What are agents actually looking for when they book a speaker? In this episode, host Josh Linkner sits down with two top agents — Brittanny Kreutzer and Jeff Bigelow — for an honest conversation about what really moves the needle. Brittanny and Jeff share what’s changed in the industry over the past five years, including shifts in client expectations, the impact of AI, and how the buying process has evolved. They also get specific about what makes a speaker stand out (and what sends up red flags), why tone and pre-event calls matter, and how inflation is influencing fees. Whether you're looking to get booked more often or build stronger relationships with bureaus, this episode offers a rare look at what agents wish more speakers understood.
Brittanny Kreutzer started The Speaker Exchange Agency with a background in sales and a love for the speaking industry. She was given a taste of the speaking industry while interning in college for Nancy Lauterbach, a past speakers bureau owner. Upon graduation from college she began a successful career selling radio space and developing radio campaigns for CBS Radio in Kansas City; however, after a few years the excitement of the speaking industry drew her back in. After working at a speakers bureau for several years and becoming one of the top sales executives, she took a break to spend time with her newborn baby Madison. The love she has for this industry struck again and after only a short month's break, Brittanny combined forces with her past colleague and friend, Julie Homsey, to create The Speaker Exchange Agency, LLC.
Jeff Bigelow joined SpeakInc in 1995, became Partner in 1996, and with over seventeen years of experience in the industry, still loves what he does. Jeff is a graduate of California State University of Northridge with a B.A. in Radio, Television, Film. At SpeakInc he works both in the corporate market, as well as the association market and is actively involved in the American Society of Association Executives (ASAE). Outside of his time in the office, Jeff can be found relaxing at the nearest beach or swinging the clubs on one of Southern California's amazing golf courses. What brings him the most joy, of course, is spending time with his wife, Denise, and daughter, Faith.
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Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is powered by ImpactEleven.
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On the business front, he’s been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he’s helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He’s twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.
While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world’s foremost experts on innovation.
Josh is the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he’s on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.
Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com
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Brittanny Kreutzer 0:00
I went on ChatGPT, and I found these people, and then they're at these prices, and it's completely wrong. We're gonna have to differentiate ourselves from ChatGPT and then LinkedIn.
Josh Linkner 0:20
Hey everyone, Josh Linker here. Welcome to Season Four of Mic Drop, the number one podcast for professional speakers. We believe deeply that words and ideas delivered with passion and precision change the world. To help you create the biggest possible impact, we dig into what it really takes to scale your speaking business. You'll hear behind-the-scenes stories from speakers at various stages, from those experiencing early success to those who have built seven-figure speaking practices and beyond. You'll also hear from bureau execs, meeting planners and industry experts to help fuel your continued growth and success. Wherever you are now, there's a next step. Let's take that step together.
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Josh Linkner 2:11
Hey everyone, Josh Linkner here. You're about to get a rare behind-the-scenes look at how buying decisions actually get made in the world of professional speaking. My guests today are two of the most respected voices in our industry — Brittanny Kreutzer, Partner at Speaker Exchange Agency, and Jeff Bigelow, Senior Partner at SpeakInc. They both have decades of bureau experience and an incredible read on how the business has evolved. This one is especially gonna land for the speakers and agents out there who want to understand why the buying cycle has shrunk so much, how AI is impacting speaker pricing, and how to stay top of mind without being annoying. Plus, you'll learn how they really feel about unsolicited speaker updates, what makes someone part of their top 5% inner circle, and how to navigate this human-first, tech-disrupted world. If you've ever wondered why you're not getting booked from bureaus, or how to get booked more often, this is the episode for you.
Josh Linkner 3:08
Brittanny and Jeff, welcome to Mic Drop.
Jeff Bigelow 3:11
Thank you for having me, buddy.
Brittanny Kreutzer 3:12
Thanks for having us.
Josh Linkner 3:12
Well, I'm really looking forward to hanging out with two of my favorite people in the industry with a lot of experience, to explore not only where things were, but more importantly where they are now and where they're headed. And so, one thing I'd love for you to talk about, and I'll actually toss the question to each of you, is what do you think is different about your work today versus five years ago? And just for context, as I mentioned in the introduction, both of you are at the forefront of the speaking industry and obviously representing speakers as a bureau, but what's different about your work today versus in the past? Brittanny?
Brittanny Kreutzer 3:44
Yeah, I mean I think there's a lot different. For one, there's a lot more speakers, so I think I actually spend a lot more time reviewing speakers' information, speakers are updating their information, and so really staying in front of all that. I think, years ago, they'd have the same topics for years and years, and so now it's like, for us, just really staying in front of what are speakers doing, what's new, things like that. So my business has changed a little bit in that. So, just a lot of options out there.
