place.

Josh Linkner:

What a beautiful place to end our conversation. And you really are doing that. You and the team are making a difference in people's lives, businesses, and hearts. And for that, I think we're all deeply grateful. So Ken, thank you so much. Thanks for sharing your mic drop moments with us, and here's wishing you and Barrett and Jonathan a continued marvelous success and impact.

Ken Sterling:

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Josh.

Josh Linkner:

The intellect of a professor with the humility of a monk. I both learn and feel something profound every time I connect with Ken Sterling. Here are a few takeaways that really stood out to me from today's conversation. Number one, Ken reinforced how the industry has room for people of all different backgrounds, belief systems, and vibes. It's the opposite of a one size fits all, and in fact, there's plenty of room for us all. Number two, I loved his question, "What's the one thing that you have? What's the gift that only you have and that only you can explain with your point of view and that people need to hear?" I can't wait to reflect on that. This powerful question can help us all sharpen our message and positioning.

And number three, the discussion around true north really hit me in the heart. Not always easy to find, but once we do, it becomes the foundation for every choice we make as a keynote speaker, from content to research, to distribution strategy. Ken told us he's a kid from New York who wants to live a collaborative lifestyle with the people he cares about while helping to make the world a better place. Now that's a true north. What a powerful mission from a powerful and soulful friend and partner. Thanks again to my dear buddy, Ken Sterling.

Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next mic drop moment.