Jeff Bigelow 3:12
Yeah, I totally agree, Josh. Five years ago, I mean, if somebody were to tell me, "Hey, you know, a technology speaker," off the top of my head, I could send three people, four people right away. Now I need to stay on top of the new speakers out there and make sure that even the ones that I think that I know really well — they have new topics, they have new titles, etc., so new talks...so it's something that no matter how long we both have been in the industry, you need to continue to update materials on the current speakers and the new speakers. So that's totally changed over the last five years.
Josh Linkner 5:00
Yeah, so there's a lot of change on the speaking front. I'd love to shift your view to the client front. And Jeff, maybe we'll stay with you. How are clients different than they were a few years back? And think about your customer persona, you know, what do they want? So if you think about the buyer of five years ago versus the buyer of today, what are the differences?
Jeff Bigelow 5:05
Great question. So at least for me, the buyers have gotten a lot younger. It seems a lot of... I'm running into quite a few people that I've worked with for a long time that are retiring, which is kind of a bummer. But also it seems like, and I don't know if the same for Brittanny, the buying cycle has so dramatically shortened. I mean, normally it used to be when I started, it was 9, 12, months out. I mean, I'm working on events right now that's literally 30, 60 days out. And the problem with that is the expectations for the clients. They don't realize, "What do you mean Josh isn't available?" Well, Josh is a busy speaker. You need to look at Josh six months ago. You know, so you gotta make sure that the client's expectations fall in line with how soon or when they're working on, you know, the event.
Josh Linkner 5:56
That makes a ton of sense. Brittanny, what about you? What are you seeing that's different, in customer persona, how people are identifying speakers, what they want in a speaker?
Brittanny Kreutzer 6:05
Yeah, a lot of ChatGBT. So like, "Oh, I went on ChatGBT, and I found these people, and then they're at these prices," and it's completely wrong. So, you know, in a way, that's good, because we're still, I mean, we're still very needed. I think things get out of... ChatGPT pulls from so many different places that don't have updated information. So, you know, trying to stay in front of these young buyers, like Jeff said, and show them how we're as fast as, try to be, as fast as the internet, knowledgeable, and then bring things to the table to our buyers that are not just things you can find online. So I really try and talk about my personal stories with my speakers, things they've done, side conversations we've had, things that are outside their bio. I think we're going to have to keep doing that to differentiate ourselves from ChatGPT. And then LinkedIn. I mean, LinkedIn is a huge place speakers are actually reaching out to my buyers. So they'll be like, "Oh, I had this speaker reach out, can you follow up?" So, you know, where before, I think speakers didn't have as much access to these clients, they now do. So I think it's just a different ball game of trying to, like, work hand in hand with the speaker, but also, you know, your client's kind of out there on their own looking too.
Josh Linkner 7:14
Yeah, it's fascinating. And I actually wanted to take some time to go much deeper into the buying process. I think for many speakers, it's like this big, weird mystery. It's like this mythical thing, and there's all, you know, they don't understand it at all. And by the way, when it's like that, people reach erroneous conclusions. They're like, "Hey, I took Jeff Bigelow to coffee. How come he hasn't booked me five times in the last week?" And it's obviously, they're not understanding the process. So, we're going to go deep into this today. First, walk us through a typical client request. Jeff, you know a client of yours that you've had for many years calls you on the phone like just start there. What's a typical conversation? How does that even begin?
Jeff Bigelow 7:49
Great question. Typical conversation for me is usually email or a text. I rarely, rarely get calls, but when I do, it's if I've worked with them for a long time, then they usually know, or usually realize that I know what they're looking for just based on the past speakers they've used. If they've used you, I usually have a couple of ideas on people that I think would work well. But for me, all I really need to know from the client, if I'm not as familiar with them as I would like to be, is the topics they're looking for, you know, the event location and the date. And once I have that information, usually I can get them, you know, a couple of ideas quickly, but that's really, all I really need to know. But most importantly is topics and budget, of course, because you know, if they're like, like Brittanny brought up with the ChatGBT if you know, they think so,and so is a speaker that's a third of the price, then you know, it's just, yeah... the budget and the topics are vital for me, of course.
Josh Linkner 8:50
So Jeff, I wanna stay with you for a second, and Brittanny I'll toss it to you in a minute. But, so that's what you need, and that's, that's helpful, I think, for everyone to understand. But let's say you get an email instead of a phone call. That's a good point, text or email. Maybe it's even from someone you haven't worked with and you don't have and you don't have, like, intimate knowledge of them, you haven't, like, hung out with them in person, like a typical go to, like, a meat and potato request. What do they say in the email? Like, what's the first input that you're getting?
Jeff Bigelow 9:12
Gosh, it depends on how detailed it is. Sometimes it's really detailed. They'll tell me about their event, or they give me the link to their event, and I'll look at it. And if it doesn't have a ton of information, usually they'll give me the background information on the company or the association or something. But if it's not like, like Brittanny mentioned with LinkedIn, and that's a pretty good resource, you know, I'll, rather than fire right back with questions, I want them to see that I could do some research on my end. You know, in like, whether it's LinkedIn, whether it's go to their site, whether whatever it is, I don't want to just fire back with pretty simple questions that I could easily find the answers for myself. So I'll do my own research if they haven't provided me enough of it in the initial email.
Josh Linkner 9:59
Got it. Okay, so Brittanny, same thing for you. When a client reaches out. I know they're all different, but, you know, general, typical type of thing, how much are they really asking for specifically versus, like, I just need some ideas. Like, are they really focused in on what they want to start with? Or are they more open?
Brittanny Kreutzer 10:16
Most clients actually, I don't think they know, and we don't tend to get a lot. I will be honest. It's like, "My boss told me to get a leadership speaker, and here's my budget." And so then I think for us, it's kind of like, I'm like, "Okay, well, how many people are in the audience? What are your goals when they leave?" And then I've always asked, like, "Who have you had before? Like, what's your style? Do you like interaction? Do you like facts and data?" There's so many speakers, and I think for me, I'm really trying to hone down, like who the client almost is a little bit more, because that's how you refine the types of speakers you're going to put in. And then I always throw typically, in a wild card. So I'll put it just in a wild card that they didn't even ask for, that doesn't really make sense, because sometimes they don't know what they want, until they see it. So I just don't think clients actually give us enough, which is hence why we can't give speakers a lot of...
Josh Linkner 11:06
So I love that we just said there you ask about their tone. So again, maybe a speaker will only think that you're sharing based on topical area of expertise. But there could be 10 different innovation speakers and have a completely different vibe altogether. When you say, you use a good dimension you want it like more more facts and figures, more like emotional... what are the other dynamics you think about in that category of tone that you know, what are the choices, in other words, that you provide?
Brittanny Kreutzer 11:30
I'll just say things like, "Do you like humor? Do you like... do you like when the audience interacts with each other and does like activity?" So some people find that really cheesy. They don't like it at all. They are like, "Our people like to sit in their seats. They just take notes. You can barely crack a smile." So any question I can think of, just to help really dive in. And lots of times, like I said, asking who you had before, that helps. Like, who was successful that you picked? Also knowing, then maybe the CEO does a lot of the selecting, I'm like, okay, well, they say they want this, but he's picking this type of speaker, so sometimes the flow of communication of what the meeting planner tells you you want, and actually what they select is very off. And you'll notice that when they say we want an Olympian and then they book a business speaker. It happens all the time to us, so you just have to kind of do your best.
Josh Linkner 12:12
One thing I want to call out to listeners again, because the misconception is, "Well, Brittanny said she liked my reel, and how come she hasn't booked me?" Well, Brittanny might love your reel, but she has to, number one, find a buyer that aligns with the budget, time, availability, topical expertise, vibe. Then, even the person that you're interacting with on the front end of that, the meeting planner, for example, may not be the ultimate decision maker. They may help narrow down a short list, but then have to go to a committee, and then the CEO and the Vice President of Finality and all these other people have to get involved. So it's not, the point of this example: It's not like Brittanny choosing to book or not book you, there's a lot of people that have to green light it for it to happen.
Brittanny Kreutzer 12:51
Correct. And we have a lot of influence at I think, our legacy clients, but those newer clients, I mean, you're still trying to develop that relationship. And they don't always, you know, they just met me, they're not going to be like, "Oh, well, you said to book this person." It doesn't always work that way to our dismay. I wish.
Josh Linkner 13:06
So, as we continue to examine the buying process, I had this question I've been dying to ask both of you, and it's totally okay. You might have completely different answers. But imagine like a pie chart for a second and the question is, what percentage of deals that unfold are in one of these three categories. So you've got to put a percentage on each of these three categories. Category number one is a client requests a specific speaker. "Jeff Bigelow, can you please book me Ryan Estis us on the date. I need Ryan for my event." Second one is, "Hey, I'm doing this event. I really want a sales speaker. Here's my budget. Can you give me three or four names?" That then, and that's you propose names and the client chooses a name. The third category is, you passionately endorse a particular speaker. So again, just quick review, and I would love your percentage. First one is, "Hey, Jeff, can you get me Ryan Estis?" And you're taking the order, you're doing nothing like you're responding to a request. Second was, "Can you give me a few names?" You give them the names, they make the decision. And the third one is, you're in this category most active. They're like, "Hey, who should I have for my event?" You're like, "Listen, I stake my reputation. You have to hire Ryan Estis. He will blow your socks off. I'm not even gonna tell you about another speaker, because this is the speaker for your next event." So Jeff, I'll start with you. How would you allocate percentages in those three categories?
Jeff Bigelow 14:19
I love this and Brittanny and Speakers Exchange, we're so similar, our companies, in that neither of us have exclusives. So unfortunately for me, and probably the same for you, Brittanny, I'm assuming, but fortunately for me, it doesn't happen very often where someone just calls up and says, "Hey, I want to book Josh Linker. You know, he's fantastic. We've got to have him." So that would be my smallest percentage, probably maybe 20% or so. If it's a spin, that's a different ballgame. But that doesn't happen very often. Number two and three, I'm actually going to combine, because here's what I like to normally do. So let's say they want, they say they want a sales speaker. I will give them, usually a couple of options, but I'm going to stake my reputation on my top recommendation. So I will say, "Listen, you want innovation. This guy's been doing it forever. He's got the background. Josh Linkner's your guy. You've gotta trust me on this." I would usually say something along the lines, like, "By far my top recommendation. If you need a couple of others, you can take a look at these two." But I, you know, I will footnote and certainly highlight somebody. I'm not... I don't want to just be the guy that sends five names or something, you know, and it's like, "Hey, I didn't really know what you're looking for, so just maybe, hopefully, you'll pick somebody." I need to be a consultant, and we all need to, you know, earn our keep, so to speak. And we've been doing it for a while, so I combine the second and third category. I do... once in a while, I'll say like, "Hey, this is your guy. Trust me on it." But usually I'm going to combine with what they want, what they're looking for, with just a couple of options and highlighting who I think would be the best choice.
Josh Linkner 16:08
Really interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Brittanny, same question. So what percentage are people requesting a specific speaker, you responding with a few ideas, versus the last one, you really advocating for a specific individual?
Brittanny Kreutzer 16:20
Yeah, I mean, like maybe 10% of people come, and they're like, "I want this one speaker." And it's usually because they saw them in person, you know. So that's very small. I mean, my biggest one is, for sure, like, we don't really know, like, here are the specs, you know, you share ideas. And I think, my legacy clients are the ones I usually like, I've gone to the events, I know who they are implicitly. And I think we have a funny story, Josh, because I pitched you to one of my top clients, and they kind of said, and I was like, "Josh is your guy." And they said, "No, no, no." And we finally got them on the phone, and they call me and they're like, "Josh was our guy." Like, but it's even with my top clients, sometimes even saying, like, "This is your person." It takes like them... I don't know, just sometimes how it works, they just don't listen like they should. So I would say that's probably, I don't know, maybe 20% that I can do that too, and just really push it. It still amazes me how sometimes you then have to push it up the chain. And, you know, it doesn't work out. But mostly it's us just sending ideas. And I always try and push mine though and say, like, "I recommend this because..." and I put a reason.
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Josh Linkner 18:34
It's so helpful, and again, I'm so grateful for you giving us this insider view, because I don't think most people understand that whole buying process. Another thing that seems to me that's changed a lot, and I'd love to get your take on it, and Brittanny, I'll start with you... is, you know, in the past, I feel like, you know, someone said, "Hey, can you hold this date?" I'd say, "sure." And like, "Here's an offer." And I'd say, you know, periodically, someone would say, "Can you send me some testimonials, or would you be willing to hop on a pre booking call?" Now, I think that's more the norm. It seems to me that people are like, you know, again, narrow it to a short list, and then like, they're going to get on a pre booking call with everybody. They want additional information. So they're perhaps putting more importance, or being a little more careful in the buying process. I guess, Brittanny, are you seeing that, and what else are you seeing different in the buying process specifically, versus how things were in the past?
Brittanny Kreutzer 19:24
Yes, it's a lot more involved, right? Before, it's like, your name was submitted, and then you just got the fun phone call that you've been picked. Now, I mean, everyone's really invested. I have a lot of speakers who will send a video right after I, like, put a hold, and some don't even ask me. They just do it. Because we send the client name and information and they'll just shoot a video right back to me. Those actually do work really well. I still think there's a lot of delight and surprise with those for clients who are like, "Wow, they took the time to do this. That must mean that they're really invested." And they get a little bit more information than maybe what their materials show. I think that's huge. I think that's what people are looking for, is the above and beyond. And so I do think, as a speaker like, yes, you're gonna get an inquiry. There's a great chance you're not gonna get it, but to put the time and effort in and the payout of it actually working out, I think, is completely worth it. So yeah, it's definitely changed.
Josh Linkner 20:16
Jeff, what are you seeing in terms of any changes as of late in the buying process?
Jeff Bigelow 20:21
Yeah, I see a ton of pre-booking calls, and which I'm happy to do if I get you or a speaker on the phone, I mean, you know, they're gonna close 95 probably at least percent of the time. So I'm totally happy to do that. But I am surprised now by the amount of my clients that are asking for that. I even have one specific client that no matter my top recommendations, how long I've been looking for them, they literally have to... they will fly across the country, anywhere in the country, to preview the speaker. And I explain to them, I'm like, "Hey, my job is to make you not get on the plane and do the preview." It doesn't matter. So there are certain ones that, no matter what we say or do, I think they're gonna still want, hey, we've narrowed it down to this... I have two this week coming up tomorrow, as a matter of fact. They narrowed it down to two, and they're gonna have a pre-booking call on both. I'm fine with it. I just feel like it takes a little bit longer. Gone are the days, like Brittanny mentioned, like, "Hey, awesome. You looked at them all, booked so and so? Great." I don't see that as much.
Brittanny Kreutzer 21:26
And to kind of dovetail on that, I mean, I think a lot of the time, like, the materials look really good, and then you'll get a speaker on the phone, and I've seen speakers, I mean, they bomb the call, right? So I mean to come in prepared and make sure, you know, like, who the client is, and have some research done is really important on this call. Some people, yes, close them, but some people also don't close them.
Josh Linkner 21:46
Such a good point. Question for you next, maybe Brittanny we'll stay with you for a sec. You mentioned there's so many more speakers now, and how do you keep track of all these speakers? And then I guess sort of the flip of that is, how can we thoughtfully stay top of mind? I mean, not with the folks on this call, but I've had the experience, for example, where I'll go have coffee with a bureau agent, and then I'll get like, four holds in the next week. And the last two months, I had zero holds. And the only thing that changed is, like, maybe I was a little bit more top of mind. So I guess two-part question, how do you keep track, personally, of so many people? And then secondly, what in a sort of thoughtful, optimal, appropriate way, so you're not bombarded, how can we, folks on the other side, stay top of mind?
Brittanny Kreutzer 22:25
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I don't know how we keep track of all the speakers. It is a lot. And I think, yeah, sometimes I'll see something that a speaker puts out on LinkedIn, and this is why, just because you don't get a response from an agent, doesn't mean, don't stop doing what you're doing. I always say you never know when that agent is looking for that topic or there's a keyword or something within marketing or on LinkedIn or in an email. Just never be offended if you don't get a reply back, right? That's the idea. I had a speaker the other day say, "Well, I've emailed someone twice, and I thought we had a great connection, and I never heard back." And I was like, "Well, she probably just isn't in that zone of needing your topic right now. You know, like, it doesn't mean she doesn't like you. It just means that we just don't have a need right now." So and then for us, we have an internal database. So like any keywords and marketing and things like that, I can search internally sometimes for things. I mean, a lot of it's just people I've worked with a long time. I try and keep folders of topics. So like, if I see a speaker, I have all these folders in my Outlook of, like, different topics, and I'll see, oh, Josh does this now. Now he's going in AI. Josh does this now. Now he's going in this one. Very old-school, probably, filing system. So you try and use AI to help you, technology to help you and then just, you know, being out there on social media and around. So all kinds of ways.
Josh Linkner 23:45
So Jeff, I was asking Brittanny what speakers should do. I want to flip the question upside down and what should speakers not do? In other words, what are some of the biggest mistakes that speakers make in working with or trying to work with a bureau?
Jeff Bigelow 23:58
Love the question, and Brittanny, I was laughing at your reply, because, man, can I relate. If a speaker is going to reach out to me and say, "How come you haven't sent me out? I thought we had a great connection." That might be the reason why I'm not going to send you out too much. That's the type of stuff I don't really want to hear about. I like valuable information. So Josh, of course, I keep using you as an example. You're the consummate pro. You've been doing it for so long and so well. If you have something that you feel like is beneficial to me, to market you and to book you, then let me know. And I think I mentioned this at an ImpactEleven, what I don't need is speakers...And I get this very, very often. I just got it earlier today. "Hey, I just wanted to let you know, here are a couple of quotes from like, these past clients." I don't need that. That to me isn't very helpful. That's information like it doesn't... I know you're getting booked, and I know this you're going to get a quote, and they're going to love you, a testimonial. What I really like... so don't send me that stuff. Don't be offended if you don't hear from me. It doesn't, like Brittanny said, it doesn't mean I'm not sending you out. I personally don't place a lot of holds until the client feels interested. So I may have sent a speaker out five times without them even knowing it, but feel free to reach out anytime when it's valuable information. And Brittanny I chuckled, because I literally have folders exactly the same thing in my email. I'm not kidding you, because I don't want to forget about great speakers. Sometimes you get so myopic that you forget about, you know, like, oh my gosh, these speakers. So I move them all over the place.
Josh Linkner 25:42
Love that. Okay, cool. So now I wanted to, I'm so excited to chat with you, I wrote down a bunch of fun questions to talk about. Actually, kind of for both of you, so Jeff, maybe we'll stay with you for a second... Focus in your mind on the top 5% of all speakers. Not just in your preference, but like the ones that are really getting booked, have a thriving business, the ones you trust, the ones you want to work with, the ones that you book regularly. These are the ones have consistent demand, the revenue growth is there, they're creating a lot of impact. So in your mind, explain the differences between, call it that top 5% speaker and the bottom 95%, not so much in terms of their talent or like how they look, but what do they do? What does a top 5% speaker do differently than a bottom 95%speaker?
Jeff Bigelow 26:22
For me, and I have about probably seven to 10 names in my head that I think fall into the category. I refer that to them as simply no-brainers. You know, book them, I sleep easy. I don't need to worry about anything. The pre-booking, the pre-event call, seamless. You get on-site, perfect. Yeah, I don't need to worry about the speaker being high maintenance. Nothing like that. I know the meeting planner is going to love them. On stage, kill it. Not going to bolt unless absolutely necessary, not going to bolt directly to the car service afterwards, it's just a sleep easy type of speaker and the resume, you know, the history, the resume that... so, seven to 10, seven to 10, probably maybe a little bit more names that immediately fall into that category for me.
Josh Linkner 27:20
And Brittanny, same question to you? What do those people do differently? They wake up every morning like, how does their week look differently? How do they interact with you differently? Just what's your observation of what behaviors put somebody in that top 5% category?
Brittanny Kreutzer 27:33
Yeah, I mean, I think it's the little details for me. So, and I'll use a booking as an example, but we could also dive into not bookings, but like, just on the pre-event call, we're partners, right? So they use my name, they talk to me like we're on the same team. Something I don't get a lot anymore is, like a text, like "I'm on-site." Like I don't even know sometimes if my speakers are on-site, where, I think, in the past, speakers used to like text and let me know. If there's a travel problem, I know that they know their flight, and they have a backup and they're not doing the last flight out, so I don't have to stress about that. Spin, like speakers talk about spin a lot, but sometimes after an event, I don't hear a hoot. I'm like, "Well, did anyone reach out?" It's like, "Oh, I had a few people, but it didn't really go anywhere." I'm like, "Well, you know, I'd love to know that, one, to know that people actually are interested. And two, like, so I could maybe help you follow-up." So, like, that communication, and then I just think, in general, like Jeff said, when they reach out, it's really valuable information. It's not like, "Just checking in." You know, like there's some actual value there, and then just developing a relationship, right? Like, really getting to know us. Some of them, I'm developing a friendship, right? It's not just about business, but it's about life. And we become friends through business, so.
Josh Linkner 28:48
I love it, and I know all three of us deeply love the craft, the impact that it can make, the industry. So I know we're not all just doing it for money, but I just wanted to actually talk a little bit about money for a second, because, again, I'm trying to, like, demystify the whole world for those that don't quite understand it. One question I had for you is, Brittanny, we'll stay with you. Overall inflation is up about 20% in the last 10 years. What is your view on the speaking industry? Has the speaking industry kept pace? Is it falling behind? Sort of like, how do you see the speaking economy versus the broader economy?
Brittanny Kreutzer 29:19
Well, I mean, I definitely think the past couple years, speaker fees have gone up a ton. I'm very much of the belief that your fee is not based on how good you are, but it's based on the demand and the lifestyle you want. And I think a lot of speakers are like, "Oh, my value is the number." And that's not true at all. And I do think there's a lot of work available in the 10 to $15,000 range. Everyone jumped ship and went up to like 20 and 25, and there's a lot of clients that have these budgets that are looking for really great talent. I always think, if you get in and you're like this amazing speaker at 15,000 and you're getting the spin and you're working at 10, that sounds like a great life, like even just coming down a little. So fees have gone up. I do see fees, in a way, coming back down. I just think with a lot going on in the economy and stuff like that, people just need to be really open to that. And again, what are your goals? How often do you want to work and don't set that fee as your value ever, because there's so many other factors.
Josh Linkner 30:16
That's so true. Jeff, when do you think is a good time to raise fee and when is a bad time to raise fee?
Jeff Bigelow 30:22
I always tell... I get asked that question a lot by speakers and exactly what Brittanny was just saying. I don't think your fee, what you ask, is only dictated, I think, by demand, and shouldn't be dictated by what you think your value is. So to answer your question to me, it always makes sense to raise the fee January 1. Look at the previous year. How busy were you? Were you too busy? You're on the road a ton. You know, maybe you wanted to do 50 dates, and you did 75 and so maybe you raise your fee January 1. I don't think unless absolutely necessary, meaning you're absolutely crazy, or you're you're on the road way too much, I don't think raising fee even in the middle of the year is a good idea. I think it should really always be January 1 or right around there, when you've had to take a look at the previous year, really assess the business you did, assess the value, assess the demand, and then raise it then. Other than that, I don't think there's really a great other time to do it.
Josh Linkner 31:27
Staying with fee for a second. Brittanny, I did a fee increase recently. I hadn't done it since 2017, figured it was time. It was, you know, relatively modest. I went from 35 to 40. And what I tried to do is I gave everybody a bunch of notice, and then I gave everybody a transition period. It wasn't like, hey, starting tomorrow. It was like, hey, starting starting three months from now, and if any opportunities come in before, then we'll honor the old fee like I tried to be nice about it. I'm sure I made mistakes. But my question to you is, how should a speaker best communicate a fee increase? What are some best and perhaps worst practices to avoid?
Brittanny Kreutzer 31:57
Well, I think just what you said, I mean giving the warning and making sure we can reach out to all of our clients. I mean, from a sales perspective, that's a great opportunity for me to reach out and be like, hey, like, this is going to happen, are you interested? Can you go and talk to your committee or whatever, whoever needs to be done. I had that happen recently with the speaker, and I told them it was coming and they couldn't get their stuff together, and they spent $25,000 more. I mean, the fee increase was massive for the speaker. And they were like, darn it, you know? But it was what it was. So I just think, yeah, communication, giving the warning, it gives us a reason to reach out to those clients. And I think the worst thing you do is you say, "I have a fee increase. It starts today." And, you know, I mean, that's just rude, right? Like, you've got to give a little bit of warning to people, because if you are a finalist in something, you have to think like, there's committees and there's a lot of layers, and sales cycles can be long for us, like three months, four months, and they're looking at a speaker, and then all of a sudden they can't afford them, and they've, you know, reviewed and reviewed and reviewed. So just communicate with your, you know, your agents. If they come to you and they say, "Hey, I'm not gonna be able to make it in that time, could you keep your fee where it is for this client?" I think that's something that should be considered, you know, depending on the situation. So, you know, have a little bit of leeway as the transition happens.
Josh Linkner 33:14
One hundred percent. That's so good. Jeff, I'm a competitive person. I like to win, hate to lose all that. And, you know, I lose my share, by the way, all the time. I often lose to my partners, Peter Sheahan, Ryan Estis and Seth Mattison, more often than you might guess. And of course, we're always teasing each other and poking the bear, and that's kind of fun. But I had a loss recently that hit me. It was down to two speakers, and I lost fair and square, but not to another human being. I lost to an AI robot. They said, "We're going to wheel in a robot, like on a dolly, and the robot's going to do the keynote instead of a human being." And right now, that's obviously a novelty. I'm sure it was kind of cool, or whatever. I'm not too sad about it. But how do you see AI changing the industry? I mean, do you think that we're going to be listening to AI speakers? Do you think AI will just help inform content and help speed up the velocity of people's practices. Because what are you seeing on the tech front of how AI and technology is disrupting our industry?
Jeff Bigelow 34:09
Yeah, excellent question. AI is easily and has been now for a while, the most requested topic for me. I mean, it is absolutely, just probably seven out of 10 proposals, at least, are on AI. So finding the right speaker for that obviously. Losing to a robot is almost something to be proud of, Josh. I'd be like, oh my gosh, the only way Josh Linkner loses is to an AI robot. But how it's changed is what Brittanny said a while ago. It's ChatGBT. For me, it's clients getting information on ChatGBT or through whatever other AI resource, and they think it's accurate and it's not, and it's just a little bit of a hurdle and a hiccup that we have to deal with when they think that your fee is, you know, 5K or 10K and no, it's not really the case. So ChatGPT, I think, because there are, I'm sure you've probably gotten at least a bucket or two just from ChatGPT, because it is, I'm seeing that from other speakers, that they'll get them. So that's definitely I think the way that, the biggest way that AI has affected the industry.
Josh Linkner 35:19
What are you seeing, Brittanny? AI, and then, and more broadly, tech disruption.
Brittanny Kreutzer 35:22
Well, I think AI, the cool thing about it, right, is that you can use it to be faster, more productive. So like, a lot of my speakers have told me, like, "Hey, like, you'll tell me what the client's looking for, and then I will narrow down kind of my topics based on what they're telling you to give you the best information." So I think we can get clients better information with AI. I'll even use it with my own stuff and be like, okay, here are all the speakers' topics. If they want this topic, which one would be best to send to the client, right? So I think we can provide better information to our clients using AI. I think the fear is, will it replace the speaker industry? No, I don't think so. I think there's always that human aspect that can never go away, ever. I think that things we know about speakers, the relationships we have that aren't in the cloud or on Google or in ChatGPT, of working together will always trump that, and no one can know what we know in that way. Yeah, and then just tech, I mean, just obviously using it to our advantage, being faster, I think we are going to be faster. You know, if you don't get back to a client right away, they're going to go find it somewhere else. And so we all have to be on our game of getting back to people quickly.
Brittanny Kreutzer 36:29
Putting your, Brittanny I'll stay with you for a second, putting your crystal ball and your wizard hat on for a second. How do you think the industry is going to look in five years or so? I mean, do you think that people are doing the more automated booking? Do you think that, you know, the industry will become more commoditized? I'm curious to hear your... just forecasting, so I won't hold you to it, but what is your prognostication of how our industry may evolve in the next five years or so?
Brittanny Kreutzer 36:53
I mean, I do think we're going to have to get a little more tech savvy, whether that means, you know, there's always the human element of, you know, maybe, like, clients can drag and drop and make their own proposals, and then you add the flavor to it, or, you know, really, like, they can use our our websites like a ChatGPT, right? So, like, they can search ours, like that. I mean, I think we are going to have to adapt from what we are doing, but there's always the heart of the human in our business, and so I do think that will never change.
Josh Linkner 37:23
Totally agree, Jeff, what are your thoughts? How do you think the industry is going to look in five years?
Jeff Bigelow 37:28
Brittany just hit the nail on the head. I think we're going to have to be more creative. Technology is obviously not going anywhere, and AI is not going anywhere, and we're all going to have to embrace it even more than we already do and use it to our advantage, but much when, I mean, I'm dating myself, because I actually remember when the internet started and, you know, there was a whole thing speakers are like, "Oh my gosh, no one's ever gonna use a bureau again, because they're just gonna Google their names and go directly to their sites." The human element cannot be discounted. You know, you may narrow down your options, but to get the expertise of a Brittanny, or even myself, hopefully, or, you know, to go directly to you Josh and talk to you, the human element is never going to go away. We're going to have to be creative. We're going to have to adjust and maybe change the way we do business, so to speak, but we're always going to be around. People are always going to want to get the human element of the business I think.
Josh Linkner 38:27
What a perfect way to bring our conversation home, because we talked about business and fees and tech and all this stuff, but I really am happy that we ended with the human element, because I'm with two of my favorite humans, not just great business professional, but really wonderful human beings. To close it out, Jeff, I'll toss the question to you first, and then Brittanny, you can bring us home. I'd love to... a very human question, what do you love the most about our industry and what about the least? So maybe start with the least first, so we can end positive. What's the thing, Jeff, that you love the least about our industry, and then the most?
Jeff Bigelow 38:57
Easily the least, Josh, and you would know firsthand, since I had to do this to you last month, is I can't stand the cancelation, my friend. Oh, I hate it. It just, it pains me. And I'm not even talking the economic aspect of it. I'm talking about the going to a friend and telling them, "Hey, this gig is falling off the counter." I will never and nor should anyone ever like that. So that's easily the least for me. What I love the most, 30 years buddy, the gray hair shows how long I've been doing this. I love, I love the industry. I love making an impact. I really feel like that if I can listen to what a client tells me they're looking for, you know, maybe they don't know, and I provide the right speaker that you or somebody else, Ryan, any, you know, any of the excellent speakers out there, they can hit the stage and they can, you know, touch someone's heart and change someone's life. You guys have the ability to change someone's life by the spoken word. And if I can aid in that process in a little way, a little bit, I love it, and that's easily my favorite part of the industry.
Josh Linkner 40:08
Thank you. What a great response. Brittanny, over to you. What's the thing you like the least, and then what's the thing you love the most?
Josh Linkner 40:14
I mean, it's similar to Jeff, I mean, I just, I hate seeing all these speakers work so hard and be so talented and then having to, like, say, "You know, it's a pass, it's a pass you didn't get booked." And seeing the struggle and knowing people are really trying to get out there, when I know how hard they are working. But, stay the course. And then I just like, I just love this business. I think it's changed me for the better. I think it's made me a better human being. I think we're really blessed to be in this industry, and whether we're on the stage or behind the scenes, I feel like I'm helping change the world just one story at a time, and I think that's such a lucky thing, and I know it's like such a thing to say #blessed and all that stuff. But we are really, really blessed, and we should all be very grateful that we get to do what we do.
Josh Linkner 40:59
So true. And yeah, we agree. I mean, words and ideas delivered with passion and precision change the world, and we all get to be in this business, which is pretty cool. Well, speaking of the human edge, just thank you again, Brittanny and Jeff, you are both amazing people, leaders in our industry, doing a lot of great work for and helping people out in a big way. So thanks for your time today, and thanks again for your leadership and inspiration.
Brittanny Kreutzer 41:24
Thank you for all you do, Josh.
Jeff Bigelow 41:26
Yeah, Josh, thank you, buddy. The pleasure was all ours. Thank you so much.
Josh Linkner 41:41
I just love how Jeff and Brittanny kept it real. No sugarcoating, no theoretical nonsense, this was an episode of truth bombs straight from the front lines of the speaking industry. One thing that struck me: Your fee isn't your value. It's a reflection of demand, not ego. That's a mindset shift that every speaker needs to hear, and maybe more importantly, this business, for all its tech and systems, is still deeply human. Relationships matter. Trust matters. The small touches, like texting an agent you're on-site or being prepared for a pre-event call, those stack up. They get remembered. So if you're looking to grow your practice, it's not just about flash, it's about being the speaker they want to book again and again and again. Thanks again to Brittanny and Jeff. We all got a ton of value from today and are grateful for your continued leadership in the industry that we love and for the thousands listening today, catch you next time on Mic Drop. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends, and don't forget to give us a five-star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next Mic Drop moment.